Did Julian Assange Rape These 2 Women
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Oakman wrote:
How is that any different from 90% of all rape cases? Should we ignore all accusations of rape unless there are 3rd party witnesses?
Well said, Oakman. On this we agree entirely. If he is exonerated on these charges, in which case the argument exists that this was an underhanded or vindictive attack by the women on him, then I think they should have to face some legal repercussions because of this. It is far too easy for people in many situations to make false claims against someone they are angry with without much of a result for their actions.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
Marcus Kramer wrote:
in which case the argument exists that this was an underhanded or vindictive attack by the women on him, then I think they should have to face some legal repercussions because of this.
I certainly believe that false rape and false abuse charges are two of the more heinous accusations that some unethical women use to get revenge on, or extort money from men. However, I cannot go so far as to assume that because a man or women is judged to be not proved guilty (which is a far cry from being proved innocent) that their accusers deserve punishment. Such a law, if instituted across the board would discourage women (and kids) from coming forward after being abused.
"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth. I have observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer." ~ Benj Franklin
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Marcus Kramer wrote:
in which case the argument exists that this was an underhanded or vindictive attack by the women on him, then I think they should have to face some legal repercussions because of this.
I certainly believe that false rape and false abuse charges are two of the more heinous accusations that some unethical women use to get revenge on, or extort money from men. However, I cannot go so far as to assume that because a man or women is judged to be not proved guilty (which is a far cry from being proved innocent) that their accusers deserve punishment. Such a law, if instituted across the board would discourage women (and kids) from coming forward after being abused.
"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth. I have observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer." ~ Benj Franklin
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Read a fairly full account of the charges here. Do you think Julian Assange raped these 2 women? I personally think he may have violated their trust (unless they're lying, in which case they violated his), but I wouldn't go so far as to call what he supposedly did rape. I don't think I read anywhere in there that either of them said "no" (though the accusation of him having sex with one of the girls while she was asleep may change that somewhat). And one more queston. Do any of you know of a similar case we could compare this to?
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This is a very good reason for anonymity in such cases - too often people are tried by the media.
Join the cool kids - Come fold with us[^]
Trollslayer wrote:
This is a very good reason for anonymity in such cases
I believe the concept of anonymity of accusers would be a great perversion of our legal system. One of its basic tenants is that the accused and accusers must confront each other in open court. Or so my understanding of the 6th amendment to the Constitution goes.
Trollslayer wrote:
too often people are tried by the media.
Julian Assange would disagree. I am surprised you do not support his belief that nothing should be hidden from the media. I think that the laws forbidding newspapers from publicizing the names of women who say they have been raped have much to recommend them, though the 1st Amendment seems to be violated by such legislation. I wonder though, why men accused of rape (sometimes unjustly as you believe to be true in Assange's case, I think) are never shielded from public approbation. Any thoughts?
"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth. I have observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer." ~ Benj Franklin
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I meant the ultimate outcome, not the intermediate steps to reach that outcome. And I was speaking as an outside observer given only the partial evidence I've seen so far, not as somebody who has been fully informed and can make the decision of whether or not the case should go to trial at all. When somebody is presented with the full evidence, they can decide "there might be an argument for this" or "this evidence will be insufficient for a trial". What I want to discuss is what decision you would make given the evidence as it has been presented so far.
aspdotnetdev wrote:
What I want to discuss is what decision you would make given the evidence as it has been presented so far.
My "decision" would be that I have not heard all the evidence. But then, I have excellent impulse control, and seldom shoot my mouth off before I am reasonably sure I know what I am talking about.
"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth. I have observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer." ~ Benj Franklin
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It isn't up to you to decide. The law in Sweden says that intercourse without a condom when the woman asks for one to be used is rape. Q.E.D.
"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth. I have observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer." ~ Benj Franklin
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Yerright. "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law." Question: Were Thomas Jefferson and James Madison technocrats?
"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth. I have observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer." ~ Benj Franklin
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Trollslayer wrote:
Exploiting it for espionage is something to get upset over. This then cheapens it when it really happens.
Neither you, nor I, are as omniscient as you seem to think you are. As aspnetdev points out, we do not know all the facts. But we do know, or should know, that two women filed this complaint last September. Ask yourself whether, if the charge had been made against someone who was considered conservative and it had been dismissed, whether or not you would be in the forefront of those demanding that they have their day in court. Instead, this seems to be another case where almost any other progressive cause trumps any consideration of a woman's right to be treated with respect.
"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth. I have observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer." ~ Benj Franklin
4 people voted me a 1 because they disagreed with the idea that women should be respected, even if they claim to be raped by a hero of the progressives. But not one of those 4 had the guts to say anything. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth. I have observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer." ~ Benj Franklin
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Yerright. "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law." Question: Were Thomas Jefferson and James Madison technocrats?
"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth. I have observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer." ~ Benj Franklin
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Trollslayer wrote:
This is a very good reason for anonymity in such cases
I believe the concept of anonymity of accusers would be a great perversion of our legal system. One of its basic tenants is that the accused and accusers must confront each other in open court. Or so my understanding of the 6th amendment to the Constitution goes.
Trollslayer wrote:
too often people are tried by the media.
Julian Assange would disagree. I am surprised you do not support his belief that nothing should be hidden from the media. I think that the laws forbidding newspapers from publicizing the names of women who say they have been raped have much to recommend them, though the 1st Amendment seems to be violated by such legislation. I wonder though, why men accused of rape (sometimes unjustly as you believe to be true in Assange's case, I think) are never shielded from public approbation. Any thoughts?
"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth. I have observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer." ~ Benj Franklin
I believe the idea of not keeping the mans name from the press is that it allows any other victims to realise that he has been caught and encorages them to come forward. oh and the "women" movements do not feel that a man should be treated equal to a women
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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I believe the idea of not keeping the mans name from the press is that it allows any other victims to realise that he has been caught and encorages them to come forward. oh and the "women" movements do not feel that a man should be treated equal to a women
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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Couldnt agree more, and as the damage that can be done in a false accusation is such that I feel it should be anonymous
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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I agree entirely. I can recall at least one case recently of a serial accuser who had different men accused. While they were named, she has not been named.
I'm not a stalker, I just know things. Oh by the way, you're out of milk.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
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Ever communicate much? So, twigman, Jeff and James were happy with government scripture ending discussion on guilt or innocence? Keep reading those quotes!
jumumu wrote:
Ever communicate much?
Not with you, so far you have made very little sense. But when you descend to the level of name-calling based on someone's username, I somehow doubt you have an intention of communicating. Indeed, it begs the question as to your ability to do it at all.
"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth. I have observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer." ~ Benj Franklin
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Dalek Dave wrote:
Either both parties should be anonymous, or both should be public, anything else is wrong.
Sounds fair to me, but that probably means we'll never see it happen.
"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth. I have observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer." ~ Benj Franklin
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I believe the idea of not keeping the mans name from the press is that it allows any other victims to realise that he has been caught and encorages them to come forward. oh and the "women" movements do not feel that a man should be treated equal to a women
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
Bergholt Stuttley Johnson wrote:
I believe the idea of not keeping the mans name from the press is that it allows any other victims to realise that he has been caught and encorages them to come forward.
I thought that, at least in the U.S. of A, a man was presumed innocent until proven guilty. You seem to be saying that the law has become that the accusation of rape (at least by a prosecutor) is tantamount to a finding of guilty - reminds me of the Red Queen: "Sentence first, then the trial!" (I am not saying you're wrong, by the way.)
Bergholt Stuttley Johnson wrote:
oh and the "women" movements do not feel that a man should be treated equal to a women
Noticed that, have you? Amazing how often the concept of an equal playing field quickly becomes "let's give the advantage to the other side!"
"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth. I have observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer." ~ Benj Franklin
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Read a fairly full account of the charges here. Do you think Julian Assange raped these 2 women? I personally think he may have violated their trust (unless they're lying, in which case they violated his), but I wouldn't go so far as to call what he supposedly did rape. I don't think I read anywhere in there that either of them said "no" (though the accusation of him having sex with one of the girls while she was asleep may change that somewhat). And one more queston. Do any of you know of a similar case we could compare this to?
It seems unlikely that we will ever find out. The desire to see Wikileaks and Assange silenced is so important that any validity to these accusations is suspect. It's quite possible that Sweden will chose to allow the US to extridite extradite without trying the charges against him.
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It seems unlikely that we will ever find out. The desire to see Wikileaks and Assange silenced is so important that any validity to these accusations is suspect. It's quite possible that Sweden will chose to allow the US to extridite extradite without trying the charges against him.
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If the US had a case to extradite with they would do so now. Do the UK and US not have extradition treaties? Can't see Sweden being more of a pushover than the UK. Just the opposite.