Routers & dual zones
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Might be worth buying one. What's the advantage of a switch over a hub in this scenario?
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer
Writing apps? Developing sites? Hate marketing? We can help.Christopher Duncan wrote:
What's the advantage of a switch over a hub
Fewer collisions and better throughput. A hub echos every packet received to every port. A switch "learns" what's attached to each port and only forwards incoming packages to the port which leads to the destination. The prices have dropped to the point where there's little difference in cost; in fact, it's a little hard to find an old fashioned hub anymore.
Will Rogers never met me.
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Might be worth buying one. What's the advantage of a switch over a hub in this scenario?
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer
Writing apps? Developing sites? Hate marketing? We can help.A switch has more configuration controls and (I think, not 100% sure) better handling of the multiple inputs/outputs. It might even support more physical connections(?) - something like a hub might only support 4, while a switch will do 16, 24, or something like that?
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
What's the advantage of a switch over a hub
Fewer collisions and better throughput. A hub echos every packet received to every port. A switch "learns" what's attached to each port and only forwards incoming packages to the port which leads to the destination. The prices have dropped to the point where there's little difference in cost; in fact, it's a little hard to find an old fashioned hub anymore.
Will Rogers never met me.
Given the amount of audio and video flying across the network, not to mention the freakin' incessant software updates from just about everyone, it would probably would be a good idea to replace those 24 port hubs sometime, too.
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer
Writing apps? Developing sites? Hate marketing? We can help. -
A switch has more configuration controls and (I think, not 100% sure) better handling of the multiple inputs/outputs. It might even support more physical connections(?) - something like a hub might only support 4, while a switch will do 16, 24, or something like that?
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
Given I'm a control freak, the more controls the better. :)
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer
Writing apps? Developing sites? Hate marketing? We can help. -
That's way too confusing and in some parts of the country could be construed as a come on.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
You must be from Bill Clinton country
"If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
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I have half a dozen or so machines here and everything, including all the cat5 in the house and the wireless router I use for the laptop, is plugged into a couple of 24 port hubs. Everything talks to everything. Since it's just me, that's not been a problem. However, the place is about to be flooded on a regular basis with cast & crew for the show, and I'd like to set things up so that there are two paths. One wireless router would have access to the Internet only, and nothing on the LAN. (I have a NAS on the hubs that doesn't care about Windows user/password security so I want the LAN completely blocked off.) That would let visitors get to the Internet without exposing my company & personal data. The other wireless router would stay as it is for my laptop, having full access to the LAN & Internet and I'd be the only one to access that one. I've never delved very deeply into network system administration so I thought you guys might be able to recommend a cheap router / gizmo and a bit of sage advice on configuration.
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer
Writing apps? Developing sites? Hate marketing? We can help.modified on Friday, January 21, 2011 10:01 AM
What is your wireless router and does it support a guest wireless network? Some like the Netgear WNR3500v2 that I have already have a setting for a guest wireless network which when I enable, with different credential than my main wireless network, gives other people access to the internet but not the rest of my LAN.
People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Plug the new router into your cable modem
Okay, so currently the modem goes to wireless router 1 (which also serves as the main entry point firewall) and from there to the hubs. In order to get router 2 into the mix, if I just plug it into the hub will it be able to hop across router 1, talk to the modem and get out to the web? Said modem has only one cat 5 output, so I'm trying to understand how to connect the hip bone to the thigh bone here.
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer
Writing apps? Developing sites? Hate marketing? We can help.Christopher Duncan wrote:
ohn Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: Plug the new router into your cable modem
I don't think it is that simple but let me preface this by saying I am in the UK so it may be different here Normally a cable MODEM (as distinct from a cable router) has 1 cat 5 port on the back and this has a real world IP address and you then plug a cable router (may be wireless) into the back of this which then gives 4 ports which are on private IP addresses Unless you have multiple IP addresses (not usually) you cannot use a hub or a switch to plug two routers in to this so the best route would be to replace your original router with one that has the ability to have two separate wireless lan's configured. Over here we have Vigor (also known as draytek) routers that can provide a guest wireless lan which can be configured to be isolated from the normal wireless users and other lan users Mike
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Might be worth buying one. What's the advantage of a switch over a hub in this scenario?
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer
Writing apps? Developing sites? Hate marketing? We can help.As Roger says, there will be fewer collisions. However, two of the main advantages of switches over hubs are switches can accommodate different network speeds on the same network infrastructure, whereas a hub will bring everyones speed down to the lowest on the network. If internal network security is a concern, a switch will thwart 'sniffing' by anyone on the network whereas the hub will quite gladly forward every packet to every computer and make network sniffing extremely easy which you don't want!
Nobody can get the truth out of me because even I don't know what it is. I keep myself in a constant state of utter confusion. - Col. Flagg
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What is your wireless router and does it support a guest wireless network? Some like the Netgear WNR3500v2 that I have already have a setting for a guest wireless network which when I enable, with different credential than my main wireless network, gives other people access to the internet but not the rest of my LAN.
People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs
I recommend any router that supports DD-WRT, a Linux based alternative OpenSource firmware suitable for a great variety of routers which allows for multiple SSID on distinct subnets, i.e. a guest access point for visitors and a more secure SSID for your personal use.
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I have half a dozen or so machines here and everything, including all the cat5 in the house and the wireless router I use for the laptop, is plugged into a couple of 24 port hubs. Everything talks to everything. Since it's just me, that's not been a problem. However, the place is about to be flooded on a regular basis with cast & crew for the show, and I'd like to set things up so that there are two paths. One wireless router would have access to the Internet only, and nothing on the LAN. (I have a NAS on the hubs that doesn't care about Windows user/password security so I want the LAN completely blocked off.) That would let visitors get to the Internet without exposing my company & personal data. The other wireless router would stay as it is for my laptop, having full access to the LAN & Internet and I'd be the only one to access that one. I've never delved very deeply into network system administration so I thought you guys might be able to recommend a cheap router / gizmo and a bit of sage advice on configuration.
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer
Writing apps? Developing sites? Hate marketing? We can help.modified on Friday, January 21, 2011 10:01 AM
Depending on the wireless router hardware that you have you might be able to flash it with dd-wrt or other modded firmeware. This will allow you to use 1 wireless router to do both of the things you are looking to do. There are quite a few pages on the subject, check out these to get started: http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Multiple_WLANs[^] and http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Separate_WLANs[^] Separate wired from wireless: http://www.broadbandreports.com/faq/12676[^]
Jeremy Props to the family: New Dawn Engineering
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I have half a dozen or so machines here and everything, including all the cat5 in the house and the wireless router I use for the laptop, is plugged into a couple of 24 port hubs. Everything talks to everything. Since it's just me, that's not been a problem. However, the place is about to be flooded on a regular basis with cast & crew for the show, and I'd like to set things up so that there are two paths. One wireless router would have access to the Internet only, and nothing on the LAN. (I have a NAS on the hubs that doesn't care about Windows user/password security so I want the LAN completely blocked off.) That would let visitors get to the Internet without exposing my company & personal data. The other wireless router would stay as it is for my laptop, having full access to the LAN & Internet and I'd be the only one to access that one. I've never delved very deeply into network system administration so I thought you guys might be able to recommend a cheap router / gizmo and a bit of sage advice on configuration.
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer
Writing apps? Developing sites? Hate marketing? We can help.modified on Friday, January 21, 2011 10:01 AM
If your router supports it, consider settiung up virutal networks. The physical networks remain the same, but the router is able to completely isolate the network based on IP address range or even MAC addresses.
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
ohn Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: Plug the new router into your cable modem
I don't think it is that simple but let me preface this by saying I am in the UK so it may be different here Normally a cable MODEM (as distinct from a cable router) has 1 cat 5 port on the back and this has a real world IP address and you then plug a cable router (may be wireless) into the back of this which then gives 4 ports which are on private IP addresses Unless you have multiple IP addresses (not usually) you cannot use a hub or a switch to plug two routers in to this so the best route would be to replace your original router with one that has the ability to have two separate wireless lan's configured. Over here we have Vigor (also known as draytek) routers that can provide a guest wireless lan which can be configured to be isolated from the normal wireless users and other lan users Mike
What would be a good setup if you do happen to have multiple IP addresses? I've got a block of 5 at my small business and I'm currently using one. Of course, if I followed YAGNI, I should've stuck with the one, but that's a different story. I'm assuming it would be possible to hook up multiple modem / routers? Also, on my last visit to BB, they had a DOSSIS 3(?) modem that they were pitching as a much faster up and down on my same line. Is there a new generation of modems happening? Thanks.
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What would be a good setup if you do happen to have multiple IP addresses? I've got a block of 5 at my small business and I'm currently using one. Of course, if I followed YAGNI, I should've stuck with the one, but that's a different story. I'm assuming it would be possible to hook up multiple modem / routers? Also, on my last visit to BB, they had a DOSSIS 3(?) modem that they were pitching as a much faster up and down on my same line. Is there a new generation of modems happening? Thanks.
I think you mean DOCSIS 3
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Plug the new router into your cable modem
Okay, so currently the modem goes to wireless router 1 (which also serves as the main entry point firewall) and from there to the hubs. In order to get router 2 into the mix, if I just plug it into the hub will it be able to hop across router 1, talk to the modem and get out to the web? Said modem has only one cat 5 output, so I'm trying to understand how to connect the hip bone to the thigh bone here.
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer
Writing apps? Developing sites? Hate marketing? We can help.I call your two routers "private" and "public" just to keep things straight. I am assuming both wireless routers are standard modern routers that have DHCP and NAS. What I mean by that is they have multiple LAN ports, they get their own address from wahtever is plugged into the WAN port and then hand out local addresses (such as 192.168.x.x) to whatever machines are plugged into the LAN ports. My suggestion will not work with simple hubs as they do not do any sort of routing or NAS. Since your cable modem only has one local port what you will want to do is plug the WAN connection your "public" router into that and move your current "private" wireless router 1's WAN port to a LAN port on the "public" router. Much like this: Simple Public/Private Wireless Diagram[^] What this effectively does is put your public wireless router first in line off of your cable modem. Since your routers don't allow any unsolicited traffic from the outside world into your network (unless you have opened ports such as for putting a web server online or a gaming server) there is no way for the first router in the line to talk to the second. I had the exact same setup at my house for a while and it worked great. There is no need for you to actually change the subnet addresses. It's OK if they are both 192.168.0.x. The value of having, say, the public router being on 192.168.1.x and the private one on 192.168.2.x is that anyone on the private router can still reach any machines on the public router. This allows you to admin your public router from any machine plugged into the private one. Otherwise, if they are the same subnet, you will need to physically plug a machine into the public router (or have your laptop join the public wireless) to log into it. Bear in mind that if you want to make any other resources available to the public clients, such as a printer, you will need to move that device to the public router. Good luck!
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I call your two routers "private" and "public" just to keep things straight. I am assuming both wireless routers are standard modern routers that have DHCP and NAS. What I mean by that is they have multiple LAN ports, they get their own address from wahtever is plugged into the WAN port and then hand out local addresses (such as 192.168.x.x) to whatever machines are plugged into the LAN ports. My suggestion will not work with simple hubs as they do not do any sort of routing or NAS. Since your cable modem only has one local port what you will want to do is plug the WAN connection your "public" router into that and move your current "private" wireless router 1's WAN port to a LAN port on the "public" router. Much like this: Simple Public/Private Wireless Diagram[^] What this effectively does is put your public wireless router first in line off of your cable modem. Since your routers don't allow any unsolicited traffic from the outside world into your network (unless you have opened ports such as for putting a web server online or a gaming server) there is no way for the first router in the line to talk to the second. I had the exact same setup at my house for a while and it worked great. There is no need for you to actually change the subnet addresses. It's OK if they are both 192.168.0.x. The value of having, say, the public router being on 192.168.1.x and the private one on 192.168.2.x is that anyone on the private router can still reach any machines on the public router. This allows you to admin your public router from any machine plugged into the private one. Otherwise, if they are the same subnet, you will need to physically plug a machine into the public router (or have your laptop join the public wireless) to log into it. Bear in mind that if you want to make any other resources available to the public clients, such as a printer, you will need to move that device to the public router. Good luck!
Great stuff, man. Thanks!
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer
Writing apps? Developing sites? Hate marketing? We can help. -
I think you mean DOCSIS 3
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
What's the advantage of a switch over a hub
Fewer collisions and better throughput. A hub echos every packet received to every port. A switch "learns" what's attached to each port and only forwards incoming packages to the port which leads to the destination. The prices have dropped to the point where there's little difference in cost; in fact, it's a little hard to find an old fashioned hub anymore.
Will Rogers never met me.
Also, I believe that a switch can handle more than 1 point to point communication at once. As Roger said, a Hub broadcasts to all ports, so when 1 port is talking, everyone else has to listen. A switch connects the talker (ex port 1) to listener (ex port 2). It may require an initial broadcast to find out what device addresses are on the ports, but after that it should be possible to have N/2 point to point connections at the same time on an N port switch. In practice though, invariably 1 port is a bottleneck (if it is the connection to outbound internet or to a frequently used server), so this gain is really more applicable to peer-to-peer file sharing. It is still significant, but you won't get a 12x speedup just by switching your 24 port hub to a 24 port switch.
