Old junk or rare and valuable hardware?
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Really? If it's about soldering and building, and not about performance, then I would suggest you build an Elf :) The CPU is a bit hard to get, but still in production. Other antiquities, like the RAMs, can easily be replaced by more modern parts. Most of the rest will be simple TTL or (better) CMOS logic. If you like, I can show a user group over at Yahoo for new and ancient Elves. This here is the original Elf: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:COSMAC_ELF_CHM.jpg[^] As you can see, not a too huge project. And this is a 'naked' Elf II, essentially the same with hex keyboard and bus slots: http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/accession/X1535.98[^] And finally an Elf II in its case with more IO and RAM: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wcrpaul/335035144/[^]
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverbYou know looking back I think that is the unit I wanted to buy but couldn't afford. My ex-wife kept me poor...the more I made the poorer I got.
CDP1802 wrote:
Really? If it's about soldering and building, and not about performance, then I would suggest you build an Elf
I really enjoy the uController I'm working with now and have had a lot of fun wiring all different kinds of peripherals to it. I'm still learning as they are a lot more powerful now but it keeps me busy since I'm semi-retired.
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
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It's been 30 yrs and I've been learning AVR assembler lately so that came out instead. :-O
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
And I was talking about the instructions on my old computer's CPU. But my Atari later also had a 6502 :)
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverb -
CDP1802 wrote:
And now everything is worth what some fool may think it is. Minus the time and costs to find that fool, I might add
Hey, be nice. They're customers! Not fools. :)
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
Oh no! Not that again. That's exactly what our boss also preached a week ago :) And since then we are paying utmost attention to our customers. By making fun of them.
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverb -
Yeah I know all 56 even as bad as my memory is I can still remember one. NOP = 0x00 :)
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
Mike Hankey wrote:
NOP = 0x00
That seems to be a constant in all assemblers I have worked with, I think (DEC-10, DEC-11) but these were in college (40+ years ogo) or early in my professional life (30+ years ago). I am not sure if IBM assembler (BAL) even had a NOP or NOOP. I don't remember it. In some sense what else would it be?
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Mike Hankey wrote:
NOP = 0x00
That seems to be a constant in all assemblers I have worked with, I think (DEC-10, DEC-11) but these were in college (40+ years ogo) or early in my professional life (30+ years ago). I am not sure if IBM assembler (BAL) even had a NOP or NOOP. I don't remember it. In some sense what else would it be?
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes0xEA... 0x90... to name a few :)
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Mike Hankey wrote:
NOP = 0x00
That seems to be a constant in all assemblers I have worked with, I think (DEC-10, DEC-11) but these were in college (40+ years ogo) or early in my professional life (30+ years ago). I am not sure if IBM assembler (BAL) even had a NOP or NOOP. I don't remember it. In some sense what else would it be?
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesAs I wrote somewhere higher up: 0xC4 in case of my old machine. 0x00 would have been IDL (idle), which would for most purposes stop all execution until the next reset. The CPU would just keep executing IDL over and over again without incrementing the program counter.
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverb -
0xEA... 0x90... to name a few :)
You're right. Now that I think of it Intel x86 uses one of those. I was trying to remember things from 20-30 years ago and as I have stated before I have a hard time remembering what I had for lunch.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
As I wrote somewhere higher up: 0xC4 in case of my old machine. 0x00 would have been IDL (idle), which would for most purposes stop all execution until the next reset. The CPU would just keep executing IDL over and over again without incrementing the program counter.
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverbYou're right I just didn't remember things too well from 20-30 years ago.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Mine of course is priceless - to me. I had to let some sweat and blood to get it and kept it working for 32 years. And occasionally I take the old horse for a ride. Programming just one hex keyboard away from the CPU has something of Zen. And I like the old CPU. The CDP1802 was always considered to be 'different' or 'strange'. The truth is that it is one of the earliest processors going in the direction of RISC.
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverbCDP1802 wrote:
CDP1802 was always considered to be 'different' or 'strange'
This might be saying more about yourself than you intended. :)
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You're right I just didn't remember things too well from 20-30 years ago.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesLet's say that in a more impressive manner. How about this: You have forgotten more about programming than most young hotshots ever knew. And what's left is more as well :)
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverb -
Let's say that in a more impressive manner. How about this: You have forgotten more about programming than most young hotshots ever knew. And what's left is more as well :)
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverbYou are very gracious. :cool:
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
You are very gracious. :cool:
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesA certain young hotshot called me an arrogant a*** for saying this to him. :) In the last years he picked up a few things and from me went to college. Now he likes to say this himself and the other students think he's an arrogant a**. It must be contagious :)
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverb -
Mike Hankey wrote:
NOP = 0x00
That seems to be a constant in all assemblers I have worked with, I think (DEC-10, DEC-11) but these were in college (40+ years ogo) or early in my professional life (30+ years ago). I am not sure if IBM assembler (BAL) even had a NOP or NOOP. I don't remember it. In some sense what else would it be?
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesJimmyRopes wrote:
That seems to be a constant in all assemblers I have worked with,
That's the only reason I remembered it. :)
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
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JimmyRopes wrote:
That seems to be a constant in all assemblers I have worked with,
That's the only reason I remembered it. :)
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
Mike Hankey wrote:
That's the only reason I remembered it.
I thought I remembered it also, but a couple folks proved me wrong. See the other responses to my statement. Sometimes my memory fails me especially after over 30 years. Perhaps it is so for the assembler you were working with, but it is not true, as I thought, for all assemblers. :-O
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Mike Hankey wrote:
That's the only reason I remembered it.
I thought I remembered it also, but a couple folks proved me wrong. See the other responses to my statement. Sometimes my memory fails me especially after over 30 years. Perhaps it is so for the assembler you were working with, but it is not true, as I thought, for all assemblers. :-O
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesI also was proven wrong...hey it's been close to 30 yrs. and with all the brain cells I've managed to exterminate over the years it's a wonder I can remember my name. :)
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
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I also was proven wrong...hey it's been close to 30 yrs. and with all the brain cells I've managed to exterminate over the years it's a wonder I can remember my name. :)
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
Oh well so much for memory. I think I remember when I could rely on mine, but not anymore. :-D I do a lot of googleing these days when I code. It is better than trying to remember how to do things.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Oh well so much for memory. I think I remember when I could rely on mine, but not anymore. :-D I do a lot of googleing these days when I code. It is better than trying to remember how to do things.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesJimmyRopes wrote:
Oh well so much for memory. I think I remember when I could rely on mine, but not anymore.
I can't remember when I had memory. :)
JimmyRopes wrote:
I do a lot of googleing these days when I code. It is better than trying to remember how to do things.
I do the same thing. Have a library of books but it's easier and faster to google...most of the time.
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
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I still have my first computer, a Netronics Elf II from 1978. It was a kit and I had to scrape together my allowance to get parts and components. I did what I could, but I never got all the neat expansions and had to content with 4k RAM and great black and white graphics at a resolution of 64 x 32 pixels or 64 x 64 pixels. Now I came across someone who wants to sell his old computer. Unlike mine it has practically everything the manufacturer had to offer, including several 4k and 16k memory expansion boards. The four 4k cards cost about 110$ each back then. I know. At least I have one of them. And the two 16k cards were extremely expensive. I would be crazy enough to buy it, but it's only sold completely and the seller wants at least 6000$ for it. That price probably would be equivalent to what the entire computer cost back in 1978. I suppose, I will pass on that offer, but what is the right price? The technology is more than obsolete. I could easily get a 64k RAM chip for a few dollars. It would need little additional logic and making the circuit board would be the hardest part. From that perspective, the price is laughable. On the other side it's a rare old machine. I would not hope to find 1000 of them in working condition on the entire planet. But are there really enough people around who are interested enough to pay such a price?
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverbIf you pay $6,000 for it, then that becomes its market value. If you offer $50 and he accepts, then that becomes its market value. If you pay $6,000 for it, and later can't find a buyer who is willing to pay more than $50, you've been screwed. Never buy anything according to the "market value" or "book price". How much something is worth to a hypothetical person is irrelevant, it's what real people will pay that counts, and even if one idiot was stoopid enough to pay $6,000 for a similar pile of obsolete hardware (although I dare say that no-one ever did; it's probably an "estimated value") that doesn't mean that all such piles are worth that much. Consider how much the item is worth to you, and don't pay more than that.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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CDP1802 wrote:
Netronics Elf II from 1978
Don't know about that, but if I ever bump into one of these[^], I'll be seiously tempted.
Interesting, hadn't heard of that before. Seems weird that they'd produce a C64 successor years after the Amiga already replaced it though?
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Mike Hankey wrote:
Back then I could, I knew the instruction set inside and out.
Very impressive! :thumbsup:
Mike Hankey wrote:
One of the work shops was on self modifying code. The group said it couldn't be done until I showed them how.
Some people can never get how to do that even after being shown how. Things like that are what I miss about coding in assembler the most.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesI remember knowing the Z80 instruction set on a similar basis when coding with a ZX81, then Spectrum. That and the Complete Spectrum ROM Disassembly book helped write fairly efficient machine code (I had no assembler!)
