Facebook - a shining example of how to make software?
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Really? Go read the article again. If it's accurate, and who knows if it is, then the access to data that these guys seem to give out their employees seems to be an accident waiting to happen. Unless I'm mistake, there's just not that much to it, beyond the scale factor. And most of those kinds of problems have already been addressed years ago. I think it's reasonably fair to say that there's not a whole lot of uber-innovative R&D going on there. Like most everything else on the web it's a shit load of duct tape and bubble gum, held together with a lot of Hail Mary's and mountain of server machines.
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Jim Crafton wrote:
Like most everything else on the web it's a sh*t load of duct tape and bubble gum, held together with a lot of Hail Mary's and mountain of server machines.
yet microsoft found this to be a solid investment to the tune of millions.
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I fail to see how any of those things are actually better than email. You can certainly easily post a message to as many people as you'd like with email.
aspdotnetdev wrote:
an you imagine how annoying it would be if your Facebook friends sent you an email every time they updated their status and posted a picture?
Yes, so the normal thing to do, the thing that would actually *increase* communication, would be to email your friend, or gasp, *phone* them, and ask them how things are going!
aspdotnetdev wrote:
On the plus side, it's less work for you and you get to feel connected anytime you want.
That's just it - you get to *feel* more connected, but more than likely you're not. I *feel* like I can fly off the top of the Empire State building every time I hear the theme to Superman, but I know for fact that wouldn't actually work. I remember *feeling* at peace with the Universe when I tried smoking pot back in college, but if memory serves it didn't last long once the miracle of THC wore off! So FB is basically dumbing things down, and making you *feel* like you're accomplishing things, when in fact it's all just a bunch of hand waving and smoke and mirrors.
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Yeah, like I said, Facebook is more superficial, but it essentially fills the needs of an emotional addict (which we all are, to some degree, and in differing ways). Not everybody wants to have a deep connection with every one of their friends. I personally only have a few friends I am really close to. For the other hundred or so, Facebook is perfect. Facebook could even lead to deeper relationships with some friends. By having a sort of non-committal Facebook relationship, people are more open to "friending" others, and that may lead to deeper connections down the road. Facebook friends are kind of like backup friends. :rolleyes: In any event, Facebook is not the same as email. That's obvious. There are many nuances that make them different, and those differences are significant enough that many people have decided they enjoy both Facebook and email.
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Jim Crafton wrote:
Like most everything else on the web it's a sh*t load of duct tape and bubble gum, held together with a lot of Hail Mary's and mountain of server machines.
yet microsoft found this to be a solid investment to the tune of millions.
jgasm wrote:
yet microsoft found this to be a solid investment to the tune of millions.
Get rid of the "solid" bit. Lot's of people do dumb things every single day. Just because Microsoft invests in them doesn't automatically mean that it's actually a good investment. Go back and look at the history of the tech bubble, and the web 2.0 bubble - it's riddled with a whole range of completely idiotic companies that venture capitalist threw *billions* of dollars at, that the tech media grossly over hyped, if not flat out lied about, that industry analysts *did* in fact lie about in order to increase the IPO potential. And if you don't buy that, then if your neighbor, who made 20K a year, walked up to you for a 500K loan with no money down or any collateral whatsoever, would you give it to him? Of course not! And yet...
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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I read with interest an article linked from the CodeProject Insider regarding how Facebook ships code: "I hope that releasing these notes will help shed some light on how Facebook has managed to push decision-making “down” in its organization without descending into chaos… It’s hard to argue with Facebook’s results or the coherence of Facebook’s product offerings. I think and hope that many consumer internet companies can learn from Facebook’s example." This is not unique, there are a number of articles holding up aspects of facebook as an example for software developers. But an example of what? Facebook is a perfect example of really crappy software. I use it regularly, it's pure crap from every aspect, there is very little thought put into usability, half the time core features don't work properly or at all (multi photo uploading). You can't even load a photo from another website so if you have a flickr photo you have to save to your hard drive and upload. Basic stuff that other "social" sites get from day one. Every operation is counter-intuitive and hard to find. They regularly have epic privacy leaks. There's no end to how bad it is. Any one of us experienced developers here could excrete an equally unusable interface given free time and a few months. There are only two unique things about Facebook as software that are even remotely interesting: 1) The sheer scale of it's user base 2) It's prominence in popular culture. Telerik made a sample UI replacement for Facebook called F!aceDeck[^] out of Silverlight in a month or so as a proof of concept for a Microsoft dev conference. It's slick, clean and easily far better than Facebooks web interface. A month! Facebook has succeeded in spite of their developers shooting themselves in the foot on a regular basis because they are a classic example of the confluence of right place / right time and the most important ingredient of all in any commercial software's success: marketing. For people to be holding it up as an example to other developers and code shops is ludicrous. The only benefit and it's probably not a significant one these days is how they support their huge customer base. Aside from that it's strictly amateur.
There is no failure only feedback
I am not worth billions.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
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+1. The *intent* behind facebook isn't to allow you to communicate with friends/family. It's intent is to make money by selling your contact info (and your"friends" contact info) to advertisers. Magnanimous they are not. My wife and I don't have facebook accounts.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997Indeed. Facebook's interaction with advertisers is one of the reasons I'm considering deleting my Facebook account. So far, however, I've found Facebook too valuable and the negatives too non-intrusive to go so far as to delete my account.
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I read with interest an article linked from the CodeProject Insider regarding how Facebook ships code: "I hope that releasing these notes will help shed some light on how Facebook has managed to push decision-making “down” in its organization without descending into chaos… It’s hard to argue with Facebook’s results or the coherence of Facebook’s product offerings. I think and hope that many consumer internet companies can learn from Facebook’s example." This is not unique, there are a number of articles holding up aspects of facebook as an example for software developers. But an example of what? Facebook is a perfect example of really crappy software. I use it regularly, it's pure crap from every aspect, there is very little thought put into usability, half the time core features don't work properly or at all (multi photo uploading). You can't even load a photo from another website so if you have a flickr photo you have to save to your hard drive and upload. Basic stuff that other "social" sites get from day one. Every operation is counter-intuitive and hard to find. They regularly have epic privacy leaks. There's no end to how bad it is. Any one of us experienced developers here could excrete an equally unusable interface given free time and a few months. There are only two unique things about Facebook as software that are even remotely interesting: 1) The sheer scale of it's user base 2) It's prominence in popular culture. Telerik made a sample UI replacement for Facebook called F!aceDeck[^] out of Silverlight in a month or so as a proof of concept for a Microsoft dev conference. It's slick, clean and easily far better than Facebooks web interface. A month! Facebook has succeeded in spite of their developers shooting themselves in the foot on a regular basis because they are a classic example of the confluence of right place / right time and the most important ingredient of all in any commercial software's success: marketing. For people to be holding it up as an example to other developers and code shops is ludicrous. The only benefit and it's probably not a significant one these days is how they support their huge customer base. Aside from that it's strictly amateur.
There is no failure only feedback
We must be Wednesday, people are bitching and moaning about Facebook. :rolleyes:
Watched code never compiles.
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Same here. I'll only consider an account if the company puts privacy above zuckerburg acquiring his next billion. Sacking him and all his cronies would be a good start. Sacking the entire FB office (viking style) would be better.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
Dan Neely wrote:
Sacking the entire FB office (viking style) would be better.
Now that's an interesting image! Maybe you could start a FB page for it...
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
It's intent is to make money by selling your contact info (and your"friends" contact info) to advertisers
oh it is much more than just some addresses and phone numbers. the metrics that facebook sells are massive. Millions of demographically definied "Likes" for Market development. Like having a captive audience to take a survey 24/7 as they check in and out of establishments and rate them.
But that's his point. Are you willing going to hand over all this information, for basically nothing? For a service that nominally doesn't do any more than an email would? Unless I had no choice at all, I sure wouldn't. It just seems creepy.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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We must be Wednesday, people are bitching and moaning about Facebook. :rolleyes:
Watched code never compiles.
There was a VS2010 sucks post just a little further down... :rolleyes:
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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+1. The *intent* behind facebook isn't to allow you to communicate with friends/family. It's intent is to make money by selling your contact info (and your"friends" contact info) to advertisers. Magnanimous they are not. My wife and I don't have facebook accounts.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John don't spoil the surprises when they are crying to their banks over ID theft.
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Same here. I'll only consider an account if the company puts privacy above zuckerburg acquiring his next billion. Sacking him and all his cronies would be a good start. Sacking the entire FB office (viking style) would be better.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
But then how would FB make money?
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In my understanding, it's the same why answering machines are better than phone calls, and emails are better than answering machines: You don't have to reply See, if Aunt Josepha posts "My cat died", or "Firetrucked Uncle Joe tonight, very pneumatic", you don't have to reply immediately, and often, not at all.
FILETIME to time_t
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | WhoIncludes - Analyzing C++ include file hierarchyPersonal Information sold - deal done.
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John C wrote:
Aside from that it's strictly amateur.
i think that is taking things a bit far. facebook may not be the "perfect" anything. but what it is, is successful. and long time coming. - the site has changed immensly since 2005 and user growth continued to climb despite the alleged "changes outrage" - facebook is the largest website in the world and doesn't have the reputation of a fail whale like twitter.com There is obviously some talent there.
Living in cloud cuckoo land my friend. Who pays for Offices Staff Datacnters You do they sell your life to other companies - fucking simple if you actually thing about it. It's a bigger scam than the nigerian boys, except everyone across the world fell for it.
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We must be Wednesday, people are bitching and moaning about Facebook. :rolleyes:
Watched code never compiles.
No revealing FB to actually what it is.
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digital man wrote:
I have recently started using FB as it is a convenient way of staying in touch with friends and family abroad.
I hear this from people all the time. What exactly is so complex about sending an email? Or, gasp, having calling someone up on the phone? Most peoples mobile plans give them so many minutes I would expect this would be trivial (unless it's international calls). I don't see what FB gives you that email doesn't, and email doesn't broadcast your personal info to any idiot with an IP connection.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
It's internationalso FB does mean I can easily chat with them cos I can see they're online. Has proved very good. I speak to more of my friends more often than I used to and it seems to negate the time diff which is between 5 and 8 hours.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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+1. The *intent* behind facebook isn't to allow you to communicate with friends/family. It's intent is to make money by selling your contact info (and your"friends" contact info) to advertisers. Magnanimous they are not. My wife and I don't have facebook accounts.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997Other than my email address Facebook knows almost nothing about me - you don't have to disclose very much. In any case it's not that hard for a detremined person to find out whatever they want about you. Whereas you and I might value our privay young people see it as an irrelevance and a roadblock.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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But that's his point. Are you willing going to hand over all this information, for basically nothing? For a service that nominally doesn't do any more than an email would? Unless I had no choice at all, I sure wouldn't. It just seems creepy.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
Jim Crafton wrote:
But that's his point.
totally, my thoughts as well.
Jim Crafton wrote:
Are you willing going to hand over all this information, for basically nothing? For a service that nominally doesn't do any more than an email would?
it is not a question of whether i am or am not. 500 million are.
modified on Wednesday, January 19, 2011 3:28 PM
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jgasm wrote:
yet microsoft found this to be a solid investment to the tune of millions.
Get rid of the "solid" bit. Lot's of people do dumb things every single day. Just because Microsoft invests in them doesn't automatically mean that it's actually a good investment. Go back and look at the history of the tech bubble, and the web 2.0 bubble - it's riddled with a whole range of completely idiotic companies that venture capitalist threw *billions* of dollars at, that the tech media grossly over hyped, if not flat out lied about, that industry analysts *did* in fact lie about in order to increase the IPO potential. And if you don't buy that, then if your neighbor, who made 20K a year, walked up to you for a 500K loan with no money down or any collateral whatsoever, would you give it to him? Of course not! And yet...
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
well only the future will tell. i am not saying it is a perfect enviro or that the golden blessing of microsoft is the end all be all. we may not understand the exact magic formula that makes people love this website, but this is a successful service with many many employees and strong influence.
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No revealing FB to actually what it is.
Norm .net wrote:
revealing FB to actually what it is.
a snake in the grass! ~~~~~~~~~~o:
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Personal Information sold - deal done.
it is not personal when you put it online to a semi-public profile. do not post to facebook that which you do not want known.