What we are and what is this universe?
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Paul Watson wrote: "I am not a follower of any organised/mass religion. I am still too young to be able to give you a standard answer to this. Many things I am still thinking about, many things I have yet to even start thinking about. I have much life left to live before I can claim any religion or belief system as my own." So you will choose your own religion with time, one which you think is true and you are not bound to choose any. Ok tell me what you think what is our end? where we will eventually go? are we totally destroyed after our deaths? Paul Watson wrote: Right now I believe in the universe and that that is all there is, which in itself is a lot. No being which stands outside of the universe and looks down on us. ok then what you think we have came from? and how did it happen. you see science says, livings things are created from living things and life is not possible out of life-less entities. for example, i you have ever studied biology, it was proved that a non-living cell can't create a living cell, only a living cell can produce another living cell. I wonder, if this is true and has been proven, from where did this very first living cell come from on earth which created other living things. @ish@ check my latest article in .NET section What is Common Language Runtime(CLR)?
I won't answer for Paul but here my $0.2: Aisha Ikram wrote: what is our end? We do not have an end. Aisha Ikram wrote: where we will eventually go? Maggot food. Aisha Ikram wrote: are we totally destroyed after our deaths? Nope. Our body will decompose and act as "food" for the soil and maggots. Cows will eat the grass that used to be bits of your body. A mother will drink that cow's (processed) milk and one day give birth a beautiful baby. So, in a way, we are eternal :) Aisha Ikram wrote: we have came from We evolved. Ever heard of Darwin? Aisha Ikram wrote: you have ever studied biology, it was proved that a non-living cell can't create a living cell, only a living cell can produce another living cell. Bullshit. I have studied biology. Ever heard of Darwin? A "living" cell is considered as living because it exhibits certain properties. Scientists have managed to artificially create "life"; i.e. they got a bunch of chemicals to exhibit certain properties which collectively are called "life". Aisha Ikram wrote: very first living cell Ever heard of Darwin? (I'm getting a sense of deja vu here. Are u? :)) We are ultimately a bunch of chemicals. Chemical properties change and different arrangements can produce different results viz: both me and Saddam Husein can be termed as living but I sure as hell hope I'm different than him. Is reducing human beings to a bunch of chemicals too reductive? In a way it is; after all Leonardo da Vinci/Mozart/Eistein were much more than just a collection of elements. This is where random mutation and evolution come together; a "miracle" happened and the right combination of chemicals along with the right social conditions created these geniuses. If all the above seems simplistic to you or too cynical be my guest; I can understand why people need to believe that a god exists and that life has meaning; that's why people with huge egos used to build pyramids. Most people have an emotional need and don't let the facts get in the way of good story (Bible/Koran/etc). I'm one of those people who don't mind spoiling a good story; I prefer the truth. Brian Azzopardi bibamus, edamus, cras moriemur
[eat, drink, for tomorrow we die]
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Paul Watson wrote: "I am not a follower of any organised/mass religion. I am still too young to be able to give you a standard answer to this. Many things I am still thinking about, many things I have yet to even start thinking about. I have much life left to live before I can claim any religion or belief system as my own." So you will choose your own religion with time, one which you think is true and you are not bound to choose any. Ok tell me what you think what is our end? where we will eventually go? are we totally destroyed after our deaths? Paul Watson wrote: Right now I believe in the universe and that that is all there is, which in itself is a lot. No being which stands outside of the universe and looks down on us. ok then what you think we have came from? and how did it happen. you see science says, livings things are created from living things and life is not possible out of life-less entities. for example, i you have ever studied biology, it was proved that a non-living cell can't create a living cell, only a living cell can produce another living cell. I wonder, if this is true and has been proven, from where did this very first living cell come from on earth which created other living things. @ish@ check my latest article in .NET section What is Common Language Runtime(CLR)?
Aisha Ikram wrote: you see science says, livings things are created from living things and life is not possible out of life-less entities No it doesn't. I would really like to know where that statement came from ! Elaine (evolved fluffy tigress) Would you like to meet my teddy bear ?
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I won't answer for Paul but here my $0.2: Aisha Ikram wrote: what is our end? We do not have an end. Aisha Ikram wrote: where we will eventually go? Maggot food. Aisha Ikram wrote: are we totally destroyed after our deaths? Nope. Our body will decompose and act as "food" for the soil and maggots. Cows will eat the grass that used to be bits of your body. A mother will drink that cow's (processed) milk and one day give birth a beautiful baby. So, in a way, we are eternal :) Aisha Ikram wrote: we have came from We evolved. Ever heard of Darwin? Aisha Ikram wrote: you have ever studied biology, it was proved that a non-living cell can't create a living cell, only a living cell can produce another living cell. Bullshit. I have studied biology. Ever heard of Darwin? A "living" cell is considered as living because it exhibits certain properties. Scientists have managed to artificially create "life"; i.e. they got a bunch of chemicals to exhibit certain properties which collectively are called "life". Aisha Ikram wrote: very first living cell Ever heard of Darwin? (I'm getting a sense of deja vu here. Are u? :)) We are ultimately a bunch of chemicals. Chemical properties change and different arrangements can produce different results viz: both me and Saddam Husein can be termed as living but I sure as hell hope I'm different than him. Is reducing human beings to a bunch of chemicals too reductive? In a way it is; after all Leonardo da Vinci/Mozart/Eistein were much more than just a collection of elements. This is where random mutation and evolution come together; a "miracle" happened and the right combination of chemicals along with the right social conditions created these geniuses. If all the above seems simplistic to you or too cynical be my guest; I can understand why people need to believe that a god exists and that life has meaning; that's why people with huge egos used to build pyramids. Most people have an emotional need and don't let the facts get in the way of good story (Bible/Koran/etc). I'm one of those people who don't mind spoiling a good story; I prefer the truth. Brian Azzopardi bibamus, edamus, cras moriemur
[eat, drink, for tomorrow we die]
Brian Azzopardi wrote: Ever heard of Darwin? Brian Azzopardi wrote: Ever heard of Darwin? Brian Azzopardi wrote: Ever heard of Darwin? So you are a follower of Darwin? :cool: Seriously, it's very sad that humans think they are so almighty that there couldn't possibly be something greater than them that they can't understand. I find it quite surprising that dev's, who spend their entire lives thinking outside the box, are prepared to have this limitation in their minds, instead of exploring the possibilities.
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages A moment of silence please. A programmer's best friend has passed beyond that great exception in the sky.... - Mark Conger on "The coffee machine has died"
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Aisha Ikram wrote: you see science says, livings things are created from living things and life is not possible out of life-less entities No it doesn't. I would really like to know where that statement came from ! Elaine (evolved fluffy tigress) Would you like to meet my teddy bear ?
well i just heard :-). Ok what you think what is the purpose of human beings? why we are in this world? @ish@ check my latest article in .NET section What is Common Language Runtime(CLR)?
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Brian Azzopardi wrote: Ever heard of Darwin? Brian Azzopardi wrote: Ever heard of Darwin? Brian Azzopardi wrote: Ever heard of Darwin? So you are a follower of Darwin? :cool: Seriously, it's very sad that humans think they are so almighty that there couldn't possibly be something greater than them that they can't understand. I find it quite surprising that dev's, who spend their entire lives thinking outside the box, are prepared to have this limitation in their minds, instead of exploring the possibilities.
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages A moment of silence please. A programmer's best friend has passed beyond that great exception in the sky.... - Mark Conger on "The coffee machine has died"
Megan Forbes wrote: So you are a follower of Darwin? Yes. I've read Dawkins too. Megan Forbes wrote: Seriously, it's very sad that humans think they are so almighty that there couldn't possibly be something greater than them that they can't understand. I couldn't agree more! That is exactly what all religions try to be: priests/religions think that they can explain everything in this world and even the next and are so sure of themselves that they used to kill people for doubting them. Now surely that is the ultimate in arrogance? There is nothing greater than human beings and there is everything. Megan, why do you percieve the existence of God. You surely cant be certain he/she/it exists? What proof do you have? Not believing is not a sign of arrogance, it's just facing the facts. I on the other hand realize how fragile and frail human life is and know that the world out there is a strange and alien place full of surprises. Megan Forbes wrote: prepared to have this limitation in their minds, instead of exploring the possibilities Again, I couldn't agree more. Religion is full of dogma, constantly closing doors. Science and people of a curios nature always leave the door open to the unknown, waiting, indeed, hoping for the next new thing. When was the last time the pope was waiting for the next new thing? Religion is a very negative thing: it reiforces prejudice while constantly saying no the outside world. Brian Azzopardi PS I know that in your post you were criticing my position but I couldnt help using your own arguments against you. I hope you don't mind :) bibamus, edamus, cras moriemur
[eat, drink, for tomorrow we die]
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well i just heard :-). Ok what you think what is the purpose of human beings? why we are in this world? @ish@ check my latest article in .NET section What is Common Language Runtime(CLR)?
Aisha Ikram wrote: if you have ever studied biology, it was proved that a non-living cell can't create a living cell Aisha Ikram wrote: well i just heard wouldn't you be a journalist? ;P Aisha Ikram wrote: why we are in this world I'm not sure we have a kind of mission to do here. It's IMO once again vanity to think there's a reason to justify our existence
Ohé Partisans, Ouvriers et Paysans C'est l'alarme! Le Chant des Partisans
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Brian Azzopardi wrote: Ever heard of Darwin? Brian Azzopardi wrote: Ever heard of Darwin? Brian Azzopardi wrote: Ever heard of Darwin? So you are a follower of Darwin? :cool: Seriously, it's very sad that humans think they are so almighty that there couldn't possibly be something greater than them that they can't understand. I find it quite surprising that dev's, who spend their entire lives thinking outside the box, are prepared to have this limitation in their minds, instead of exploring the possibilities.
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages A moment of silence please. A programmer's best friend has passed beyond that great exception in the sky.... - Mark Conger on "The coffee machine has died"
Megan Forbes wrote: are prepared to have this limitation in their minds, instead of exploring the possibil there is nothing more limiting than religion. Lets take the 10 commandments the main basis for 3 of the worlds main religions - 8 of them contain 'shalt not' not 'shall'. Pretty negative don't you think? Relgions oppose change - why? Well quite sensibly because change is dangerous especially to early mankind. Religion was around before we had laws and a proper health service - and looking at the major religions and their preachings these are what we see in order to keep order among the people. As we have become more civilised (I still don't think we are there yet) we have replaced these with laws. Lets take eating pork - why is this not allowed in Judaism and Muslim and yet is allowed in Christianity. Think climate and tape worms - tape worms aren't as much a problem in the colder climes due to the colder weather and the technique of salting/curing. This is where religion imposed a rule (law) for the health of the population (and a goood thing too) but this law broke down when the northern heathens were converted since they new how to prepare pork so it was healthier. ...
Stupidity dies. The end of future offspring. Evolution wins. - A Darwin Awards Haiku
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Megan Forbes wrote: So you are a follower of Darwin? Yes. I've read Dawkins too. Megan Forbes wrote: Seriously, it's very sad that humans think they are so almighty that there couldn't possibly be something greater than them that they can't understand. I couldn't agree more! That is exactly what all religions try to be: priests/religions think that they can explain everything in this world and even the next and are so sure of themselves that they used to kill people for doubting them. Now surely that is the ultimate in arrogance? There is nothing greater than human beings and there is everything. Megan, why do you percieve the existence of God. You surely cant be certain he/she/it exists? What proof do you have? Not believing is not a sign of arrogance, it's just facing the facts. I on the other hand realize how fragile and frail human life is and know that the world out there is a strange and alien place full of surprises. Megan Forbes wrote: prepared to have this limitation in their minds, instead of exploring the possibilities Again, I couldn't agree more. Religion is full of dogma, constantly closing doors. Science and people of a curios nature always leave the door open to the unknown, waiting, indeed, hoping for the next new thing. When was the last time the pope was waiting for the next new thing? Religion is a very negative thing: it reiforces prejudice while constantly saying no the outside world. Brian Azzopardi PS I know that in your post you were criticing my position but I couldnt help using your own arguments against you. I hope you don't mind :) bibamus, edamus, cras moriemur
[eat, drink, for tomorrow we die]
Brian Azzopardi wrote: I know that in your post you were criticing my position but I couldnt help using your own arguments against you. I hope you don't mind Not at all - I love debate :) Brian Azzopardi wrote: why do you percieve the existence of God. You surely cant be certain he/she/it exists? What proof do you have? Having grown up in an area of extreme natural beauty, it has always been easy for me to believe in God, just by looking around me. It also seems to me that humans wouldn't have the desire for a greater being if it were unnatural, and we were purely developed from evolution. Proof. I have only one memory of tangible proof that would satisfy your question. In high school I was in boarding school. Every Tuesday a local church would have members come round and we could miss evening study hall if we wanted and attend their teaching instead. While I did believe in God, I have to admit that getting out of study hall was a big motivator for all of us. One evening they prayed over this younger (14 year old, still growing) boy, that his one leg which was about 2 inches shorter than the other would grow to become the same length. Seems perfectly reasonable - he was still growing, why shouldn't it catch up over the next 4 to 5 years while he grows to adulthood? The only thing was, by the end of the prayer they were both the same length! I wish I had kept my eyes open. Otherwise it seems that proof is all around us, in every beautiful thing we see. Equally we can see evil every day, and don't have to look too far to find it. One thing I always find surprising is that people are more than happy to believe in the evil supernatural, but question the good. Asking me to prove something that we have both agreed is beyond our comprehension is ludicrous. Do I believe? Yes. And I always will. :)
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages A moment of silence please. A programmer's best friend has passed beyond that great exception in the sky.... - Mark Conger on "The coffee machine has died"
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well i just heard :-). Ok what you think what is the purpose of human beings? why we are in this world? @ish@ check my latest article in .NET section What is Common Language Runtime(CLR)?
Aisha Ikram wrote: why we are in this world? Why would there be a reason? We just are. Don't you believe in :bob:? ----------------------- New and improved: kwakkelflap.com My first CP article: Pseudoregisters[^]
while (!:bob:.IsDrunk()) { :bob:.Drink( :beer: ); } -
Our origin is not about anything non-living creating something living. Its about non-living things becoming living things. Which parts of a cell are living? None, yet they make up a living cell. Life is not all about cells, its all about proteins. Given enough proteins, which are purely chemical (no-life), a self-replicating molecule, i.e., a virus, can literally 'spring' into existence, but this is still not 'real' life. It will not survive very long, even with self-replication, but given enough of them arising, with x many mutations per generation, some of them combine to form a living cell, which then 'creates' more living cells. Aisha Ikram wrote: ok then what you think we have came from? and how did it happen. you see science says, livings things are created from living things and life is not possible out of life-less entities. for example, i you have ever studied biology, it was proved that a non-living cell can't create a living cell, only a living cell can produce another living cell. I wonder, if this is true and has been proven, from where did this very first living cell come from on earth which created other living things.
ProffK wrote: Its about non-living things becoming living things. How is that possible ? Seriously, how can that be, when natural law is for things to atrophy, not to go from chaos to order ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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Megan Forbes wrote: So you are a follower of Darwin? Yes. I've read Dawkins too. Megan Forbes wrote: Seriously, it's very sad that humans think they are so almighty that there couldn't possibly be something greater than them that they can't understand. I couldn't agree more! That is exactly what all religions try to be: priests/religions think that they can explain everything in this world and even the next and are so sure of themselves that they used to kill people for doubting them. Now surely that is the ultimate in arrogance? There is nothing greater than human beings and there is everything. Megan, why do you percieve the existence of God. You surely cant be certain he/she/it exists? What proof do you have? Not believing is not a sign of arrogance, it's just facing the facts. I on the other hand realize how fragile and frail human life is and know that the world out there is a strange and alien place full of surprises. Megan Forbes wrote: prepared to have this limitation in their minds, instead of exploring the possibilities Again, I couldn't agree more. Religion is full of dogma, constantly closing doors. Science and people of a curios nature always leave the door open to the unknown, waiting, indeed, hoping for the next new thing. When was the last time the pope was waiting for the next new thing? Religion is a very negative thing: it reiforces prejudice while constantly saying no the outside world. Brian Azzopardi PS I know that in your post you were criticing my position but I couldnt help using your own arguments against you. I hope you don't mind :) bibamus, edamus, cras moriemur
[eat, drink, for tomorrow we die]
Religion without Science is blind, Science without Religion is lame- -Albert Einstein Without struggle, there is no progress
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Religion without Science is blind, Science without Religion is lame- -Albert Einstein Without struggle, there is no progress
pankajdaga wrote: Religion without Science is blind, Science without Religion is lame- -Albert Einstein I wonder if I have enough space left to add that to my sig :-D
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages A moment of silence please. A programmer's best friend has passed beyond that great exception in the sky.... - Mark Conger on "The coffee machine has died"
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Megan Forbes wrote: So you are a follower of Darwin? Yes. I've read Dawkins too. Megan Forbes wrote: Seriously, it's very sad that humans think they are so almighty that there couldn't possibly be something greater than them that they can't understand. I couldn't agree more! That is exactly what all religions try to be: priests/religions think that they can explain everything in this world and even the next and are so sure of themselves that they used to kill people for doubting them. Now surely that is the ultimate in arrogance? There is nothing greater than human beings and there is everything. Megan, why do you percieve the existence of God. You surely cant be certain he/she/it exists? What proof do you have? Not believing is not a sign of arrogance, it's just facing the facts. I on the other hand realize how fragile and frail human life is and know that the world out there is a strange and alien place full of surprises. Megan Forbes wrote: prepared to have this limitation in their minds, instead of exploring the possibilities Again, I couldn't agree more. Religion is full of dogma, constantly closing doors. Science and people of a curios nature always leave the door open to the unknown, waiting, indeed, hoping for the next new thing. When was the last time the pope was waiting for the next new thing? Religion is a very negative thing: it reiforces prejudice while constantly saying no the outside world. Brian Azzopardi PS I know that in your post you were criticing my position but I couldnt help using your own arguments against you. I hope you don't mind :) bibamus, edamus, cras moriemur
[eat, drink, for tomorrow we die]
Brian Azzopardi wrote: that they used to kill people for doubting them. It's a shame that so many judge God by those who falsely claim to follow Him. For the record, religion being used as an excuse to wage war is as old as religion itself. That does not make God wrong. Brian Azzopardi wrote: There is nothing greater than human beings and there is everything. What a sad world you inhabit if you believe this. Brian Azzopardi wrote: Religion is full of dogma, constantly closing doors. That is true. Relgion is generally also not about God. Brian Azzopardi wrote: Science and people of a curios nature always leave the door open to the unknown, waiting, indeed, hoping for the next new thing. It sounds to me like science is your religion. You're wrong though. Scientists are also people, and for every scientist that presents bad science to support his misreading of the Bible ( for example the young earth theory ), there are 100 that ignore the evidence before them regarding the creator. Have you seen the BBC series 'The Human Body' ? He talks often of amazing design, and of things that simply could not evolve ( for example the process of birth, had it at any stage not existed, would have rendered us extinct ), and then goes on to explain what he was taught at school, and what his mind has been closed to accept without question. Brian Azzopardi wrote: You surely cant be certain he/she/it exists? What proof do you have? Not believing is not a sign of arrogance, it's just facing the facts. I have never met you, therefore I presume you do not exist. Is this a logical or sensible course of action for me to take ? Or should I presume I simply haven't tried to meet you, nor have I had the chance. I am certain God exists because I have seen many healings such as that Megan mentioned, because I've been healed by God myself, and because the Bible lays down a specific promise to people willing to ask God to show that He exists. That experience was, is and will always be proof enough to me that God exists, and that's exactly the way He planned it. Brian Azzopardi wrote: When was the last time the pope was waiting for the next new thing? Doesn't he invent them himself, and claim inspiration from God for doing so ? Seriously, organised religion had nothing to do with God when Jesus came, why would it be different n
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pankajdaga wrote: Religion without Science is blind, Science without Religion is lame- -Albert Einstein I wonder if I have enough space left to add that to my sig :-D
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages A moment of silence please. A programmer's best friend has passed beyond that great exception in the sky.... - Mark Conger on "The coffee machine has died"
Please don't evict me Meg, I'm on my knees..... Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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ProffK wrote: Its about non-living things becoming living things. How is that possible ? Seriously, how can that be, when natural law is for things to atrophy, not to go from chaos to order ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
Thats Entropy, not atrohpy. Entropy is the state toward which this system of ours tends, but sub-systems may through some catalyst temporarily attain a state of higher energy. Fires occurs naturally don't they? Think of life as a kind of fire, having flared up a while ago, but destined to die again having contributed toward overall entropy.
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Megan Forbes wrote: are prepared to have this limitation in their minds, instead of exploring the possibil there is nothing more limiting than religion. Lets take the 10 commandments the main basis for 3 of the worlds main religions - 8 of them contain 'shalt not' not 'shall'. Pretty negative don't you think? Relgions oppose change - why? Well quite sensibly because change is dangerous especially to early mankind. Religion was around before we had laws and a proper health service - and looking at the major religions and their preachings these are what we see in order to keep order among the people. As we have become more civilised (I still don't think we are there yet) we have replaced these with laws. Lets take eating pork - why is this not allowed in Judaism and Muslim and yet is allowed in Christianity. Think climate and tape worms - tape worms aren't as much a problem in the colder climes due to the colder weather and the technique of salting/curing. This is where religion imposed a rule (law) for the health of the population (and a goood thing too) but this law broke down when the northern heathens were converted since they new how to prepare pork so it was healthier. ...
Stupidity dies. The end of future offspring. Evolution wins. - A Darwin Awards Haiku
Shaun Wilde wrote: Lets take the 10 commandments the main basis for 3 of the worlds main religions Really ? Which ones ? Judaism I'll give you, Christianity is built on Jesus explanation of the commandments - 'love the Lord your God with all your heart, and love your neighbour as yourself'. And Islam rejects Christ and the Bible in all but lip service. Shaun Wilde wrote: 8 of them contain 'shalt not' not 'shall'. Pretty negative don't you think? Let's review them - don't kill people, don't steal, don't build resentment for your friends by desiring the things they have, don't mistreat your parents, which of these things strikes you as having a negative impact on society ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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well i just heard :-). Ok what you think what is the purpose of human beings? why we are in this world? @ish@ check my latest article in .NET section What is Common Language Runtime(CLR)?
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Please don't evict me Meg, I'm on my knees..... Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
Christian Graus wrote: Please don't evict me Meg, I'm on my knees..... Lol - you will see that the great exception in the sky has left us, but you are still a lodger :)
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages Religion without Science is blind, Science without Religion is lame -Albert Einstein
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Brian Azzopardi wrote: I know that in your post you were criticing my position but I couldnt help using your own arguments against you. I hope you don't mind Not at all - I love debate :) Brian Azzopardi wrote: why do you percieve the existence of God. You surely cant be certain he/she/it exists? What proof do you have? Having grown up in an area of extreme natural beauty, it has always been easy for me to believe in God, just by looking around me. It also seems to me that humans wouldn't have the desire for a greater being if it were unnatural, and we were purely developed from evolution. Proof. I have only one memory of tangible proof that would satisfy your question. In high school I was in boarding school. Every Tuesday a local church would have members come round and we could miss evening study hall if we wanted and attend their teaching instead. While I did believe in God, I have to admit that getting out of study hall was a big motivator for all of us. One evening they prayed over this younger (14 year old, still growing) boy, that his one leg which was about 2 inches shorter than the other would grow to become the same length. Seems perfectly reasonable - he was still growing, why shouldn't it catch up over the next 4 to 5 years while he grows to adulthood? The only thing was, by the end of the prayer they were both the same length! I wish I had kept my eyes open. Otherwise it seems that proof is all around us, in every beautiful thing we see. Equally we can see evil every day, and don't have to look too far to find it. One thing I always find surprising is that people are more than happy to believe in the evil supernatural, but question the good. Asking me to prove something that we have both agreed is beyond our comprehension is ludicrous. Do I believe? Yes. And I always will. :)
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages A moment of silence please. A programmer's best friend has passed beyond that great exception in the sky.... - Mark Conger on "The coffee machine has died"
Megan Forbes wrote: Otherwise it seems that proof is all around us, in every beautiful thing we see. Equally we can see evil every day, and don't have to look too far to find it. One thing I always find surprising is that people are more than happy to believe in the evil supernatural, but question the good. Asking me to prove something that we have both agreed is beyond our comprehension is ludicrous. Do I believe? Yes. And I always will. I wish I could believe like you do. I would really like to think of my dead mother and father in heaven, waiting for me. Then I think of the five-year old African boy gradually going blind because a worm is eating through his eye, and all the children in Africa and other parts of the world, and how much they have to suffer. If there is a god, and he lets this happen, he can keep heaven to himself. There is simply no way to reconcile the notion of goodness with what "god" allows to happen in the world, unless you're living in your own mental version of heaven on earth. Go to Africa. Then tell us how beautiful the world is.
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Christian Graus wrote: Please don't evict me Meg, I'm on my knees..... Lol - you will see that the great exception in the sky has left us, but you are still a lodger :)
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages Religion without Science is blind, Science without Religion is lame -Albert Einstein
*grin* see, I know how to get my way. Just debase myself and beg furiously..... Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002