So how *do* you find contracts?
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Following on from Richard's thread below about recruitment agencies in the UK: I also recently started looking for a new contract and am already becoming quite disillusioned. The jobs advertised by agencies on boards like CWJobs seem to be the bottom of the barrel, unless you want to work in the City. Or if you are a junior ASP.NET developer and happy to work for £25 / hour. I suspect that most interesting senior roles are filled by recommendations from previous colleagues - is this right? Apart from one recent contract ( found through a friend ) I've been working for myself for ten years, so I'm a bit short on contacts. I'm trying to look at it from the other side: how would a company that needs an experienced C# developer go about finding one? I am sure companies see recruitment agencies as a last resort too. Any ideas / experiences? Nick
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Following on from Richard's thread below about recruitment agencies in the UK: I also recently started looking for a new contract and am already becoming quite disillusioned. The jobs advertised by agencies on boards like CWJobs seem to be the bottom of the barrel, unless you want to work in the City. Or if you are a junior ASP.NET developer and happy to work for £25 / hour. I suspect that most interesting senior roles are filled by recommendations from previous colleagues - is this right? Apart from one recent contract ( found through a friend ) I've been working for myself for ten years, so I'm a bit short on contacts. I'm trying to look at it from the other side: how would a company that needs an experienced C# developer go about finding one? I am sure companies see recruitment agencies as a last resort too. Any ideas / experiences? Nick
I found my first contract with an agency and it's a peach. £40 an hour and a very interesting place to work. Maybe I got lucky.
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Following on from Richard's thread below about recruitment agencies in the UK: I also recently started looking for a new contract and am already becoming quite disillusioned. The jobs advertised by agencies on boards like CWJobs seem to be the bottom of the barrel, unless you want to work in the City. Or if you are a junior ASP.NET developer and happy to work for £25 / hour. I suspect that most interesting senior roles are filled by recommendations from previous colleagues - is this right? Apart from one recent contract ( found through a friend ) I've been working for myself for ten years, so I'm a bit short on contacts. I'm trying to look at it from the other side: how would a company that needs an experienced C# developer go about finding one? I am sure companies see recruitment agencies as a last resort too. Any ideas / experiences? Nick
A while back, I posted about how we were currently in a recruiters market and got a lot of negative comments back from people unhappy that I pointed out that employers hold the whip hand at the moment. The problem, here in the UK, is that there have been a lot of very skilled permanent developers forced out of jobs who are happy to take low paid contract jobs just to have money coming in. This harsh reality seems to have slipped several of the posters by, and is only getting worse.
Nicholas Butler wrote:
I'm trying to look at it from the other side: how would a company that needs an experienced C# developer go about finding one?
It depends on the size of the company. Some companies are happy to have a dedicated recruitment team sieving through candidates, but the vast majority just don't have the time or contacts to do this, and will use recruiters to take the pain away from them.
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
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Following on from Richard's thread below about recruitment agencies in the UK: I also recently started looking for a new contract and am already becoming quite disillusioned. The jobs advertised by agencies on boards like CWJobs seem to be the bottom of the barrel, unless you want to work in the City. Or if you are a junior ASP.NET developer and happy to work for £25 / hour. I suspect that most interesting senior roles are filled by recommendations from previous colleagues - is this right? Apart from one recent contract ( found through a friend ) I've been working for myself for ten years, so I'm a bit short on contacts. I'm trying to look at it from the other side: how would a company that needs an experienced C# developer go about finding one? I am sure companies see recruitment agencies as a last resort too. Any ideas / experiences? Nick
Every job I have gotten in the last 10 years (all my programming roles) has been through contacts, initially a friend who knew his company was looking for someone to do IT stuff and knew that was sort of what I did, ever since it has been through people who had left and gone somewhere else or who worked with me on specific projects from other companies. So that is not much use.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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I found my first contract with an agency and it's a peach. £40 an hour and a very interesting place to work. Maybe I got lucky.
Good for you :) Did you send your CV to a load of agencies, or just monitor the job boards? Nick
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A while back, I posted about how we were currently in a recruiters market and got a lot of negative comments back from people unhappy that I pointed out that employers hold the whip hand at the moment. The problem, here in the UK, is that there have been a lot of very skilled permanent developers forced out of jobs who are happy to take low paid contract jobs just to have money coming in. This harsh reality seems to have slipped several of the posters by, and is only getting worse.
Nicholas Butler wrote:
I'm trying to look at it from the other side: how would a company that needs an experienced C# developer go about finding one?
It depends on the size of the company. Some companies are happy to have a dedicated recruitment team sieving through candidates, but the vast majority just don't have the time or contacts to do this, and will use recruiters to take the pain away from them.
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
A while back, I posted about how we were currently in a recruiters market
From what I've seen in the last week or so, I believe you! Apart from in the City - the banks seem to be the only ones doing well :^) Pete: as an employer, how would you react to direct enquiries from a candidate? I've been thinking about finding the MS-centric ISV's in the area and contacting them directly... Nick
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Every job I have gotten in the last 10 years (all my programming roles) has been through contacts, initially a friend who knew his company was looking for someone to do IT stuff and knew that was sort of what I did, ever since it has been through people who had left and gone somewhere else or who worked with me on specific projects from other companies. So that is not much use.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
That is useful, thanks - backs up my suspicions why the advertised jobs are less than appealing. Nick
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
A while back, I posted about how we were currently in a recruiters market
From what I've seen in the last week or so, I believe you! Apart from in the City - the banks seem to be the only ones doing well :^) Pete: as an employer, how would you react to direct enquiries from a candidate? I've been thinking about finding the MS-centric ISV's in the area and contacting them directly... Nick
I don't mind. Even when I'm not actively recruiting, it could be that a CV comes across my desk that's so good that I either open up a post for the applicant, or keep it for when I am recruiting. Whereabouts are you looking for work?
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
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I don't mind. Even when I'm not actively recruiting, it could be that a CV comes across my desk that's so good that I either open up a post for the applicant, or keep it for when I am recruiting. Whereabouts are you looking for work?
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
Even when I'm not actively recruiting, it could be that a CV comes across my desk that's so good that I either open up a post for the applicant, or keep it for when I am recruiting.
That's encouraging - I think I'll give that a go next.
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
Whereabouts are you looking for work?
I'm near Bournemouth on the Dorset South Coast. A bit too far to commute to London every day! There are quite a few software companies around, but a lot of them ( including one of my neighbours ) are just little web design agencies. I'd like to get my mind into something a little more meaty :) Nick
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That is useful, thanks - backs up my suspicions why the advertised jobs are less than appealing. Nick
I got a job a few years ago after talking to an ex-colleague for a few weeks by e-mail after he had spotted me across a tube station and then mailed to say so a few days later. They were hoping for funding for a new position then when they got it I went in, had a chat with his boss and a look around then they offered me the job. Next day he phoned me to say that as they hadn't advertised the job internally yet they could not offer it to me, and I would have to wait a few weeks for the offer to come through. So that job never became publicly available. The last few places I have worked they tend to be seriously penny pinching so when expanding (as we continue to do) they look for graduates with the idea that they can then be trained up in our image without any annoying habits to get out of them. Which I don't think ever works properly cos you tend to just keep doing the same things wrong, and teach the new people those same bad habits.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
Even when I'm not actively recruiting, it could be that a CV comes across my desk that's so good that I either open up a post for the applicant, or keep it for when I am recruiting.
That's encouraging - I think I'll give that a go next.
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
Whereabouts are you looking for work?
I'm near Bournemouth on the Dorset South Coast. A bit too far to commute to London every day! There are quite a few software companies around, but a lot of them ( including one of my neighbours ) are just little web design agencies. I'd like to get my mind into something a little more meaty :) Nick
What is the market like down Bournemouth/Poole/Dorset/Southampton way? We are looking at relocating the family down that way in the future... At present I could relocate to a different office with the same company, but I want to hedge my bets on locations if you know what I mean...
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That is useful, thanks - backs up my suspicions why the advertised jobs are less than appealing. Nick
Bournemouth Uni were advertising a post a few months ago via an agency, but it sounded a bit "too good to be true" both perks and salary wise, so I didnt go any further with it Whenever I read an agency advert, if it sounds "too good to be true" its most likely not 100% true... (from bitter experience) and they are just trolling for candidates
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What is the market like down Bournemouth/Poole/Dorset/Southampton way? We are looking at relocating the family down that way in the future... At present I could relocate to a different office with the same company, but I want to hedge my bets on locations if you know what I mean...
Argyle4Ever wrote:
What is the market like down Bournemouth/Poole/Dorset/Southampton way?
I don't know about Southampton as I've only been here a year or so ( from Oxford ). In Bournemouth, from what I've seen recently, it's like Pete said: it's a buyer's market outside London at the moment. There are jobs here, but not as many real software companies as in the Thames Valley. A couple of the banks have offices here, but they are paying half London rates. My last contract was with a marketing company that had a small ( 4 developers ) software department.
Argyle4Ever wrote:
We are looking at relocating the family down that way in the future...
Aside from work, living here is great! We're certainly "Loving life in the South" ( local radio slogan ) :) Nick
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Following on from Richard's thread below about recruitment agencies in the UK: I also recently started looking for a new contract and am already becoming quite disillusioned. The jobs advertised by agencies on boards like CWJobs seem to be the bottom of the barrel, unless you want to work in the City. Or if you are a junior ASP.NET developer and happy to work for £25 / hour. I suspect that most interesting senior roles are filled by recommendations from previous colleagues - is this right? Apart from one recent contract ( found through a friend ) I've been working for myself for ten years, so I'm a bit short on contacts. I'm trying to look at it from the other side: how would a company that needs an experienced C# developer go about finding one? I am sure companies see recruitment agencies as a last resort too. Any ideas / experiences? Nick
I look under a rock.
Because that's where all the agents live.
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Good for you :) Did you send your CV to a load of agencies, or just monitor the job boards? Nick
I posted my CV to Monster and CWJobs. I found the job quite quickly but then my employer has struggled to find people with the experience they require (C++/Qt). There are also a fair amount of permanent jobs available but very few contracts in my neck of the woods (Swindon/Bristol). Luckily I live near a main line train station so could easily commute further afield even ... gulp ... London if I *really* had to.