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Thank you, Microsoft

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  • L Lost User

    About two weeks ago I suggested to my boss that we move all new development over to WPF/Silverlight. I purchased books and installed VS2010 along with the .NET 4 Framework. I've been working on learning the basics of Silverlight over the past two weeks and so far I love the technology. It appears that anything is possible. Today my boss put a print version of this article on my desk: http://www.infoworld.com/t/html5/microsoft-surrenders-silverlight-html5-cross-platform-front-654 Given the clarifications Microsoft has made so far I think the article is ignorant. Irresponsible reporting aside, none of this changes that fact I've been put in a less than ideal situation. Part of the problem is that the life cycle on so many products is getting to be ridiculous. New technologies/methodologies arise quickly, enjoy 15 minutes of fame, and then disappear. My view on this is best illustrated by my actions: I waited until Silverlight 4 to even look at the technology. WPF and Silverlight required a huge investment of time to master. The time involved makes learning "the hottest" every 18 months a foolish waste of time. I don't want VS 2012. I don't want Silverlight 5. I don't want HTML 5. I want a standard IDE that I can use long enough to master and enjoy without three new versions of a platform being introduced while I've yet to complete a project in the original. If they'd slow down a bit and allow a user base to develop maybe they'd enjoy more success. A development life cycle that seems to be driven more by panic than need will destroy adoption. I realize thing are competative, but if the development community is contantly playing catch up I cannot help but feel many of them will get tired and go someplace less dynamic. Where I work we have a 30+ year old mainframe that still does it's job. While we'll never get that from Microsoft I'd settle for something that lasts 5 years.

    R Offline
    R Offline
    realJSOP
    wrote on last edited by
    #6

    MehGerbil wrote:

    It appears that anything is possible.

    Ahhhh, fresh-faced programmers always seem so impressionable and full of hope. And then...

    MehGerbil wrote:

    Today my boss put a print version of this article on my desk:

    Reality comes crashing down on them, killing their dreams, dashing previously held assumptions and beliefs over the rocky cliffs of dispair, making them rethink their liberal view of firearms ownership, if only long wenough to "teach those bastards in Redmond a lesson the won't soon forget". Welcome to hell, young Jedi. I have ammunition older than most Microsoft tech, and it's still viable.

    .45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
    -----
    "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
    -----
    "The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001

    L R 2 Replies Last reply
    0
    • L Lost User

      About two weeks ago I suggested to my boss that we move all new development over to WPF/Silverlight. I purchased books and installed VS2010 along with the .NET 4 Framework. I've been working on learning the basics of Silverlight over the past two weeks and so far I love the technology. It appears that anything is possible. Today my boss put a print version of this article on my desk: http://www.infoworld.com/t/html5/microsoft-surrenders-silverlight-html5-cross-platform-front-654 Given the clarifications Microsoft has made so far I think the article is ignorant. Irresponsible reporting aside, none of this changes that fact I've been put in a less than ideal situation. Part of the problem is that the life cycle on so many products is getting to be ridiculous. New technologies/methodologies arise quickly, enjoy 15 minutes of fame, and then disappear. My view on this is best illustrated by my actions: I waited until Silverlight 4 to even look at the technology. WPF and Silverlight required a huge investment of time to master. The time involved makes learning "the hottest" every 18 months a foolish waste of time. I don't want VS 2012. I don't want Silverlight 5. I don't want HTML 5. I want a standard IDE that I can use long enough to master and enjoy without three new versions of a platform being introduced while I've yet to complete a project in the original. If they'd slow down a bit and allow a user base to develop maybe they'd enjoy more success. A development life cycle that seems to be driven more by panic than need will destroy adoption. I realize thing are competative, but if the development community is contantly playing catch up I cannot help but feel many of them will get tired and go someplace less dynamic. Where I work we have a 30+ year old mainframe that still does it's job. While we'll never get that from Microsoft I'd settle for something that lasts 5 years.

      N Offline
      N Offline
      Nemanja Trifunovic
      wrote on last edited by
      #7

      MehGerbil wrote:

      While we'll never get that from Microsoft I'd settle for something that lasts 5 years.

      Win32 API has been around for at least 15 years and works just fine. Ditto for COM (not that I am a big fan of it).

      utf8-cpp

      modified on Thursday, November 4, 2010 10:53 AM

      J 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • R Richard A Dalton

        On a different but very related issue... I realised something was wrong the day I (with a decade and a half as a Microsoft developer) needed to ask someone where the 'Save As' option was in the new version of Word. I still find myself wasting time trying to figure out how to do things I've been able to do for years with previous versions. I thought it was early signs of old age, but yesterday I saw a gathering huddled around a PC trying to figure out how to Print Preview. Somebody in Redmond needs to have a Wireless Keyboard shoved so far up their ass that they can type their resignation letter with their tonsils. -Rd

        Hit any user to continue.

        Y Offline
        Y Offline
        Your Display Name Here
        wrote on last edited by
        #8

        Agreed, all legacy Office code in my opinion is junk. They spruce it up by adding pretty views, but then confuse us by hiding stuff. In ten years we'll be pissed that they changed Office 2010.. Office needs a complete rewrite with .NET wrappers. None of this COM B.S. :)

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • Y Your Display Name Here

          Be careful how you feel and think about new technology. In 1992, I was a mid-range, mainframe bigot. Their mode of communciation back then was SNA. SNA had built in routing (mostly in the APPC world via static configuration), but it also had dynamic routing via it's cousin APPN. I had heard noises about TCP and the Internet back then and a little company named Cisco who sold a piece of hardare called a router. The whole idea of the router was to dynamically link peers for the sake of communication. I dismissed it as a novelty because the Mid-Ranges and MainFrames so domminant back then did not need a separate piece of hardware to establish inter computer communications. Fast forward to 2010. Today we see nothing but Routers handling 98% of all computer communications. The mid-ranges and main-frames all now support TCP as the primary protocol of choice and hook directly to the internet which routes packets by a piece of hardware called a router made almost exclusively by Cisco. My bigotry stopped me from buying $8.00 Cisco stock, so in a sense I lost a fortune over this. The other thing I learned is that when a company makes an internal descision to turn to another technology, often the developers and end users are the last to know. The reason they do this is to keep everyone that bought into their now legacy solutions happy. They will intentionally delay sunsetting products for those that invested in legacy solutions. The early adopters that caught the first wave are now company heros for having 5 years experience before anyone realizes what has transpired. I'm not Javascript fan, but HTML 5 and Javascript appear to be taking over the world. :)

          R Offline
          R Offline
          Richard A Dalton
          wrote on last edited by
          #9

          xzz0195 wrote:

          The other thing I learned is that when a company makes an internal descision to turn to another technology, often the developers and end users are the last to know.

          Yep. Like the time I shelled out good money to fly to London to attend VBITS (not for the first time_. I sat there happily hearing all about VB7. Within a few weeks .Net was announced. At no point during VBITS did anyone mention the earthquake that was about to hit Microsoft Developers. That's the kind of stuff that would be nice to hear about .. and oh I don't know ... discuss ... when you pay to attend a conference which is effectively a couple of days worth of Infomercial for Microsoft. I haven't attended a similar conference since. I get actual valuable results from Developer Days and Meetups, most of which are free. -Richard

          Hit any user to continue.

          L 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • R realJSOP

            MehGerbil wrote:

            It appears that anything is possible.

            Ahhhh, fresh-faced programmers always seem so impressionable and full of hope. And then...

            MehGerbil wrote:

            Today my boss put a print version of this article on my desk:

            Reality comes crashing down on them, killing their dreams, dashing previously held assumptions and beliefs over the rocky cliffs of dispair, making them rethink their liberal view of firearms ownership, if only long wenough to "teach those bastards in Redmond a lesson the won't soon forget". Welcome to hell, young Jedi. I have ammunition older than most Microsoft tech, and it's still viable.

            .45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
            -----
            "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
            -----
            "The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001

            L Offline
            L Offline
            Lost User
            wrote on last edited by
            #10

            I was the one that introduced .NET to our office 8 years ago. I remember during my interview I asked if I could write any application they gave me in .NET. When I arrived for my first day of work I had a shrink wrapped copy of Visual Studio on my desk. Nobody there had ever tried using .NET so I was sort of a test case. After the first .NET application went live I led a war against Foxpro and all the other hob-nob tools in the office. We replaced legacy after legacy so that now everything is in .NET and working great. I also moved everyone over from VB to C#. My orginal application is still going strong. I've still not won the war against the horror known as "Access". The point is that the success of .NET has had an impact on my credibility. Had the technology failed in 2005 I don't know if I'd still be employed. So after waiting patiently for Silverlight to mature (all the way to 4.0) I decided to take a risk and make another big move. Instead of support I'm now getting blowback. Well, credibility was nice while it lasted.

            R K M 3 Replies Last reply
            0
            • R Richard A Dalton

              xzz0195 wrote:

              The other thing I learned is that when a company makes an internal descision to turn to another technology, often the developers and end users are the last to know.

              Yep. Like the time I shelled out good money to fly to London to attend VBITS (not for the first time_. I sat there happily hearing all about VB7. Within a few weeks .Net was announced. At no point during VBITS did anyone mention the earthquake that was about to hit Microsoft Developers. That's the kind of stuff that would be nice to hear about .. and oh I don't know ... discuss ... when you pay to attend a conference which is effectively a couple of days worth of Infomercial for Microsoft. I haven't attended a similar conference since. I get actual valuable results from Developer Days and Meetups, most of which are free. -Richard

              Hit any user to continue.

              L Offline
              L Offline
              Lost User
              wrote on last edited by
              #11

              VB.NET wasn't VB7 ;P

              H 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • R Richard A Dalton

                On a different but very related issue... I realised something was wrong the day I (with a decade and a half as a Microsoft developer) needed to ask someone where the 'Save As' option was in the new version of Word. I still find myself wasting time trying to figure out how to do things I've been able to do for years with previous versions. I thought it was early signs of old age, but yesterday I saw a gathering huddled around a PC trying to figure out how to Print Preview. Somebody in Redmond needs to have a Wireless Keyboard shoved so far up their ass that they can type their resignation letter with their tonsils. -Rd

                Hit any user to continue.

                W Offline
                W Offline
                wout de zeeuw
                wrote on last edited by
                #12

                Richard A. Dalton wrote:

                Wireless Keyboard

                I can recommend the Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000. :laugh:

                Wout

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • L Lost User

                  I was the one that introduced .NET to our office 8 years ago. I remember during my interview I asked if I could write any application they gave me in .NET. When I arrived for my first day of work I had a shrink wrapped copy of Visual Studio on my desk. Nobody there had ever tried using .NET so I was sort of a test case. After the first .NET application went live I led a war against Foxpro and all the other hob-nob tools in the office. We replaced legacy after legacy so that now everything is in .NET and working great. I also moved everyone over from VB to C#. My orginal application is still going strong. I've still not won the war against the horror known as "Access". The point is that the success of .NET has had an impact on my credibility. Had the technology failed in 2005 I don't know if I'd still be employed. So after waiting patiently for Silverlight to mature (all the way to 4.0) I decided to take a risk and make another big move. Instead of support I'm now getting blowback. Well, credibility was nice while it lasted.

                  R Offline
                  R Offline
                  realJSOP
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #13

                  Just tell your boss that regardless of Microsoft's plans (real or imagined), Silverlight 4 is still a viable platform. I convinced my boss to move from flash/flex to Silverlight/C#, and it's going okay. We're waiting for approval to move to SL4 so we can make use of the "rich text" control.

                  .45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
                  -----
                  "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
                  -----
                  "The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • L Lost User

                    VB.NET wasn't VB7 ;P

                    H Offline
                    H Offline
                    Henry Minute
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #14

                    Read it again.

                    MehGerbil wrote:

                    VB.NET wasn't VB7 Poke tongue

                    That's what he said. MS were pushing VB7 whilst they already had .NET ready for release.

                    Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”

                    R 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • L Lost User

                      I was the one that introduced .NET to our office 8 years ago. I remember during my interview I asked if I could write any application they gave me in .NET. When I arrived for my first day of work I had a shrink wrapped copy of Visual Studio on my desk. Nobody there had ever tried using .NET so I was sort of a test case. After the first .NET application went live I led a war against Foxpro and all the other hob-nob tools in the office. We replaced legacy after legacy so that now everything is in .NET and working great. I also moved everyone over from VB to C#. My orginal application is still going strong. I've still not won the war against the horror known as "Access". The point is that the success of .NET has had an impact on my credibility. Had the technology failed in 2005 I don't know if I'd still be employed. So after waiting patiently for Silverlight to mature (all the way to 4.0) I decided to take a risk and make another big move. Instead of support I'm now getting blowback. Well, credibility was nice while it lasted.

                      K Offline
                      K Offline
                      Kevin Marois
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #15

                      While I agree with everything you've said, and followed the same mantra, I will argue about your "against Foxpro and all the other hob-nob tools ". FoxPro is/was a great tool and is till used by manu many shops out there. I spend 15 years as a Fox/VFP developer until I switched to C#. Now I love .Net, but anyonw who's done any real work with VFP knows the power of it.

                      Everything makes sense in someone's mind

                      M 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • L Lost User

                        About two weeks ago I suggested to my boss that we move all new development over to WPF/Silverlight. I purchased books and installed VS2010 along with the .NET 4 Framework. I've been working on learning the basics of Silverlight over the past two weeks and so far I love the technology. It appears that anything is possible. Today my boss put a print version of this article on my desk: http://www.infoworld.com/t/html5/microsoft-surrenders-silverlight-html5-cross-platform-front-654 Given the clarifications Microsoft has made so far I think the article is ignorant. Irresponsible reporting aside, none of this changes that fact I've been put in a less than ideal situation. Part of the problem is that the life cycle on so many products is getting to be ridiculous. New technologies/methodologies arise quickly, enjoy 15 minutes of fame, and then disappear. My view on this is best illustrated by my actions: I waited until Silverlight 4 to even look at the technology. WPF and Silverlight required a huge investment of time to master. The time involved makes learning "the hottest" every 18 months a foolish waste of time. I don't want VS 2012. I don't want Silverlight 5. I don't want HTML 5. I want a standard IDE that I can use long enough to master and enjoy without three new versions of a platform being introduced while I've yet to complete a project in the original. If they'd slow down a bit and allow a user base to develop maybe they'd enjoy more success. A development life cycle that seems to be driven more by panic than need will destroy adoption. I realize thing are competative, but if the development community is contantly playing catch up I cannot help but feel many of them will get tired and go someplace less dynamic. Where I work we have a 30+ year old mainframe that still does it's job. While we'll never get that from Microsoft I'd settle for something that lasts 5 years.

                        T Offline
                        T Offline
                        tomonthebay
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #16

                        My point exactly!!!' I have been coding for 25 plus years and every time I open a "new and better" version of something I get this very sad feeling that we really have not progressed much. Recently setting up an ODBC connection (for the gazillionth time) and reading the MS help is like reading a latin translation of a Led Zeppelin song in Chinese’s. Other than Android is there ANYTHING NEW OUT THERE... Why cant my cell phone make coffee or something!! New technology..Big deal, it can send and receive text/verbal messages and tell me where I am. I want a paradigm shift!

                        A 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • H Henry Minute

                          Read it again.

                          MehGerbil wrote:

                          VB.NET wasn't VB7 Poke tongue

                          That's what he said. MS were pushing VB7 whilst they already had .NET ready for release.

                          Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”

                          R Offline
                          R Offline
                          Richard A Dalton
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #17

                          Henry Minute wrote:

                          MehGerbil wrote: VB.NET wasn't VB7 Poke tongue That's what he said. MS were pushing VB7 whilst they already had .NET ready for release.

                          Yep. What he said. Also....VB.Net WAS VB7 Just like VB2008 is VB9 Not that any of us take the version number seriously, but the version numbers are still in there. -Richard

                          Hit any user to continue.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • L Lost User

                            About two weeks ago I suggested to my boss that we move all new development over to WPF/Silverlight. I purchased books and installed VS2010 along with the .NET 4 Framework. I've been working on learning the basics of Silverlight over the past two weeks and so far I love the technology. It appears that anything is possible. Today my boss put a print version of this article on my desk: http://www.infoworld.com/t/html5/microsoft-surrenders-silverlight-html5-cross-platform-front-654 Given the clarifications Microsoft has made so far I think the article is ignorant. Irresponsible reporting aside, none of this changes that fact I've been put in a less than ideal situation. Part of the problem is that the life cycle on so many products is getting to be ridiculous. New technologies/methodologies arise quickly, enjoy 15 minutes of fame, and then disappear. My view on this is best illustrated by my actions: I waited until Silverlight 4 to even look at the technology. WPF and Silverlight required a huge investment of time to master. The time involved makes learning "the hottest" every 18 months a foolish waste of time. I don't want VS 2012. I don't want Silverlight 5. I don't want HTML 5. I want a standard IDE that I can use long enough to master and enjoy without three new versions of a platform being introduced while I've yet to complete a project in the original. If they'd slow down a bit and allow a user base to develop maybe they'd enjoy more success. A development life cycle that seems to be driven more by panic than need will destroy adoption. I realize thing are competative, but if the development community is contantly playing catch up I cannot help but feel many of them will get tired and go someplace less dynamic. Where I work we have a 30+ year old mainframe that still does it's job. While we'll never get that from Microsoft I'd settle for something that lasts 5 years.

                            R Offline
                            R Offline
                            Ravi Sant
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #18

                            you sound like my boss now...

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • L Lost User

                              About two weeks ago I suggested to my boss that we move all new development over to WPF/Silverlight. I purchased books and installed VS2010 along with the .NET 4 Framework. I've been working on learning the basics of Silverlight over the past two weeks and so far I love the technology. It appears that anything is possible. Today my boss put a print version of this article on my desk: http://www.infoworld.com/t/html5/microsoft-surrenders-silverlight-html5-cross-platform-front-654 Given the clarifications Microsoft has made so far I think the article is ignorant. Irresponsible reporting aside, none of this changes that fact I've been put in a less than ideal situation. Part of the problem is that the life cycle on so many products is getting to be ridiculous. New technologies/methodologies arise quickly, enjoy 15 minutes of fame, and then disappear. My view on this is best illustrated by my actions: I waited until Silverlight 4 to even look at the technology. WPF and Silverlight required a huge investment of time to master. The time involved makes learning "the hottest" every 18 months a foolish waste of time. I don't want VS 2012. I don't want Silverlight 5. I don't want HTML 5. I want a standard IDE that I can use long enough to master and enjoy without three new versions of a platform being introduced while I've yet to complete a project in the original. If they'd slow down a bit and allow a user base to develop maybe they'd enjoy more success. A development life cycle that seems to be driven more by panic than need will destroy adoption. I realize thing are competative, but if the development community is contantly playing catch up I cannot help but feel many of them will get tired and go someplace less dynamic. Where I work we have a 30+ year old mainframe that still does it's job. While we'll never get that from Microsoft I'd settle for something that lasts 5 years.

                              D Offline
                              D Offline
                              Dave Parker
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #19

                              Same really. I'd rather they'd just release something and then concentrate on service packs that fix the bugs etc for a while, maybe with the odd new version that finishes off some of the incomplete bits. As it is the bugs never get fixed and the software is replaced by something totally new a couple of years later, which has its own set of bugs that never get fixed and missing important features etc.

                              A 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • L Lost User

                                About two weeks ago I suggested to my boss that we move all new development over to WPF/Silverlight. I purchased books and installed VS2010 along with the .NET 4 Framework. I've been working on learning the basics of Silverlight over the past two weeks and so far I love the technology. It appears that anything is possible. Today my boss put a print version of this article on my desk: http://www.infoworld.com/t/html5/microsoft-surrenders-silverlight-html5-cross-platform-front-654 Given the clarifications Microsoft has made so far I think the article is ignorant. Irresponsible reporting aside, none of this changes that fact I've been put in a less than ideal situation. Part of the problem is that the life cycle on so many products is getting to be ridiculous. New technologies/methodologies arise quickly, enjoy 15 minutes of fame, and then disappear. My view on this is best illustrated by my actions: I waited until Silverlight 4 to even look at the technology. WPF and Silverlight required a huge investment of time to master. The time involved makes learning "the hottest" every 18 months a foolish waste of time. I don't want VS 2012. I don't want Silverlight 5. I don't want HTML 5. I want a standard IDE that I can use long enough to master and enjoy without three new versions of a platform being introduced while I've yet to complete a project in the original. If they'd slow down a bit and allow a user base to develop maybe they'd enjoy more success. A development life cycle that seems to be driven more by panic than need will destroy adoption. I realize thing are competative, but if the development community is contantly playing catch up I cannot help but feel many of them will get tired and go someplace less dynamic. Where I work we have a 30+ year old mainframe that still does it's job. While we'll never get that from Microsoft I'd settle for something that lasts 5 years.

                                M Offline
                                M Offline
                                Member 96
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #20

                                Wow a real life example exactly illustrating my point of why the original statements and lukewarm retraction were such a calamity for Silverlight. I've become convinced that in fact it's a safe platform to bet on but your situation illustrates perfectly why it could become a sort of self fulfilling prophecy in a world where perception can quickly become reality.


                                “If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea” - Antoine de Saint-Exupery

                                R 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • M Marc Clifton

                                  Yesterday, goldfish, today, pawns. You have to realize that we developers are merely pawns in Microsoft's chess game to market its real meat and potatoes product, namely Windows and secondly, Office. The reason being, the more sexy products we develop for those platforms, and the more we develop stuff that looks and feels like whatever Microsoft's current fancy is (ribbon bars, what a crock of crap), the more the naive consumer will say, wow, look at all those nice shiny apps, or something to that effect. So, the sooner you realize you are a pawn, the sooner you can free yourself of the game. Consider the difference: WPF, Silverlight, C#, F#, .NET, Visual Studio, are all pieces in Microsoft's chess game. HTML 5? There is no "product" that this technology is pushing--it's agnostic, and even more insidious to some, it's not directly connected with profit. Microsoft hates that with a passion because it leads to free thinking and free thinking leads to free action. Microsoft wants you all under the yoke of making money for Microsoft. Marc

                                  M Offline
                                  M Offline
                                  Member 96
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #21

                                  Nahh.. the goldfish post was your zenith I think. ;)


                                  “If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea” - Antoine de Saint-Exupery

                                  M 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • L Lost User

                                    I was the one that introduced .NET to our office 8 years ago. I remember during my interview I asked if I could write any application they gave me in .NET. When I arrived for my first day of work I had a shrink wrapped copy of Visual Studio on my desk. Nobody there had ever tried using .NET so I was sort of a test case. After the first .NET application went live I led a war against Foxpro and all the other hob-nob tools in the office. We replaced legacy after legacy so that now everything is in .NET and working great. I also moved everyone over from VB to C#. My orginal application is still going strong. I've still not won the war against the horror known as "Access". The point is that the success of .NET has had an impact on my credibility. Had the technology failed in 2005 I don't know if I'd still be employed. So after waiting patiently for Silverlight to mature (all the way to 4.0) I decided to take a risk and make another big move. Instead of support I'm now getting blowback. Well, credibility was nice while it lasted.

                                    M Offline
                                    M Offline
                                    Member 96
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #22

                                    Well to be fair Silverlight is still going strong and the furore will die down soon but as a fellow .net developer with a huge .net codebase already written, tested and alive in the real world for thousands of users I would be a mad man to not go the WPF / Silverlight route for new UI's going forward so I think you made the right decision, you just have to gut through it for the next little while. I felt as you do a couple of days ago but I've since come to see it as nothing more than a huge fuck up by a person at Microsoft that should know better if he holds such a position and a bad response when the shit hit the fan by Microsoft but the reality is nothing has changed from when you recommended it. I've been developing for well over 20 years now and the one thing I learned over that time is that nothing you learn or code with will be around for long anyway, it's like being on a treadmill running the wrong way until the day you decide to retire. Don't fall in love with any technology and keep your eyes on the bleeding edge but don't be the first to adopt if you want to stay relevant.


                                    “If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea” - Antoine de Saint-Exupery

                                    1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • K Kevin Marois

                                      While I agree with everything you've said, and followed the same mantra, I will argue about your "against Foxpro and all the other hob-nob tools ". FoxPro is/was a great tool and is till used by manu many shops out there. I spend 15 years as a Fox/VFP developer until I switched to C#. Now I love .Net, but anyonw who's done any real work with VFP knows the power of it.

                                      Everything makes sense in someone's mind

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                                      M Offline
                                      Member 96
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #23

                                      Um..I have done a lot of real work with Foxpro and it's as dead as the parrot in that Monty Python sketch. It was a tool for the time it was in but the world has moved on in just about every way imagineable since then. Don't get me wrong there's no reason any business app made today couldn't be made today in even an old copy of Foxpro but it just doesn't cut it for what people have come to expect out of an app.


                                      “If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea” - Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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                                      • N Nemanja Trifunovic

                                        MehGerbil wrote:

                                        While we'll never get that from Microsoft I'd settle for something that lasts 5 years.

                                        Win32 API has been around for at least 15 years and works just fine. Ditto for COM (not that I am a big fan of it).

                                        utf8-cpp

                                        modified on Thursday, November 4, 2010 10:53 AM

                                        J Offline
                                        J Offline
                                        Johann Gerell
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #24

                                        Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:

                                        Win32 API has been around for at least 15 years and works just fine.

                                        Amen!

                                        Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time - Bertrand Russel

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                                        • L Lost User

                                          About two weeks ago I suggested to my boss that we move all new development over to WPF/Silverlight. I purchased books and installed VS2010 along with the .NET 4 Framework. I've been working on learning the basics of Silverlight over the past two weeks and so far I love the technology. It appears that anything is possible. Today my boss put a print version of this article on my desk: http://www.infoworld.com/t/html5/microsoft-surrenders-silverlight-html5-cross-platform-front-654 Given the clarifications Microsoft has made so far I think the article is ignorant. Irresponsible reporting aside, none of this changes that fact I've been put in a less than ideal situation. Part of the problem is that the life cycle on so many products is getting to be ridiculous. New technologies/methodologies arise quickly, enjoy 15 minutes of fame, and then disappear. My view on this is best illustrated by my actions: I waited until Silverlight 4 to even look at the technology. WPF and Silverlight required a huge investment of time to master. The time involved makes learning "the hottest" every 18 months a foolish waste of time. I don't want VS 2012. I don't want Silverlight 5. I don't want HTML 5. I want a standard IDE that I can use long enough to master and enjoy without three new versions of a platform being introduced while I've yet to complete a project in the original. If they'd slow down a bit and allow a user base to develop maybe they'd enjoy more success. A development life cycle that seems to be driven more by panic than need will destroy adoption. I realize thing are competative, but if the development community is contantly playing catch up I cannot help but feel many of them will get tired and go someplace less dynamic. Where I work we have a 30+ year old mainframe that still does it's job. While we'll never get that from Microsoft I'd settle for something that lasts 5 years.

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                                          A Offline
                                          AmazingAndrex
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #25

                                          I can't say I feel very sorry for Silverlight developers right now. They have staked their livelihood on a single company's whims, a company mind you that has a storied history of changing its mind whenever it pleases. "Oh wow, Win32! Time to-" "Err, .NET is in now? Well OK, let's-" "Oh, WPF? I guess that makes since with Vista-" "Silverlight? Really?!" Just to give some examples of how spastic their desktop development toolchain has been. You may as well buck up and learn HTML/JavaScript because that stuff is proven, platform/company-agnostic, and is only going to grow in the future. Now I'm also a bit of an open web app zealot but I wasn't always that way. I still use Windows and I've always loved C#'s syntax and features - I just wouldn't stake my job on them given the choice.

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