So I gave a dev a choice yesterday
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Rene Pilon wrote:
They're probably both looking at job sites as I write this ...
Hmmm one of them is not in this morning - suspicious... If you think as a developer you will not be required to write doco then you will be sadly disappointed. In most (all) corporate shops there is no such thing as a technical writer, the closest I have seen is where we have hired an agency to to this.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Mycroft Holmes wrote:
write doco
Sorry? Doco? Documentation? Developers are (mostly) the worst document writers in the known universe.
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
_Maxxx_ wrote:
Developers are (mostly) the worst document writers in the known universe.
Indeed. And it's a hard won skill,too.
"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them." Eric Hoffer "The failure mode of 'clever' is 'asshole'" John Scalzi
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We had a requirement that needed someone to write some VBA macros in Excel (2003) yesterday, both devs on the team denied any knowledge of VB/VBA/VB.Net I gave them a choice of doing the job in VBA or documentation, we should have some great manuals for this project. I was astonished that a person who calls himself a developer has no knowledge of office or macro programming, I thought we all got dipped in that stuff at some time.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
both devs on the team denied any knowledge of VB/VBA/VB.Net
Same here. What is this VB thing exactly?
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Haha, yes.
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You wouldn't hire me. I wouldn't let you. I've actually programmed about 2000 lines of it but I disavow any knowledge of it (except for here of course). ;P I know about 100 programming languages and vba is one I'm happy to put behind me.
Aside from all the arguments about the faults with VBA, I really don't understand the antipathy towards it (other than from a language design POV). At the end of the day (and I don't want to rekindle the religious language wars here!) a programming language (however good or bad) is a tool - you can do a good (or bad) job with it regardless of its nature. For lots of scenarios, using the built-in (ie VBA) when producing something for a client in Access or Excel makes much more sense than developing a full-on, multi-user, mathematically proven system based around MS SQL on Server 2008 using C#/LINQ etc, especially when all they wanted was automated production of a report based on a few figures in a spreadsheet. As my father used to say: "A bad workman always blames his tools..." 8) There's far too much "over-engineering" in the software development world, it seems to me...
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We had a requirement that needed someone to write some VBA macros in Excel (2003) yesterday, both devs on the team denied any knowledge of VB/VBA/VB.Net I gave them a choice of doing the job in VBA or documentation, we should have some great manuals for this project. I was astonished that a person who calls himself a developer has no knowledge of office or macro programming, I thought we all got dipped in that stuff at some time.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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We had a requirement that needed someone to write some VBA macros in Excel (2003) yesterday, both devs on the team denied any knowledge of VB/VBA/VB.Net I gave them a choice of doing the job in VBA or documentation, we should have some great manuals for this project. I was astonished that a person who calls himself a developer has no knowledge of office or macro programming, I thought we all got dipped in that stuff at some time.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
The closest I ever came to VB/VBA/.NET were my (partially successful) attempts at integrating Excel table views in an application using OLE2, some 15 years ago. It was a nightmare, as all variables were declared 'Variant'. and there was no explanation at all anywhere in the documentation that told me what actual types were expected, what each parameter meant, and in what order they were supposed to be passed. There weren't even parameter names in the documentation that you could base an educated guess on, it was just trial and error! Note that I was using both the official documentation (i. e. the Excel help files) and a pair of very insightful 'behind the scenes' books about OLE2, but as I said, there were no parameter level explanations to be found anywhere at the time! Not to mention that quite a few functions weren't defined as described in the documentation, were varying dependend on the actual OS version, or delivered different results. Based on that experience you can imagine I avoided any successor of that abomination like the plague, be it COM, VBA, or .NET. (and sorry: anything that got 'Basic' in its name isn't considered a programming language by me) I realize that the documentation and the stability of the interface got to have improved in the meantime, but I still nourish a strong loathing for anything in that direction. Thankfully I was never required to touch any of this again, not even with a hot poker. So no, I do not have any knowledge of VB(A)/.NET either. I've programmed in C++ when compiling still required two steps and templates weren't fully supported, long before the time of OLE and it's successors, and I'm still programming in C++ today, knowing that most of today's C++ programs could be compiled with compilers written 20 years ago. Call me conservative if you want to, but I don't like proprietary, platform dependend languages that change every time time the OS or Office version changes.
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We had a requirement that needed someone to write some VBA macros in Excel (2003) yesterday, both devs on the team denied any knowledge of VB/VBA/VB.Net I gave them a choice of doing the job in VBA or documentation, we should have some great manuals for this project. I was astonished that a person who calls himself a developer has no knowledge of office or macro programming, I thought we all got dipped in that stuff at some time.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
I was astonished that a person who calls himself a developer has no knowledge of office or macro programming
I worked on a team where only one member (me) out of six knew anything about VBA.
I must get a clever new signature for 2011.
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We had a requirement that needed someone to write some VBA macros in Excel (2003) yesterday, both devs on the team denied any knowledge of VB/VBA/VB.Net I gave them a choice of doing the job in VBA or documentation, we should have some great manuals for this project. I was astonished that a person who calls himself a developer has no knowledge of office or macro programming, I thought we all got dipped in that stuff at some time.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Mycroft Holmes wrote:
I was astonished that a person who calls himself a developer has no knowledge of office or macro programming
I worked on a team where only one member (me) out of six knew anything about VBA.
I must get a clever new signature for 2011.
It turns out my PM/BA has some experience so I'll dump the initial bits on her and the junior can bloody well take over from there. As someone else stated, any developer should be able to pick up VBA macros very quickly.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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From memory (haven't used it in ages) I don't think it's much different from VB6, not exactly the best environment to work in but nowhere near as bad as VBScript. At least you can still use option explicit and keep some sanity.
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We had a requirement that needed someone to write some VBA macros in Excel (2003) yesterday, both devs on the team denied any knowledge of VB/VBA/VB.Net I gave them a choice of doing the job in VBA or documentation, we should have some great manuals for this project. I was astonished that a person who calls himself a developer has no knowledge of office or macro programming, I thought we all got dipped in that stuff at some time.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
I've never done office macros...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
I've never done office macros...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997Yeah but they dipped you in VB.Net if I recall.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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We had a requirement that needed someone to write some VBA macros in Excel (2003) yesterday, both devs on the team denied any knowledge of VB/VBA/VB.Net I gave them a choice of doing the job in VBA or documentation, we should have some great manuals for this project. I was astonished that a person who calls himself a developer has no knowledge of office or macro programming, I thought we all got dipped in that stuff at some time.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Programming in VBA is very useful. I did some for ACAD, Word and Excel. It's easy, all you have to do is press F1 and learn few new commands. Still, overworked people can't do that. Or people that use drugs. Or people that hate their bosses for some reason. Or just too comfortable and arrogant people...
I like being sober. It gives some kind of quality to life that I can't really put my finger on... it is like running life from console way less colors but so much more control.
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Dalek Dave wrote:
I would not hire anybody who denied VBA!
I am a VBA guru. I don't look at VBA as bad but as a tool for the job. I unlike most others, started with VBA and VB. Then moved to C++, and C#, etc... If you hate VBA just because it is VBA then you are retarded and on my team you would be a waste of everyone's time. We have to work with VBA from time to time so it is par for the course.
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Yeah but they dipped you in VB.Net if I recall.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
And every day, I remind them in no uncertain terms that I hate VB.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
We had a requirement that needed someone to write some VBA macros in Excel (2003) yesterday, both devs on the team denied any knowledge of VB/VBA/VB.Net I gave them a choice of doing the job in VBA or documentation, we should have some great manuals for this project. I was astonished that a person who calls himself a developer has no knowledge of office or macro programming, I thought we all got dipped in that stuff at some time.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
I've done a bit of tinkering with macros in excel, but it was very basic stuff. I wouldn't claim to have any knowledge of VBA. I'm astonished that both your devs picked documentation over writing code. I'd be jumping at the excel macros to avoid doing documentation. [edit]Ok maybe we need a sarcasm smiley? (maybe we have one that I'm not aware of?)[/edit]
Pete
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And every day, I remind them in no uncertain terms that I hate VB.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997:laugh: :laugh: I do the same for Orable,
did I mention I hate Orablethis is said at least 5 times a day.Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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We had a requirement that needed someone to write some VBA macros in Excel (2003) yesterday, both devs on the team denied any knowledge of VB/VBA/VB.Net I gave them a choice of doing the job in VBA or documentation, we should have some great manuals for this project. I was astonished that a person who calls himself a developer has no knowledge of office or macro programming, I thought we all got dipped in that stuff at some time.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Hmmm, there seems to be many who feel that a useful, time-saving, tool is beneath them. I can never understand this. I use VBA all the time, in Excel, Word, Project, and PowerPoint. I've used VBA to zip files or add to zip files. I've used VBA to temporarily replace one's hosts file to test a new server rather then to inflict it on everyone before it was tested. This removed any possible user problems with those who don't understand the format and function of the hosts file and eliminated the need to develop 1-time documentation to update DNS references in the file. VBA was also used to return the file to it's original state. I've cut code in Adpac, COBOL, Easytrieve, Ramis, PL1, Fortran, Rexx, Focus, VB, VB.Net, JavaScript,and other languages and have used IDMS, IMS, DB2, Access, Oracle, SQL server, MySQL and other DBMS tools. I've used mainframe JCL to establish a TSO session which launched a Clist to open a file. The Clist then launched an Edit macro to parse that file out into sub-files and then use the IBM Send Utility to send the individual files to users that were identified in the data. I completed a project estimated to take over 2000 hours in 70 hours by using the COBOL Report Writer. All these were tools used to solve a business problem. It seems to me that to discount the use of a tool that can easily solve business problems and can do so quickly is optical rectosis. It's as bad as insisting that online CICS screens be modified to pull 2 disparate IMS databases together when a few "on request" reports will do the job in a very small fraction of the time. I'd say that one will just become a more valuable asset to a firm if one delves into VBA and other tools designed to save time and solve problems. This is FAR better than to stubbornly insist that these tools are beneath the hallowed opinions you have of yourselves. LOL
modified on Friday, February 18, 2011 3:24 PM