MS Access is NOT and Enterprise Solution
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I have found that the second a client finds out what can (potentially) be done with MS Access (or any other cheap solution) they then try to see how much work they can get done with this database software program. This is a bad thing in so many respects and on so many levels. I proposed C# with SQL Server - minimum. They wanted and "they payed" my company to see what I can get done with Access 2007. I told them their dreams will turn into nightmares in less than one month's time. They did not believe me. My advice and concerns have turned into reality. Microsoft Access is not meant to be a multi-user data entry system...it is not dependable and it crashes all the time and is constantly prone to corruption. Even Microsoft says that Access is not meant for this kind of work. I had no choice in the matter. I don't work for myself. I am not independently wealthy. I "need" this job right now; I have a family and bills to pay. Yet I am forced into working in a constant state of futility. Our client is a big-house and pays very well. Why couldn't they pay for the right solution to the problem the first time instead of taking the "usual" cheap man's way out is beyond me. I don't even know why my company allowed this contract to take off in the first place (a side from the money). I am emotionally spent. I need a vacation. They want me and another dumb-ass programmer to do a "complete" re-write. Thanks for reading.
heh, your lucky you get to work with 2007. We did once, but it was to downgrade to Access 97 so it could be supported :doh: We've got a metric ton of Access 97 apps, most critical to their department. The current solution/plan...nowt. And the way the crazy arse budgets work means that the first dept that wanted c#/asp/sql would be stuffed with the entire bill for the servers, deployment and training (which would via some 'online click next x100' course) Then again we've just gotten rid of NT4, and the project to upgrade SQL 7 is going well! It's lucky we're just a small shop and not a national bank...oh wait :( :(( :sigh:
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OK, now I'm gonna have to stick my chin out: MySQL is a toy - it's perhaps ok for internal applications, but it shouldn't be used for applications that are used outside the office by real users. I was working for a company a couple of years ago that had used MySQL as backend for their webshop. And in the end we were stuck to using a several years old version of MySQL, because every time we tried updating to a newer version, it would break the application, needless to say, it aggrevated our customers and we lost business every time.
1f y0u c4n r34d 7h15 y0u r3411y n33d 70 g37 14!d Gotta run; I've got people to do and things to see... Don't tell my folks I'm a computer programmer - They think I'm a piano player in a cat house... Da mihi sis crustum Etruscum cum omnibus in eo!
modified on Tuesday, February 8, 2011 9:01 AM
Sorry for your bad experience, but that's no toy - I agree that maintenance is harder than SQL Server, but that said its free. There's an enormous number of applications out there based on MySQL. Wikipedia in particular springs to mind - if it can cope with that I doubt many user's will outgrow it quickly.
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I have found that the second a client finds out what can (potentially) be done with MS Access (or any other cheap solution) they then try to see how much work they can get done with this database software program. This is a bad thing in so many respects and on so many levels. I proposed C# with SQL Server - minimum. They wanted and "they payed" my company to see what I can get done with Access 2007. I told them their dreams will turn into nightmares in less than one month's time. They did not believe me. My advice and concerns have turned into reality. Microsoft Access is not meant to be a multi-user data entry system...it is not dependable and it crashes all the time and is constantly prone to corruption. Even Microsoft says that Access is not meant for this kind of work. I had no choice in the matter. I don't work for myself. I am not independently wealthy. I "need" this job right now; I have a family and bills to pay. Yet I am forced into working in a constant state of futility. Our client is a big-house and pays very well. Why couldn't they pay for the right solution to the problem the first time instead of taking the "usual" cheap man's way out is beyond me. I don't even know why my company allowed this contract to take off in the first place (a side from the money). I am emotionally spent. I need a vacation. They want me and another dumb-ass programmer to do a "complete" re-write. Thanks for reading.
A while back I the company I worked for wanted a system to process large numbers of records in where security was pretty ciritical important. What would you do? Hire a security expert, get some a crack team of devs together and work out secure, scalable and robust system? Yes? I wish you'd worked in my old place. Here my ex-company's simple 12 step plan for greatness: 1. Sell your ability to process before getting anyone from IT to give a realistic idea of the effort required. 2. Get some bloke in the processing department, Bill or Eric or Alan* or something to write an Access/VBA system 2a. Wait until the 100,000s transactions per day fill up the 2GB limit on the database. This takes about 3 months BTW. 3. Contact IT to get them to fix the problem. Then make sure everyone know this is the now the top development priority. 4. Put a cack team of two developers onto it: one a graduate developer whose experience is in another framework, the other who [seemingly] hasn't kept up to date for 8 years. 5. Don't keep tabs on the chaps as they descend into their silo and don't contact the processing department. 6. Enjoy the mayhem as the system isn't even close to what is needed. 7. Throw very experienced devs into the team to sort the problems (and replace the original devs, who sensibly leave). Don't listen to the senior's recommmendations: drop this as fixing it will take longer. 8. Continue to ignore this advice from multiple sources as we are always "just around the corner". For 24 months. 9. Basque in the delight as the processing department assume each dev is stupid because a) Point 6 is their experience [legitimate] b) None of the developers understand the business requirements immediately through some telepathic process presumably [not]. 10. Revel in the warm glow of having glorfied clerks talk down to the experienced (and highly qualified) devs like, erm, glorfied clerks. Don't make any attempt to stop this, it will only raise morale in the already angry dev team. 11. Ensure that, instead of actually changing the system, you continue pargeting what you have, so adding to the big ball of mud and each fix breaks at least one other thing. 12. Watch as your most senior dev leaves, followed by each team member who has been forced to work on the project for more than a month. Great Sucess! I've been gone now for a good while, my contacts inform me they are still trying to fix the original system. At least they've got the records to check correctly for the first time. In the pr
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I have found that the second a client finds out what can (potentially) be done with MS Access (or any other cheap solution) they then try to see how much work they can get done with this database software program. This is a bad thing in so many respects and on so many levels. I proposed C# with SQL Server - minimum. They wanted and "they payed" my company to see what I can get done with Access 2007. I told them their dreams will turn into nightmares in less than one month's time. They did not believe me. My advice and concerns have turned into reality. Microsoft Access is not meant to be a multi-user data entry system...it is not dependable and it crashes all the time and is constantly prone to corruption. Even Microsoft says that Access is not meant for this kind of work. I had no choice in the matter. I don't work for myself. I am not independently wealthy. I "need" this job right now; I have a family and bills to pay. Yet I am forced into working in a constant state of futility. Our client is a big-house and pays very well. Why couldn't they pay for the right solution to the problem the first time instead of taking the "usual" cheap man's way out is beyond me. I don't even know why my company allowed this contract to take off in the first place (a side from the money). I am emotionally spent. I need a vacation. They want me and another dumb-ass programmer to do a "complete" re-write. Thanks for reading.
SQL Server Express is free, and a lot better than Access IMO.
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I have found that the second a client finds out what can (potentially) be done with MS Access (or any other cheap solution) they then try to see how much work they can get done with this database software program. This is a bad thing in so many respects and on so many levels. I proposed C# with SQL Server - minimum. They wanted and "they payed" my company to see what I can get done with Access 2007. I told them their dreams will turn into nightmares in less than one month's time. They did not believe me. My advice and concerns have turned into reality. Microsoft Access is not meant to be a multi-user data entry system...it is not dependable and it crashes all the time and is constantly prone to corruption. Even Microsoft says that Access is not meant for this kind of work. I had no choice in the matter. I don't work for myself. I am not independently wealthy. I "need" this job right now; I have a family and bills to pay. Yet I am forced into working in a constant state of futility. Our client is a big-house and pays very well. Why couldn't they pay for the right solution to the problem the first time instead of taking the "usual" cheap man's way out is beyond me. I don't even know why my company allowed this contract to take off in the first place (a side from the money). I am emotionally spent. I need a vacation. They want me and another dumb-ass programmer to do a "complete" re-write. Thanks for reading.
I have the same problem with potential clients. Notice I said potential ... I don't take the work. I do my best to leave it on good terms and suggest they call me when their needs change.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
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Haven't used it meself - but I know MySQL is in use out there inthe real world in million-hits=per-day sites Maybe you had a bad experience - and why were you updating to the newer version if it broke the application anyway - unbless there was already something wrong?
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
Not really. MySQL may be fast, but that's about it. As I see it, this speed is bought by omitting some very useful things like transactions. And transactions are a thing I do not like to have to do without.
A while ago he asked me what he should have printed on my business cards. I said 'Wizard'. I read books which nobody else understand. Then I do something which nobody understands. After that the computer does something which nobody understands. When asked, I say things about the results which nobody understand. But everybody expects miracles from me on a regular basis. Looks to me like the classical definition of a wizard.
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Sorry for your bad experience, but that's no toy - I agree that maintenance is harder than SQL Server, but that said its free. There's an enormous number of applications out there based on MySQL. Wikipedia in particular springs to mind - if it can cope with that I doubt many user's will outgrow it quickly.
Are you joking? A database without transactions is of little use for anything but the simplest web applications. So why bother with it in the first place?
A while ago he asked me what he should have printed on my business cards. I said 'Wizard'. I read books which nobody else understand. Then I do something which nobody understands. After that the computer does something which nobody understands. When asked, I say things about the results which nobody understand. But everybody expects miracles from me on a regular basis. Looks to me like the classical definition of a wizard.
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I have found that the second a client finds out what can (potentially) be done with MS Access (or any other cheap solution) they then try to see how much work they can get done with this database software program. This is a bad thing in so many respects and on so many levels. I proposed C# with SQL Server - minimum. They wanted and "they payed" my company to see what I can get done with Access 2007. I told them their dreams will turn into nightmares in less than one month's time. They did not believe me. My advice and concerns have turned into reality. Microsoft Access is not meant to be a multi-user data entry system...it is not dependable and it crashes all the time and is constantly prone to corruption. Even Microsoft says that Access is not meant for this kind of work. I had no choice in the matter. I don't work for myself. I am not independently wealthy. I "need" this job right now; I have a family and bills to pay. Yet I am forced into working in a constant state of futility. Our client is a big-house and pays very well. Why couldn't they pay for the right solution to the problem the first time instead of taking the "usual" cheap man's way out is beyond me. I don't even know why my company allowed this contract to take off in the first place (a side from the money). I am emotionally spent. I need a vacation. They want me and another dumb-ass programmer to do a "complete" re-write. Thanks for reading.
Slacker007 wrote:
it is not dependable and it crashes all the time and is constantly prone to corruption
Sounds exactly like an "enterprise solution" to me :-\
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I have found that the second a client finds out what can (potentially) be done with MS Access (or any other cheap solution) they then try to see how much work they can get done with this database software program. This is a bad thing in so many respects and on so many levels. I proposed C# with SQL Server - minimum. They wanted and "they payed" my company to see what I can get done with Access 2007. I told them their dreams will turn into nightmares in less than one month's time. They did not believe me. My advice and concerns have turned into reality. Microsoft Access is not meant to be a multi-user data entry system...it is not dependable and it crashes all the time and is constantly prone to corruption. Even Microsoft says that Access is not meant for this kind of work. I had no choice in the matter. I don't work for myself. I am not independently wealthy. I "need" this job right now; I have a family and bills to pay. Yet I am forced into working in a constant state of futility. Our client is a big-house and pays very well. Why couldn't they pay for the right solution to the problem the first time instead of taking the "usual" cheap man's way out is beyond me. I don't even know why my company allowed this contract to take off in the first place (a side from the money). I am emotionally spent. I need a vacation. They want me and another dumb-ass programmer to do a "complete" re-write. Thanks for reading.
We've all passed through this access pain... It is amazing the amount of damage the words FREE or CHEAP do to the world...
[www.tamelectromecanica.com] Robots, CNC and PLC machines for grinding and polishing.
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We've all passed through this access pain... It is amazing the amount of damage the words FREE or CHEAP do to the world...
[www.tamelectromecanica.com] Robots, CNC and PLC machines for grinding and polishing.
Joan Murt wrote:
It is amazing the amount of damage the words FREE or CHEAP do to the world...
Very true.
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There are other options, such as MySQL, that provide enterprise databases that don't break the bank. Bit of a learning curve if its new to you, but worth considering.
Their licenses are somewhat obscure. It was a couple of years I looked at it, but they way I interpreted their texts, using the MySQL database from a closed source app was a no-no, unless you paid for a commercial license. The problem was with the client libraries. They are (were?) GPL licensed, meaning you can't link to it (statically or dynamically) without breaking the license. MySQL being free is (was?) a joke.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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Are you joking? A database without transactions is of little use for anything but the simplest web applications. So why bother with it in the first place?
A while ago he asked me what he should have printed on my business cards. I said 'Wizard'. I read books which nobody else understand. Then I do something which nobody understands. After that the computer does something which nobody understands. When asked, I say things about the results which nobody understand. But everybody expects miracles from me on a regular basis. Looks to me like the classical definition of a wizard.
Why should web apps skip transactions? Anything that requires more than one statement requires a transaction IMHO.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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A while back I the company I worked for wanted a system to process large numbers of records in where security was pretty ciritical important. What would you do? Hire a security expert, get some a crack team of devs together and work out secure, scalable and robust system? Yes? I wish you'd worked in my old place. Here my ex-company's simple 12 step plan for greatness: 1. Sell your ability to process before getting anyone from IT to give a realistic idea of the effort required. 2. Get some bloke in the processing department, Bill or Eric or Alan* or something to write an Access/VBA system 2a. Wait until the 100,000s transactions per day fill up the 2GB limit on the database. This takes about 3 months BTW. 3. Contact IT to get them to fix the problem. Then make sure everyone know this is the now the top development priority. 4. Put a cack team of two developers onto it: one a graduate developer whose experience is in another framework, the other who [seemingly] hasn't kept up to date for 8 years. 5. Don't keep tabs on the chaps as they descend into their silo and don't contact the processing department. 6. Enjoy the mayhem as the system isn't even close to what is needed. 7. Throw very experienced devs into the team to sort the problems (and replace the original devs, who sensibly leave). Don't listen to the senior's recommmendations: drop this as fixing it will take longer. 8. Continue to ignore this advice from multiple sources as we are always "just around the corner". For 24 months. 9. Basque in the delight as the processing department assume each dev is stupid because a) Point 6 is their experience [legitimate] b) None of the developers understand the business requirements immediately through some telepathic process presumably [not]. 10. Revel in the warm glow of having glorfied clerks talk down to the experienced (and highly qualified) devs like, erm, glorfied clerks. Don't make any attempt to stop this, it will only raise morale in the already angry dev team. 11. Ensure that, instead of actually changing the system, you continue pargeting what you have, so adding to the big ball of mud and each fix breaks at least one other thing. 12. Watch as your most senior dev leaves, followed by each team member who has been forced to work on the project for more than a month. Great Sucess! I've been gone now for a good while, my contacts inform me they are still trying to fix the original system. At least they've got the records to check correctly for the first time. In the pr
Haha, I like your "pseudonym".
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I have found that the second a client finds out what can (potentially) be done with MS Access (or any other cheap solution) they then try to see how much work they can get done with this database software program. This is a bad thing in so many respects and on so many levels. I proposed C# with SQL Server - minimum. They wanted and "they payed" my company to see what I can get done with Access 2007. I told them their dreams will turn into nightmares in less than one month's time. They did not believe me. My advice and concerns have turned into reality. Microsoft Access is not meant to be a multi-user data entry system...it is not dependable and it crashes all the time and is constantly prone to corruption. Even Microsoft says that Access is not meant for this kind of work. I had no choice in the matter. I don't work for myself. I am not independently wealthy. I "need" this job right now; I have a family and bills to pay. Yet I am forced into working in a constant state of futility. Our client is a big-house and pays very well. Why couldn't they pay for the right solution to the problem the first time instead of taking the "usual" cheap man's way out is beyond me. I don't even know why my company allowed this contract to take off in the first place (a side from the money). I am emotionally spent. I need a vacation. They want me and another dumb-ass programmer to do a "complete" re-write. Thanks for reading.
Slacker007 wrote:
hey want me and another dumb-ass programmer to do a "complete" re-write.
I guess that a chap of your calibre will already know about this but just in case SQL Server Migration Assistant for Access (SSMA for Access)[^]
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
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Slacker007 wrote:
hey want me and another dumb-ass programmer to do a "complete" re-write.
I guess that a chap of your calibre will already know about this but just in case SQL Server Migration Assistant for Access (SSMA for Access)[^]
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
Thanks for posting the link. I have seen SSMA before...never used it though. You are able to do this through Access 2007 as well. Some of the data types change and the formatting is changed as well for some data types but this is to be expected and can be worked with in the long run.
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Why should web apps skip transactions? Anything that requires more than one statement requires a transaction IMHO.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
Yes. That's the way I see it too. Immagine what your code will look like if you want to reverse several steps after an error. What a waste of time. And it's not like there are no other databases around which do support transactions.
A while ago he asked me what he should have printed on my business cards. I said 'Wizard'. I read books which nobody else understand. Then I do something which nobody understands. After that the computer does something which nobody understands. When asked, I say things about the results which nobody understand. But everybody expects miracles from me on a regular basis. Looks to me like the classical definition of a wizard.
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If you feel that way, then you shouldn't work for others. You should be in business for yourself. As long as you work for others, they will always make you do stuff that you feel is stupid. What I'm trying to do is give you a piece of advice: Don't take things so seriously - otherwise you will NEVER be content with your lot in life!
1f y0u c4n r34d 7h15 y0u r3411y n33d 70 g37 14!d Gotta run; I've got people to do and things to see... Don't tell my folks I'm a computer programmer - They think I'm a piano player in a cat house... Da mihi sis crustum Etruscum cum omnibus in eo!
Johnny J. wrote:
If you feel that way, then you shouldn't work for others. You should be in business for yourself. As long as you work for others, they will always make you do stuff that you feel is stupid.
How is being in business for yourself different from working for others? It was the client that was at fault here, not the bosses. A new startup can't afford to be choosy about customers, so the new startup ends up with even crappier assignments. We all work for others (insert Adam Smith quote here)
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That's one I can buy! And also if you're looking for a single file solution as MS Access, there's SQL Server Compact Edition. But it's not quite as versatile as the Express version.
1f y0u c4n r34d 7h15 y0u r3411y n33d 70 g37 14!d Gotta run; I've got people to do and things to see... Don't tell my folks I'm a computer programmer - They think I'm a piano player in a cat house... Da mihi sis crustum Etruscum cum omnibus in eo!
I've used MySQL and SQL Express for free databases (also SQL Server standard and enterprise) - SQL Express is good if you are familiar with SQL Server, and your database won't exceed 10 GB (2008) or 4GB (2005-). Doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the full version, but has all the data storage features. The InnoDB engine in MySQL supports transactions and foreign keys, and my experiences with it were quite good. I left the company I developed a fairly large project with quite a bit of data being processed and they switched to SQL Server - only to see the data upload (this happened weekly or monthly for every client, and they were looking to do some clients daily - several GB of flat file upload) take 3 times as long with SQL Server. Which is to say, while you may prefer SQL Server, I wouldn't consider MySQL a toy (although I would be concerned with the current politics surrounding it). Currently I maintain a .NET application running over SQL Server - we use Express for small customers (some even run SQL Server and application on the same desktop), and standard or enterprise for larger customers - nice thing is the codebase is the same, just change the connection string.
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I have found that the second a client finds out what can (potentially) be done with MS Access (or any other cheap solution) they then try to see how much work they can get done with this database software program. This is a bad thing in so many respects and on so many levels. I proposed C# with SQL Server - minimum. They wanted and "they payed" my company to see what I can get done with Access 2007. I told them their dreams will turn into nightmares in less than one month's time. They did not believe me. My advice and concerns have turned into reality. Microsoft Access is not meant to be a multi-user data entry system...it is not dependable and it crashes all the time and is constantly prone to corruption. Even Microsoft says that Access is not meant for this kind of work. I had no choice in the matter. I don't work for myself. I am not independently wealthy. I "need" this job right now; I have a family and bills to pay. Yet I am forced into working in a constant state of futility. Our client is a big-house and pays very well. Why couldn't they pay for the right solution to the problem the first time instead of taking the "usual" cheap man's way out is beyond me. I don't even know why my company allowed this contract to take off in the first place (a side from the money). I am emotionally spent. I need a vacation. They want me and another dumb-ass programmer to do a "complete" re-write. Thanks for reading.
PC's are never ment to run Enterprise Solutions, but Enterprises do. Oracle is an other solution, but not cheap. Access is mostly done, to have quick a solution and than the Enterprise think that's it ! Then the wanted to use it and think, that everybody must use this and that is where it is not ment for, because it's ment to run for 1 person on a Personal Computer, instead of a mainframe or mini. That's the mistake.
Fred
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Not really. MySQL may be fast, but that's about it. As I see it, this speed is bought by omitting some very useful things like transactions. And transactions are a thing I do not like to have to do without.
A while ago he asked me what he should have printed on my business cards. I said 'Wizard'. I read books which nobody else understand. Then I do something which nobody understands. After that the computer does something which nobody understands. When asked, I say things about the results which nobody understand. But everybody expects miracles from me on a regular basis. Looks to me like the classical definition of a wizard.
Did you look into Azure pricing? http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/sqlazure/default.aspx[^]
CDP1802 wrote:
A while ago he asked me what he should have printed on my business cards. I said 'Wizard'. I read books which nobody else understand. Then I do something which nobody understands. After that the computer does something which nobody understands. When asked, I say things about the results which nobody understand. But everybody expects miracles from me on a regular basis. Looks to me like the classical definition of a wizard.
LOL