The Tiger Mother and the lounge... [modified] THIS IS NOT ME, JUST AN EXCERPT FROM AN ARTICLE
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really, this is not what i am doing to my daughters... i don't even have two daugters!!! it's an excerpt from a WSJ article!!!!
I feel for you :) Sometimes the people here gang up on the newbies. Flame first and ask questions later... or sometimes not ask questions at all. Some of the reactions are, well, vitriolic. It's not such a bad place to hang out, really.... :doh:
Cheers, विक्रम (Have gone past my troika - 4 CCCs!) "We have already been through this, I am not going to repeat myself." - fat_boy, in a global warming thread :doh:
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Yes and no. The same can be said of the Cello. Ditto for the most of the other orchestral instruments, though their tend to be more concertoes for hte violin than others. And what about the voice? The only valid difference I can see is that violin/cello/viola/classical guitar and piano all lend themselves to polyphony/counterpoint. That's a crucial and useful part of learning music theory both as a performer, and as a composer. You could argue that out of all of these, you could drop the strings entirely (not a bad idea, I HATE the violin and viola) and just practice the piano.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
Yeah, I'd have thought that counterpoint on a violin is hard, whereas on a guitar or piano, you can play many notes and have them all ring out.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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iris.frigole wrote:
Jim, this is not me. It's an article I came across and just wanted to know what people thought of it.
:laugh: I feel for you man. Some of the reactions you got have been hilarious! Oh well, the good thing is they all probably think you own the Wall Street Journal :-D
Regards, Nish
Latest article: Code Project Posts Analyzer for Windows Phone 7 My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
:laugh:
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Eventually, we should not be quick to judge. Sometimes when you look deeper, and try and empathize with how a different mindset would perceive a situation, things look a lot different from what they did originally.
I know that not "all" Chinese parents raise their children this way but I know that "many" Chinese parents raise their children this (not just a Chinese thing either) way...I went to private school for 10+ years any many Chinese (and other cultures) raise there kids like this...some even worse. You are right, we should not be quick to judge and I am very guilty of this. However, I have seen it, been around it, and I know that it messes up the kids in the long run.
Slacker007 wrote:
However, I have seen it, been around it, and I know that it messes up the kids in the long run.
That is my personal theory too. It happens with 2nd generation Indian Americans too. Most of them are surgeons, lawyers or high-end management types making stunning salaries and living in mansions in upscale neighborhoods. But when you talk with them it seems as if they miss the spark of life. I don't really know how to explain that, but you will know what I mean if you've talked to such people.
Regards, Nish
Latest article: Code Project Posts Analyzer for Windows Phone 7 My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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not every one can be no.1 that is for sure... being good at something is a goal that can be achieved, being number one is not
It's an interesting article, but I think the whole 'what do they do over there' attitude fails to consider that there are dumb kids in China, we just don't read about them. Either way, I think the core issue is parents defining themselves by a narrow band of what their kids do.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Exactly. My mother never did; she let us make our own decisions, and gave us all the support she could. But only as long as we would accept the consequences. Seems to have worked: I haven't gone on a killing spree yet!
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together.
Well, I hope I turned out OK, despite my mother's shortcomings...
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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changed the title of the post to avoid the flames, will be more careful next time i post for sure :)
I truly apologize to you openly for my outburst. I am not a mean spirited person (at least most of the time) and, again, I am glad that you don't want to raise your children this way.
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Sorry, I am just trying to give you a hard time :-)
Regards, Nish
Latest article: Code Project Posts Analyzer for Windows Phone 7 My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
np :thumbsup:
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OK, let me try again, having read the article. I would agree that a lot of western parents think kids will just raise themselves. I'd say I reach a happy medium. I know when my kids have homework, and I help with it, or make sure it gets done. I also want my kids to be kids, to enjoy their lives, and to do things like music, because they like them. Both my kids play an instrument, the older one practices a lot more, and she enjoys it a lot more having found she likes it, than if I was forcing her to do it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Thank you for your reply. Medium term is where virtue is, they say in Spanish. I mostly disagree with the author views, but there is truth in this //BOF EXCERPT nothing is fun until you're good at it. To get good at anything you have to work, //EOF EXCERPT PS: i think i shouldn't have posted the excerpt in the original post, just read the article or not
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Anyone read this? http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html[^] Pasting an excerpt here: //BOF EXCERPT //*****THIS A EXCERPT FROM THE ARTICLE, NOT MY OWN DEEDS***** A lot of people wonder how Chinese parents raise such stereotypically successful kids. They wonder what these parents do to produce so many math whizzes and music prodigies, what it’s like inside the family, and whether they could do it too. Well, I can tell them, because I’ve done it. Here are some things my daughters, Sophia and Louisa, were never allowed to do: •attend a sleepover •have a playdate •be in a school play •complain about not being in a school play •watch TV or play computer games •choose their own extracurricular activities •get any grade less than an A •not be the No. 1 student in every subject except gym and drama •play any instrument other than the piano or violin •not play the piano or violin //EOF EXCERPT what do you think?
modified on Friday, January 28, 2011 11:23 AM
iris.frigole wrote:
what do you think?
I think those Chinese children will grow up to inherit what their parents currently own...a good deal of the U.S. debt. Giving up TV is a small price to pay for such a powerful position.
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"Man who follows car will be exhausted." - Confucius
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Thank you for your reply. Medium term is where virtue is, they say in Spanish. I mostly disagree with the author views, but there is truth in this //BOF EXCERPT nothing is fun until you're good at it. To get good at anything you have to work, //EOF EXCERPT PS: i think i shouldn't have posted the excerpt in the original post, just read the article or not
iris.frigole wrote:
i think i shouldn't have posted the excerpt in the original post,
Maybe...maybe not. By the way, welcome to the Code Project. I assure you that we all are a bunch of entertaining misfits of one kind or another and the Lounge can be extremely habit forming. Cheers. :-D
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Thank you for your reply. Medium term is where virtue is, they say in Spanish. I mostly disagree with the author views, but there is truth in this //BOF EXCERPT nothing is fun until you're good at it. To get good at anything you have to work, //EOF EXCERPT PS: i think i shouldn't have posted the excerpt in the original post, just read the article or not
I think posting what you did was fine, you just needed to post the link so there was a context. And I agree. It's not fun until you're good at it, and kids need to learn to do the work, for school at a minimum, and for things like music, they need some prompting, but, I play myself, so I can show them what the end result looks like, and I always took the attitude that if they were to have a good attitude towards the instrument, they needed to be guided more than forced. My son plays drums and guitar, my daughter plays clarinet, piano and some guitar/bass. She is very good, he is average, but they both have fun, and both have a solid grounding if they want to take it further as they get older.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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iris.frigole wrote:
i think i shouldn't have posted the excerpt in the original post,
Maybe...maybe not. By the way, welcome to the Code Project. I assure you that we all are a bunch of entertaining misfits of one kind or another and the Lounge can be extremely habit forming. Cheers. :-D
thank you very much :)
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Next time I think you should make your post more "clear" as to what you are saying and what the article excerpt is saying. I don't think I was the only one here that misunderstood your post. I am glad to hear that you don't feel this way. :)
It was pretty clear to me (as he originally posted) it was a post about the article, not about his own parenting. Personally, I think what the article describes is going a bit overboard, but I think pushing your children to excel is good. The main thing I get out of it is being *involved* in your child's education. And not just being passive and not letting the "gov'ment" do whatever...
"If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
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Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:
while the rest are flaming and insulting the OP
Poor OP. He posts a link. First sentence, he asks if anyone has read the article. Second sentence, he says he's posting an excerpt. And yet people overlooked all that! Truly unbelievable if you ask me :-)
Regards, Nish
Latest article: Code Project Posts Analyzer for Windows Phone 7 My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
Iris sounds like a she to me :) The OP did edit their post, so I have no idea what it originally looked like. However, the reaction is far too harsh. CP can be very unwelcoming at times :| DD and blatant leering sexism, for instance X|
Cheers, विक्रम (Have gone past my troika - 4 CCCs!) "We have already been through this, I am not going to repeat myself." - fat_boy, in a global warming thread :doh:
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Anyone read this? http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html[^] Pasting an excerpt here: //BOF EXCERPT //*****THIS A EXCERPT FROM THE ARTICLE, NOT MY OWN DEEDS***** A lot of people wonder how Chinese parents raise such stereotypically successful kids. They wonder what these parents do to produce so many math whizzes and music prodigies, what it’s like inside the family, and whether they could do it too. Well, I can tell them, because I’ve done it. Here are some things my daughters, Sophia and Louisa, were never allowed to do: •attend a sleepover •have a playdate •be in a school play •complain about not being in a school play •watch TV or play computer games •choose their own extracurricular activities •get any grade less than an A •not be the No. 1 student in every subject except gym and drama •play any instrument other than the piano or violin •not play the piano or violin //EOF EXCERPT what do you think?
modified on Friday, January 28, 2011 11:23 AM
I'd read that article a while back. I've heard as much before about the Asian way of education. It's hyper competitiveness and parents living through their kids. Anytime a parent implies or says directly that they won't love their kid because they're not doing what the parent wants them to achieve is emotional black mail. That's a form of power over another. It's manipulative and deceitful. I haven't read her book, but she goes into much greater depth than the article of course does. It's a lot more balanced from what I heard her explain. She learned some things about the process that she doesn't say in her article. Parents who are so disapproving of their childrens' accomplishments are the ones who don't really love them, just like to show case them like expensive cars and big houses. I've run into a few of them they're very selfish people. At the NYTimes a columnists rebuffed her article. I think his name was David Brook. He seems to value socializing more. He's on the other side of that coin. I've also met too many people who get ahead not in what they know or what they can do but in who they know at places like the golf course. As a programmer don't you guys value problem solving and critical thinking pretty high?
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Dude, it's a wsj article! Unsure
I hope that was a joke about the credibility of the wsj: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/03/wall-street-journal-plagi_n_379272.html[^]
Seems it's more about the credibility of a certain journalist: "Editors' Note: Mona Sarika has also written for the Huffington Post. Upon reviewing her work for this site, we have found similar instances of plagiarism and misattribution. Her work will no longer be featured on the Huffington Post." from the end of the linked article.
"If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
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I didn't read the entire article, but I am flabbergasted that YOU are the one agreeing with it :wtf: while the rest are flaming and insulting the OP :omg:
Cheers, विक्रम (Have gone past my troika - 4 CCCs!) "We have already been through this, I am not going to repeat myself." - fat_boy, in a global warming thread :doh:
Since last month when JSOP publicly apologized we all have noticed bizarre behavior from him. I'm really concerned. Do you think it is time we take his permit away? ;P
Yusuf May I help you?
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Iris sounds like a she to me :) The OP did edit their post, so I have no idea what it originally looked like. However, the reaction is far too harsh. CP can be very unwelcoming at times :| DD and blatant leering sexism, for instance X|
Cheers, विक्रम (Have gone past my troika - 4 CCCs!) "We have already been through this, I am not going to repeat myself." - fat_boy, in a global warming thread :doh:
Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:
Iris sounds like a she to me
Yeah, I just didn't give it that much thought.
Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:
The OP did edit their post, so I have no idea what it originally looked like.
The original version had everything I mentioned. The link to the article, the query about anyone having read it, and that she's posting an excerpt.
Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:
DD and blatant leering sexism, for instance
I am sure he is just playing to the crowd here though. Whatever gets him a few 5s and some laughter!
Regards, Nish
Latest article: Code Project Posts Analyzer for Windows Phone 7 My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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What's wrong with being driven to succeed? Why are we in the west so eager to accept mediocrity as an achievement? These are exactly the reasons the west is in decline. Everyone is expected to succeed or fail to the same level so that nobody stands out as being "better". Your typical Chinese familiy is only allowed to have one child, and getting accepted into a college there is extremely difficult, so if you don't want your kid to be harvesting rice for the rest of his life, you have to use extreme parenting to give them an equal chance at success. I don't have a problem with the strategies listed in the OP as long as the parents aren't psychopaths.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997I'm 100% with you on this John. Our one size fits all model is really screwed.
Yusuf May I help you?
