Small Basic - Success Story [modified]
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Mike Hankey wrote:
I agree with Henry, don't push to hard or he may become disinterested. The object is to give him things to do to challenge him but not so hard that he gets discouraged.
I agree. It is easier said than done. I am trying to figure out where is the line where too much challenge bends to discouragement. I know I can always pull back whenever I see he has hard time grasping ideas, but that might be too late.
Yusuf May I help you?
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Yusuf wrote:
Do you think it is proper to jump him to js. I don't know if it will the right tool to teach programming.
You need to be there for him to teach him good programming practices regardless of the language. The main reason I am suggesting JavaScript is that it is rewarding - he can code a dynamic web page and show it to his friends quickly. If you start bugging him with concepts such as OOP, he'll just lose interest.
Yep, looks like Small Basic does run in the browser: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/smallbasic/archive/2010/03/08/small-basic-now-with-silverlight.aspx
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Last weekend my son (who is 11 years old) won NetBook on local quiz competition. I was so ecstatic and I suggested we install Small Basic[^] to get him into programming. In the past, I introduced him into some programming including Lego. But I was not that enthusiastic about Lego, where as Small Basic[^] felt right approach into hard core programming. Yesterday was his first day reading about the Small Basic. By the time I got home, he already brushed through the console application part and got the gist of basic programming ( the typical basics such as variables, writing/reading from console, simple text concatenation, conditional statements, and loops). By the time I noticed where he was, he was reading Loops. I got skeptical and asked him to explain to me For and While loops and their difference. His explanation was perfect. Then I asked him to convert the For loop into while loop and the while loop into For loop. Boom he did it ( I swear he did not said plz snd codz ;P ). I am amazed at his speed and comprehension. I have few assignments lines up for him. After we finish with Small Basic, I am thinking to give him some grounds on OOP and then thinking to slowly introduce him to C#. I was skeptical but seen what he has mastered in single day, I feel he can grasp OOP and C#. What do you think? If you have to transition a kid from Small Basic, what would be your next step? Please don't say VB. [Edit] Fixed Small Basic URL mess-up [/Edit] [Edit2] Based on popular question added my son's age [/Edit2]
Yusuf May I help you?
modified on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 12:14 PM
Give him unreachable goals, and saddle him with unreasonable requirements and arbitrary restrictions. If you want him to be a programmer, you should prepare him to deal with real-world managers...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Give him unreachable goals, and saddle him with unreasonable requirements and arbitrary restrictions. If you want him to be a programmer, you should prepare him to deal with real-world managers...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997"Impossible, but doable."
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Why not ask him what he would ultimately like to develop and try to build up to that.
Hassan
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Last weekend my son (who is 11 years old) won NetBook on local quiz competition. I was so ecstatic and I suggested we install Small Basic[^] to get him into programming. In the past, I introduced him into some programming including Lego. But I was not that enthusiastic about Lego, where as Small Basic[^] felt right approach into hard core programming. Yesterday was his first day reading about the Small Basic. By the time I got home, he already brushed through the console application part and got the gist of basic programming ( the typical basics such as variables, writing/reading from console, simple text concatenation, conditional statements, and loops). By the time I noticed where he was, he was reading Loops. I got skeptical and asked him to explain to me For and While loops and their difference. His explanation was perfect. Then I asked him to convert the For loop into while loop and the while loop into For loop. Boom he did it ( I swear he did not said plz snd codz ;P ). I am amazed at his speed and comprehension. I have few assignments lines up for him. After we finish with Small Basic, I am thinking to give him some grounds on OOP and then thinking to slowly introduce him to C#. I was skeptical but seen what he has mastered in single day, I feel he can grasp OOP and C#. What do you think? If you have to transition a kid from Small Basic, what would be your next step? Please don't say VB. [Edit] Fixed Small Basic URL mess-up [/Edit] [Edit2] Based on popular question added my son's age [/Edit2]
Yusuf May I help you?
modified on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 12:14 PM
"Pushing in a direction" comment aside (as I feel others have already touched on that). IF he seems interested, Pass him OOD and C#. Also after that, XNA framework. Reason I say XNA is due the video game development aspect. To see what he can create (Virtual Lego in a way). or, Introduce him to webdesign.
///////////////// Groucho Marx Those are my principles, if you don't like them… I have others.
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Give him unreachable goals, and saddle him with unreasonable requirements and arbitrary restrictions. If you want him to be a programmer, you should prepare him to deal with real-world managers...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997Ok, let me see: take him to shooting range to teach him how to shoot, give him unreliable gun, set variable target distance and target sizes and ask him to shoot at moving target and hit the bull's eye every time. Your real world description is fine, but when teaching someone you want start with controlled environment, not unpredictable environments. Once he graduates from the controlled environment then introduce him to the real world.
Yusuf May I help you?
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By all means let him run as far as he wants to! Little boys are brilliant compared to grown ones; we only get stupid once we discover girls. Your thinking is sound; let him get comfy in Small Basic, then use some examples of real world objects to demonstrate the OOP principles. Hand him C# and let him play with it - he'll probably have a blast. Another good toy is GameMaker, which is a free program (the pro version is only $25) that uses OOP principles to build very functional games, even using threads and synchronization. That might be a good start before destroying his brain with Windows events.
Will Rogers never met me.
Windows events will be a thing of the past in years to come, let alone programming. More and more people struggling for fewer and fewer jobs, basically once the clould arrives you may as well kiss this business good bye.
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Yusuf wrote:
I introduced him into some programming including Lego
Lego, or Logo?
Yusuf wrote:
After we finish with Small Basic, I am thinking to give him some grounds on OOP and then thinking to slowly introduce him to C#.
Don't. It will be boring to him (heck, it is boring to me). Better teach him something like JavaScript or even Python.
Get him to write a small operating system, something simple, Pick, DOS, VMS :)
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Give him unreachable goals, and saddle him with unreasonable requirements and arbitrary restrictions. If you want him to be a programmer, you should prepare him to deal with real-world managers...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997Yep, pay him peanuts and throw him in a cubicle, eventually he'll want something better in life ;)
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Ok, let me see: take him to shooting range to teach him how to shoot, give him unreliable gun, set variable target distance and target sizes and ask him to shoot at moving target and hit the bull's eye every time. Your real world description is fine, but when teaching someone you want start with controlled environment, not unpredictable environments. Once he graduates from the controlled environment then introduce him to the real world.
Yusuf May I help you?
I don't mark my posts as humor because I'm universally recognized as being naturally funny, and most people just get it.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Get him to write a small operating system, something simple, Pick, DOS, VMS :)
Norm .net wrote:
VMS
Yeah, I look forward to wheeling one of my AlphaServers and a VT220 into my kid's classroom to show 'em how it used to be done, what an enterprise operating system looks like... I can set up a wireless router and let them telnet in from their cell phones. :rolleyes: (There is an app for that, right?)
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"Impossible, but doable."
Inconceivable!
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Norm .net wrote:
VMS
Yeah, I look forward to wheeling one of my AlphaServers and a VT220 into my kid's classroom to show 'em how it used to be done, what an enterprise operating system looks like... I can set up a wireless router and let them telnet in from their cell phones. :rolleyes: (There is an app for that, right?)
:thumbsup:, whilst they getting to grips with VMS, I'll crank up an old McDonnel Douglas Reality Server to boot.
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
Lego, or Logo?
You know what I mean ;)
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
Don't. It will be boring to him (heck, it is boring to me). Better teach him something like JavaScript or even Python.
When he read about Logo he came about the term Javascript and he asked me what it was. Do you think it is proper to jump him to js. I don't know if it will the right tool to teach programming.
Yusuf May I help you?
Actually not as stupid as it sounds allowing for Mindstorms, but I'd hold back on that 'til he's got the basics.
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Mike Hankey wrote:
I agree with Henry, don't push to hard or he may become disinterested. The object is to give him things to do to challenge him but not so hard that he gets discouraged.
I agree. It is easier said than done. I am trying to figure out where is the line where too much challenge bends to discouragement. I know I can always pull back whenever I see he has hard time grasping ideas, but that might be too late.
Yusuf May I help you?
Try thinking of specific tasks that he could develop a program for. When I learned programming at university, some 25 years ago, I found the tasks we were being given were too easy, so I often ended up adding stuff. For instance when we were asked to develop a program that reads a year and calculates the date of easter in that year, I put a loop around it to find years for which easter coincided with the birthday of a friend of mine. Similarly, when we were asked to evaluate a game position (for the game Kalah) using min-max trees, I've added a loop, a printout for the current game position, and inputs for making a move, to construct a full-fledged game out of it. Maybe you can present your son with problems like that: something that is at the core of a greater problem - if he likes the problem he might feel like adding the remaining bits, if not he can move on to a problem he likes better. Board games (such as Kalah, mentioned above) would probably be best to get him interested. Other options would be real-time games such as Tetris that require timely input validation, and corresponding graphical output. (in fact, one of my very first programs I did outside university was a Tetris clone) I'd think a lot of the very early Atari VCS 2600 console games could be implemented with little effort as well, especially those working on the basic 40*25 character screen resolution. ;) I'm thinking of stuff like Pong, Breakout, or Outlaw. Of course, if you never had an Atari VCS it might be hard to get an idea how these games looked like :cool: [edit]fixed date reference[/edit]
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Oops forgot that part. He is 11.
Yusuf May I help you?
Thanks, I think it's the perfect age to get him into this, assuming he's interested! Dad and son can code together soon :-)
Regards, Nish
New article available: Resetting a View Model in WPF MVVM applications without code-behind in the view My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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Last weekend my son (who is 11 years old) won NetBook on local quiz competition. I was so ecstatic and I suggested we install Small Basic[^] to get him into programming. In the past, I introduced him into some programming including Lego. But I was not that enthusiastic about Lego, where as Small Basic[^] felt right approach into hard core programming. Yesterday was his first day reading about the Small Basic. By the time I got home, he already brushed through the console application part and got the gist of basic programming ( the typical basics such as variables, writing/reading from console, simple text concatenation, conditional statements, and loops). By the time I noticed where he was, he was reading Loops. I got skeptical and asked him to explain to me For and While loops and their difference. His explanation was perfect. Then I asked him to convert the For loop into while loop and the while loop into For loop. Boom he did it ( I swear he did not said plz snd codz ;P ). I am amazed at his speed and comprehension. I have few assignments lines up for him. After we finish with Small Basic, I am thinking to give him some grounds on OOP and then thinking to slowly introduce him to C#. I was skeptical but seen what he has mastered in single day, I feel he can grasp OOP and C#. What do you think? If you have to transition a kid from Small Basic, what would be your next step? Please don't say VB. [Edit] Fixed Small Basic URL mess-up [/Edit] [Edit2] Based on popular question added my son's age [/Edit2]
Yusuf May I help you?
modified on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 12:14 PM
I introduced it to my daughter last year. She was very interested in doing the turtle thing for a couple of days, then quit. She was 8. It seems she needs more time.
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Last weekend my son (who is 11 years old) won NetBook on local quiz competition. I was so ecstatic and I suggested we install Small Basic[^] to get him into programming. In the past, I introduced him into some programming including Lego. But I was not that enthusiastic about Lego, where as Small Basic[^] felt right approach into hard core programming. Yesterday was his first day reading about the Small Basic. By the time I got home, he already brushed through the console application part and got the gist of basic programming ( the typical basics such as variables, writing/reading from console, simple text concatenation, conditional statements, and loops). By the time I noticed where he was, he was reading Loops. I got skeptical and asked him to explain to me For and While loops and their difference. His explanation was perfect. Then I asked him to convert the For loop into while loop and the while loop into For loop. Boom he did it ( I swear he did not said plz snd codz ;P ). I am amazed at his speed and comprehension. I have few assignments lines up for him. After we finish with Small Basic, I am thinking to give him some grounds on OOP and then thinking to slowly introduce him to C#. I was skeptical but seen what he has mastered in single day, I feel he can grasp OOP and C#. What do you think? If you have to transition a kid from Small Basic, what would be your next step? Please don't say VB. [Edit] Fixed Small Basic URL mess-up [/Edit] [Edit2] Based on popular question added my son's age [/Edit2]
Yusuf May I help you?
modified on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 12:14 PM
Despite what you say, my first instinct was to suggest VB.NET and then C#. If you want him to learn OOP then you definitely have to introduce the concept of design patterns. An alternative might be to introduce him to the concept of virtualisation by running up an instance of Linux in Virtual Box. From there you could introduce him to C and scripting languages. And of course there is Java. If you can get him comfortable in the Linux environment then all manner of possibilites open up.