Old junk or rare and valuable hardware?
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Ok, that's a way to see it. At least it's practical. Still, I see some differences to the painting. The old computer had a practical use, which has declined to almost zero in the last 32 years. The painting, if it hever had one, is just as useful as it ever was. The painting has little material value. A canvas and some paint, no more. The computer's components once cost their weight in gold, now they are worth little more than junk. Based on the reputation of the painter and by being a unicate, the painting had a high idealistic value. Does the computer have an idealistic value? Ok, it's from a time before they were built by millions and it is 'half' unique because such computers were a collection of industrially manufactured components and the owner's constructions. So your reasoning goes along the lines what I always say: It's totally unimportant what I can or cannot do. The only thing that counts is, what I can make others believe I can do. And now everything is worth what some fool may think it is. Minus the time and costs to find that fool, I might add :)
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverb -
That's an emotional value, and future generations might not share our sentiments.
I are Troll :suss:
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Mike Hankey wrote:
Yeah back then I didn't have a problem remembering things!
I hear you. :(( These days I am lucky if I remember what I had for lunch. Of course on the weekend it is easy, tiquilla. :-D
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesJimmyRopes wrote:
Of course on the weekend it is easy, tiquilla.
My drink of choice...along with Mezcal, love that worm.
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
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JimmyRopes wrote:
Of course on the weekend it is easy, tiquilla.
My drink of choice...along with Mezcal, love that worm.
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
Mike Hankey wrote:
My drink of choice...along with Mezcal
Wow you are hard core. I usually back up a shot of tiquilla with a :beer:. :laugh:
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
CDP1802 wrote:
Self modifying code was very common, but already then considered a sinister hack
It is what kept you up at night when you had to modify something you coded six months before. These days I have a rule of thumb; code like the person that is going to maintain your code is a psycopath who knows where you live.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesIt is what kept you up at night drove you crazy when you had to modify something you coded six months before. FTFY
JimmyRopes wrote:
code like the person that is going to maintain your code is a psycopath who knows where you live.
He is and he does. :)
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
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CDP1802 wrote:
An Altair Smile Great, they came as kits as well and had no graphics at all.
Just lights and switches.
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
My Elf II is one step away from that. The original Elf's switches had been replaced by a hex keypad, the lights are still there, but more in the form of 7 segment LED displays, hexadecimal of course. And it had primitive and extremely simple (on the hardware side) graphics. The graphics chip (a CDP1861) simply fetches the graphics data with DMA and is hooked up directly to the bus. Additionally only a few resistors to the video signal are needed.
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverb -
Mike Hankey wrote:
My drink of choice...along with Mezcal
Wow you are hard core. I usually back up a shot of tiquilla with a :beer:. :laugh:
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesSorry misrepresented myself I also back it up with beer. My statement should have been; My drink of choice when I can't get Mezcal.
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
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My Elf II is one step away from that. The original Elf's switches had been replaced by a hex keypad, the lights are still there, but more in the form of 7 segment LED displays, hexadecimal of course. And it had primitive and extremely simple (on the hardware side) graphics. The graphics chip (a CDP1861) simply fetches the graphics data with DMA and is hooked up directly to the bus. Additionally only a few resistors to the video signal are needed.
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverbThat's what I like about the stuff I'm working with now, it's a lot more versatile and easy to wire up peripherals. The only problem I have is like you stated on an earlier post the circuit boards. I just got the stuff to make my own and I'm going to try it some time this week...wish me luck.
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
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Ok, that's a way to see it. At least it's practical. Still, I see some differences to the painting. The old computer had a practical use, which has declined to almost zero in the last 32 years. The painting, if it hever had one, is just as useful as it ever was. The painting has little material value. A canvas and some paint, no more. The computer's components once cost their weight in gold, now they are worth little more than junk. Based on the reputation of the painter and by being a unicate, the painting had a high idealistic value. Does the computer have an idealistic value? Ok, it's from a time before they were built by millions and it is 'half' unique because such computers were a collection of industrially manufactured components and the owner's constructions. So your reasoning goes along the lines what I always say: It's totally unimportant what I can or cannot do. The only thing that counts is, what I can make others believe I can do. And now everything is worth what some fool may think it is. Minus the time and costs to find that fool, I might add :)
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverbCDP1802 wrote:
And now everything is worth what some fool may think it is. Minus the time and costs to find that fool, I might add
Hey, be nice. They're customers! Not fools. :)
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
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That's what I like about the stuff I'm working with now, it's a lot more versatile and easy to wire up peripherals. The only problem I have is like you stated on an earlier post the circuit boards. I just got the stuff to make my own and I'm going to try it some time this week...wish me luck.
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
Really? If it's about soldering and building, and not about performance, then I would suggest you build an Elf :) The CPU is a bit hard to get, but still in production. Other antiquities, like the RAMs, can easily be replaced by more modern parts. Most of the rest will be simple TTL or (better) CMOS logic. If you like, I can show a user group over at Yahoo for new and ancient Elves. This here is the original Elf: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:COSMAC_ELF_CHM.jpg[^] As you can see, not a too huge project. And this is a 'naked' Elf II, essentially the same with hex keyboard and bus slots: http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/accession/X1535.98[^] And finally an Elf II in its case with more IO and RAM: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wcrpaul/335035144/[^]
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverb -
Really? If it's about soldering and building, and not about performance, then I would suggest you build an Elf :) The CPU is a bit hard to get, but still in production. Other antiquities, like the RAMs, can easily be replaced by more modern parts. Most of the rest will be simple TTL or (better) CMOS logic. If you like, I can show a user group over at Yahoo for new and ancient Elves. This here is the original Elf: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:COSMAC_ELF_CHM.jpg[^] As you can see, not a too huge project. And this is a 'naked' Elf II, essentially the same with hex keyboard and bus slots: http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/accession/X1535.98[^] And finally an Elf II in its case with more IO and RAM: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wcrpaul/335035144/[^]
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverbYou know looking back I think that is the unit I wanted to buy but couldn't afford. My ex-wife kept me poor...the more I made the poorer I got.
CDP1802 wrote:
Really? If it's about soldering and building, and not about performance, then I would suggest you build an Elf
I really enjoy the uController I'm working with now and have had a lot of fun wiring all different kinds of peripherals to it. I'm still learning as they are a lot more powerful now but it keeps me busy since I'm semi-retired.
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
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It's been 30 yrs and I've been learning AVR assembler lately so that came out instead. :-O
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
And I was talking about the instructions on my old computer's CPU. But my Atari later also had a 6502 :)
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverb -
CDP1802 wrote:
And now everything is worth what some fool may think it is. Minus the time and costs to find that fool, I might add
Hey, be nice. They're customers! Not fools. :)
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
Oh no! Not that again. That's exactly what our boss also preached a week ago :) And since then we are paying utmost attention to our customers. By making fun of them.
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverb -
Yeah I know all 56 even as bad as my memory is I can still remember one. NOP = 0x00 :)
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
Mike Hankey wrote:
NOP = 0x00
That seems to be a constant in all assemblers I have worked with, I think (DEC-10, DEC-11) but these were in college (40+ years ogo) or early in my professional life (30+ years ago). I am not sure if IBM assembler (BAL) even had a NOP or NOOP. I don't remember it. In some sense what else would it be?
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Mike Hankey wrote:
NOP = 0x00
That seems to be a constant in all assemblers I have worked with, I think (DEC-10, DEC-11) but these were in college (40+ years ogo) or early in my professional life (30+ years ago). I am not sure if IBM assembler (BAL) even had a NOP or NOOP. I don't remember it. In some sense what else would it be?
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes0xEA... 0x90... to name a few :)
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Mike Hankey wrote:
NOP = 0x00
That seems to be a constant in all assemblers I have worked with, I think (DEC-10, DEC-11) but these were in college (40+ years ogo) or early in my professional life (30+ years ago). I am not sure if IBM assembler (BAL) even had a NOP or NOOP. I don't remember it. In some sense what else would it be?
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesAs I wrote somewhere higher up: 0xC4 in case of my old machine. 0x00 would have been IDL (idle), which would for most purposes stop all execution until the next reset. The CPU would just keep executing IDL over and over again without incrementing the program counter.
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverb -
0xEA... 0x90... to name a few :)
You're right. Now that I think of it Intel x86 uses one of those. I was trying to remember things from 20-30 years ago and as I have stated before I have a hard time remembering what I had for lunch.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
As I wrote somewhere higher up: 0xC4 in case of my old machine. 0x00 would have been IDL (idle), which would for most purposes stop all execution until the next reset. The CPU would just keep executing IDL over and over again without incrementing the program counter.
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverbYou're right I just didn't remember things too well from 20-30 years ago.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Mine of course is priceless - to me. I had to let some sweat and blood to get it and kept it working for 32 years. And occasionally I take the old horse for a ride. Programming just one hex keyboard away from the CPU has something of Zen. And I like the old CPU. The CDP1802 was always considered to be 'different' or 'strange'. The truth is that it is one of the earliest processors going in the direction of RISC.
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverbCDP1802 wrote:
CDP1802 was always considered to be 'different' or 'strange'
This might be saying more about yourself than you intended. :)
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You're right I just didn't remember things too well from 20-30 years ago.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesLet's say that in a more impressive manner. How about this: You have forgotten more about programming than most young hotshots ever knew. And what's left is more as well :)
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverb
