What we are and what is this universe?
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Aisha Ikram wrote: , i think i am too young to argu on this topic So you're not currently a dedicated follower of Islam ? Aisha Ikram wrote: my father says, don't give your comments on something about which you are unsure He sounds like a wise man. :-) Aisha Ikram wrote: Ok tell me what do you believe about the existence of Christ. we say he is alive and still with God and one day he will come back to this world .... and all. But you deny that He was the Son of God ? I believe He is alive, and that the reason He rose again was to make *the* way to restoration of the relationship between God and man, that He went back to His Father in order to send the Holy Spirit, who indwells those who would accept Him, and that God shows His power to His people with signs and wonders today. Aisha Ikram wrote: you see Christian, this is not about Islam or Christianity, but you see i believe in God (Allah) as He exists. Not to be unkind, but the Bible says even the devils believe in God. Belief is of no value unless it is followed up in action, in doing what God would have us to do. Aisha Ikram wrote: Ok tell me what you ppl say about MAGIC or BLACK MAGIC?? I think it's a bunch of hooey, but to be honest, I'm happy enough with the power of God in my life to not care enough to look into it. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
Sorry i was away on EID leaves, so now back to code project :) Christian Graus wrote: So you're not currently a dedicated follower of Islam ? Oh no, Well I am a true Muslim but again the same reason "my father says, don't give your comments on something about which you are unsure" Christian Graus wrote: He sounds like a wise man. Yes he is :) Christian Graus wrote: But you deny that He was the Son of God ? Yeh Christian Graus wrote: Not to be unkind, but the Bible says even the devils believe in God. :-D yes .....but ............. i am not a devil :( :(( Christian Graus wrote: Belief is of no value unless it is followed up in action, in doing what God would have us to do. I agree :) Christian Graus wrote: I'm happy enough with the power of God in my life to not care enough to look into it. Yes same here but you see, magic does exist and what it does nobody can see or believe and it's true that God's power is much much more than that (in fact i must say, it has no comparison), but i just wanted to say that these evil powers exist as well, which man don't see and don't believe either and similarly there are many other things that we can't see but they exist. So the point is it does NOT mean Only those things exist which are visible to human, there are numerous things we haven't found as yet. So why people say that we should prove the existence of God, but again.... i am not suppose to tell this to you as you already believe in God. :) @ish@ What is Common Language Runtime(CLR)?
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Sorry i was away on EID leaves, so now back to code project :) Christian Graus wrote: So you're not currently a dedicated follower of Islam ? Oh no, Well I am a true Muslim but again the same reason "my father says, don't give your comments on something about which you are unsure" Christian Graus wrote: He sounds like a wise man. Yes he is :) Christian Graus wrote: But you deny that He was the Son of God ? Yeh Christian Graus wrote: Not to be unkind, but the Bible says even the devils believe in God. :-D yes .....but ............. i am not a devil :( :(( Christian Graus wrote: Belief is of no value unless it is followed up in action, in doing what God would have us to do. I agree :) Christian Graus wrote: I'm happy enough with the power of God in my life to not care enough to look into it. Yes same here but you see, magic does exist and what it does nobody can see or believe and it's true that God's power is much much more than that (in fact i must say, it has no comparison), but i just wanted to say that these evil powers exist as well, which man don't see and don't believe either and similarly there are many other things that we can't see but they exist. So the point is it does NOT mean Only those things exist which are visible to human, there are numerous things we haven't found as yet. So why people say that we should prove the existence of God, but again.... i am not suppose to tell this to you as you already believe in God. :) @ish@ What is Common Language Runtime(CLR)?
Aisha Ikram wrote: Well I am a true Muslim but again the same reason "my father says, don't give your comments on something about which you are unsure" I'm confused - how can you be a 'true Muslim', but unsure as to what that means ? Aisha Ikram wrote: yes .....but ............. i am not a devil I apologise, that is not what I am saying. What the Bible is saying is that believing doesn't really mean anything. The quote is from James, and the context is that faith without works is dead, believing in Jesus is no great achievement, what matters is what you do about it. Aisha Ikram wrote: magic does exist I am yet to see evidence. I am aware of a number of 'tricks' and the reason they appear to work, but it is always based in science, not the 'black arts'. But either way, it does not matter to me, I'm a child of God. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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Aisha Ikram wrote: Well I am a true Muslim but again the same reason "my father says, don't give your comments on something about which you are unsure" I'm confused - how can you be a 'true Muslim', but unsure as to what that means ? Aisha Ikram wrote: yes .....but ............. i am not a devil I apologise, that is not what I am saying. What the Bible is saying is that believing doesn't really mean anything. The quote is from James, and the context is that faith without works is dead, believing in Jesus is no great achievement, what matters is what you do about it. Aisha Ikram wrote: magic does exist I am yet to see evidence. I am aware of a number of 'tricks' and the reason they appear to work, but it is always based in science, not the 'black arts'. But either way, it does not matter to me, I'm a child of God. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
Christian Graus wrote: I'm confused - how can you be a 'true Muslim', but unsure as to what that means ? well.... i think there have been a confusion... well i was unsure about the exact answers to some of your questions and NOT about my being a Muslim :) or what does it means. let me paste it again. Christian Graus wrote: As a follower of Islam, how often do you read the New Testament ? Do you believe that Jesus healed people ? That He rose from the dead ? That people are healed by Jesus today ? Actually, I'd love it if you answered this Well my reply was.... Yes we do believe that Jesus healed people and that he rose from the dead. About "today"....well he is alive, but we believe he is with God and about details i am not sure. But you see we say that it's the God who does all that, heals and rise from dead. Christian Graus wrote: The quote is from James James??? Christian Graus wrote: it is always based in science I don't think so, i believe science is one of the studies, but it doesn't cover the whole universe, there are other studies too. And black magic is another type of study which is evil, but it's never based on science or logic. I don't know but in India, many people know it. Christian Graus wrote: it does not matter to me, well it doesn't matter to me as well but you see thing is there are so many other things in this universe that human mind has not reached as yet and there are so many others which we can never ever reach .... @ish@ What is Common Language Runtime(CLR)?
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Christian Graus wrote: I'm confused - how can you be a 'true Muslim', but unsure as to what that means ? well.... i think there have been a confusion... well i was unsure about the exact answers to some of your questions and NOT about my being a Muslim :) or what does it means. let me paste it again. Christian Graus wrote: As a follower of Islam, how often do you read the New Testament ? Do you believe that Jesus healed people ? That He rose from the dead ? That people are healed by Jesus today ? Actually, I'd love it if you answered this Well my reply was.... Yes we do believe that Jesus healed people and that he rose from the dead. About "today"....well he is alive, but we believe he is with God and about details i am not sure. But you see we say that it's the God who does all that, heals and rise from dead. Christian Graus wrote: The quote is from James James??? Christian Graus wrote: it is always based in science I don't think so, i believe science is one of the studies, but it doesn't cover the whole universe, there are other studies too. And black magic is another type of study which is evil, but it's never based on science or logic. I don't know but in India, many people know it. Christian Graus wrote: it does not matter to me, well it doesn't matter to me as well but you see thing is there are so many other things in this universe that human mind has not reached as yet and there are so many others which we can never ever reach .... @ish@ What is Common Language Runtime(CLR)?
Aisha Ikram wrote: James??? This is kinda where I am confused. James is a book of the New Testament. How can your religion believe in Jesus but hide the accounts of His life from you ? Aisha Ikram wrote: believe science is one of the studies, but it doesn't cover the whole universe, there are other studies too. What I mean is that when a man, for example, makes himself appear dead and then come back to life, there is a scientific reason to be found in the 'magic' potion that he drinks. But it's not really important, as such things cannot affect me either way. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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Aisha Ikram wrote: James??? This is kinda where I am confused. James is a book of the New Testament. How can your religion believe in Jesus but hide the accounts of His life from you ? Aisha Ikram wrote: believe science is one of the studies, but it doesn't cover the whole universe, there are other studies too. What I mean is that when a man, for example, makes himself appear dead and then come back to life, there is a scientific reason to be found in the 'magic' potion that he drinks. But it's not really important, as such things cannot affect me either way. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
Christian Graus wrote: James is a book of the New Testament Well what is this testament thing ??? Christian Graus wrote: How can your religion believe in Jesus but hide the accounts of His life from you ? His life is not hidden at all... i mean since his birth till his going back to God. But after that what happened, we don't know. All we know is that he will come back one day and tell the world about the truth. @ish@ What is Common Language Runtime(CLR)?
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Christian Graus wrote: James is a book of the New Testament Well what is this testament thing ??? Christian Graus wrote: How can your religion believe in Jesus but hide the accounts of His life from you ? His life is not hidden at all... i mean since his birth till his going back to God. But after that what happened, we don't know. All we know is that he will come back one day and tell the world about the truth. @ish@ What is Common Language Runtime(CLR)?
Aisha Ikram wrote: Well what is this testament thing ??? The Bible is in two parts, the Old Testament, which is the story of the prophets who foretold Jesus coming, and the story of the nation Israel, and the New Testament, which is the life of Jesus, His death and resurrection and the story of the early church. It also contains letters written to the early church, such as that written by James. Aisha Ikram wrote: His life is not hidden at all... How is it revealed to you when you are not even made aware of the nature of the book which records His life ? Aisha Ikram wrote: All we know is that he will come back one day and tell the world about the truth. No, He did that. He is coming back to take up the throne of David and to rule over the world, along with those who followed Him. I'm really interested now. You obviously have been told nothing of Jesus from the Bible, so what is your source of information ? Does the Quran mention Him ? How long after Jesus' death was it written ? Why is it that you believe in Jesus but do not read the Bible ? Do you believe the Bible to be true ? If so, why do you not have any knowledge of it, and if not, how can you believe in Jesus ? Sorry for the flood of questions, this is really interesting to me. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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Aisha Ikram wrote: Well what is this testament thing ??? The Bible is in two parts, the Old Testament, which is the story of the prophets who foretold Jesus coming, and the story of the nation Israel, and the New Testament, which is the life of Jesus, His death and resurrection and the story of the early church. It also contains letters written to the early church, such as that written by James. Aisha Ikram wrote: His life is not hidden at all... How is it revealed to you when you are not even made aware of the nature of the book which records His life ? Aisha Ikram wrote: All we know is that he will come back one day and tell the world about the truth. No, He did that. He is coming back to take up the throne of David and to rule over the world, along with those who followed Him. I'm really interested now. You obviously have been told nothing of Jesus from the Bible, so what is your source of information ? Does the Quran mention Him ? How long after Jesus' death was it written ? Why is it that you believe in Jesus but do not read the Bible ? Do you believe the Bible to be true ? If so, why do you not have any knowledge of it, and if not, how can you believe in Jesus ? Sorry for the flood of questions, this is really interesting to me. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
Christian Graus wrote: How is it revealed to you when you are not even made aware of the nature of the book which records His life ? Well It's "Quran" which tells us all ... about all prophets and books including Christ and Bible. Plus the sayings of our Holy Prophet "Muhammad" (Peace be upon him) are a great source of information for us. Christian Graus wrote: I'm really interested now. :-) Christian Graus wrote: You obviously have been told nothing of Jesus from the Bible, so what is your source of information ? Does the Quran mention Him ? yes, Quran mentions about everything. Christian Graus wrote: How long after Jesus' death was it written ? "Jesus' death" !!! Well after 500 years Christian Graus wrote: Why is it that you believe in Jesus but do not read the Bible ? Do you believe the Bible to be true ? If so, why do you not have any knowledge of it, and if not, how can you believe in Jesus ? As we have Quran to read, which mentions everything, about all prophets and all books .... from Adam to Muhammad (PBUH). Do you read other books??? Bible is a book of God. Again the answer to all other questions is "Quran". Christian Graus wrote: Sorry for the flood of questions, this is really interesting to me. :) well it's ok. this is interesting for me as well and i really like talking with you. But the problem is "time"... ok well you never told me what you do and all. tell me a little about yourself :-). @ish@ What is Common Language Runtime(CLR)?
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Christian Graus wrote: How is it revealed to you when you are not even made aware of the nature of the book which records His life ? Well It's "Quran" which tells us all ... about all prophets and books including Christ and Bible. Plus the sayings of our Holy Prophet "Muhammad" (Peace be upon him) are a great source of information for us. Christian Graus wrote: I'm really interested now. :-) Christian Graus wrote: You obviously have been told nothing of Jesus from the Bible, so what is your source of information ? Does the Quran mention Him ? yes, Quran mentions about everything. Christian Graus wrote: How long after Jesus' death was it written ? "Jesus' death" !!! Well after 500 years Christian Graus wrote: Why is it that you believe in Jesus but do not read the Bible ? Do you believe the Bible to be true ? If so, why do you not have any knowledge of it, and if not, how can you believe in Jesus ? As we have Quran to read, which mentions everything, about all prophets and all books .... from Adam to Muhammad (PBUH). Do you read other books??? Bible is a book of God. Again the answer to all other questions is "Quran". Christian Graus wrote: Sorry for the flood of questions, this is really interesting to me. :) well it's ok. this is interesting for me as well and i really like talking with you. But the problem is "time"... ok well you never told me what you do and all. tell me a little about yourself :-). @ish@ What is Common Language Runtime(CLR)?
Aisha Ikram wrote: Well It's "Quran" which tells us all ... about all prophets and books including Christ and Bible. Plus the sayings of our Holy Prophet "Muhammad" (Peace be upon him) are a great source of information for us. Yes, but the question is, if you believe in Jesus, why do you believe contempary accounts are of no value ? Was the point of Jesus coming only realised 500 years later ? Aisha Ikram wrote: As we have Quran to read, which mentions everything, about all prophets and all books Does it mention Pentecost ? Speaking in tongues ? Healing ? Operation of voice gifts in the church of God ( tongues, interpretation and prophecy ) ? Does it mention the Revelation that Jesus gave John of history from that time until the last days ? The return of Jesus to rule on earth ? Aisha Ikram wrote: Do you read other books??? No, I am a Christian. Jesus came to fulfill the Law and Prophets. It's more appropriate to note that I read the Old Testament as well as the New. None of the things that existed when Jesus came, which He claimed as a foundation, are hidden from me. Aisha Ikram wrote: ok well you never told me what you do and all. tell me a little about yourself I'm a full time programmer, mostly in .NET nowadays, as well as a full time father of two children. I am 33, and I live in Australia. I also play guitar :-) How about you ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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Aisha Ikram wrote: Well It's "Quran" which tells us all ... about all prophets and books including Christ and Bible. Plus the sayings of our Holy Prophet "Muhammad" (Peace be upon him) are a great source of information for us. Yes, but the question is, if you believe in Jesus, why do you believe contempary accounts are of no value ? Was the point of Jesus coming only realised 500 years later ? Aisha Ikram wrote: As we have Quran to read, which mentions everything, about all prophets and all books Does it mention Pentecost ? Speaking in tongues ? Healing ? Operation of voice gifts in the church of God ( tongues, interpretation and prophecy ) ? Does it mention the Revelation that Jesus gave John of history from that time until the last days ? The return of Jesus to rule on earth ? Aisha Ikram wrote: Do you read other books??? No, I am a Christian. Jesus came to fulfill the Law and Prophets. It's more appropriate to note that I read the Old Testament as well as the New. None of the things that existed when Jesus came, which He claimed as a foundation, are hidden from me. Aisha Ikram wrote: ok well you never told me what you do and all. tell me a little about yourself I'm a full time programmer, mostly in .NET nowadays, as well as a full time father of two children. I am 33, and I live in Australia. I also play guitar :-) How about you ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
About your other questions i will reply you tomorrow as i am going home now :-). Christian Graus wrote: No, I am a Christian. Jesus came to fulfill the Law and Prophets. It's more appropriate to note that I read the Old Testament as well as the New. None of the things that existed when Jesus came, which He claimed as a foundation, are hidden from me. So you have a thorough study of your religion!! good :-) Christian Graus wrote: How about you ? Well I'm a full time programmer too, these days working on VC++ 6 (MFC) but learning and .NET and C# on my own, love writing and that's why try to write for code project. In this way i also learn so many things. Just like you i am a full time daughter of my parents :), age 23 (10 years younger than you ;)), live in Islamabad, Pakistan. Love music, painting, psycology and travelling but got very few chances to visit places outside pakistan. In dec 2000, i was interviewed in Dubai by Microsoft, and it was a very good experience of my life. Have so many future plans ...like studying ....working with people from all over the world with different experiences and thoughts :). And there is so much to tell but..... got to go home :). anyways you can have a look at my "not very good" website at http://aisha.hostmb.com and sign my guest book.:-O May i know your astro sign?? :suss: mine is Cancer :cool: @ish@ What is Common Language Runtime(CLR)?
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About your other questions i will reply you tomorrow as i am going home now :-). Christian Graus wrote: No, I am a Christian. Jesus came to fulfill the Law and Prophets. It's more appropriate to note that I read the Old Testament as well as the New. None of the things that existed when Jesus came, which He claimed as a foundation, are hidden from me. So you have a thorough study of your religion!! good :-) Christian Graus wrote: How about you ? Well I'm a full time programmer too, these days working on VC++ 6 (MFC) but learning and .NET and C# on my own, love writing and that's why try to write for code project. In this way i also learn so many things. Just like you i am a full time daughter of my parents :), age 23 (10 years younger than you ;)), live in Islamabad, Pakistan. Love music, painting, psycology and travelling but got very few chances to visit places outside pakistan. In dec 2000, i was interviewed in Dubai by Microsoft, and it was a very good experience of my life. Have so many future plans ...like studying ....working with people from all over the world with different experiences and thoughts :). And there is so much to tell but..... got to go home :). anyways you can have a look at my "not very good" website at http://aisha.hostmb.com and sign my guest book.:-O May i know your astro sign?? :suss: mine is Cancer :cool: @ish@ What is Common Language Runtime(CLR)?
Aisha Ikram wrote: About your other questions i will reply you tomorrow as i am going home now Fair enough.... Aisha Ikram wrote: So you have a thorough study of your religion!! good Yes, I do, but I think it's more important that I have *experienced* my religion. I dunno if I already asked this, but what does Islam do for you ? How does your God interact with you in your everyday life ? Aisha Ikram wrote: but learning and .NET and C# on my own, It's cool stuff. I am lucky enough that having taught myself at first, I am finally using ASP.NET and C# in my work hours. Aisha Ikram wrote: (10 years younger than you ), Thanks for the reminder. I did a resume last night for a 16 year old girl and I got most depressed when I saw when she was born. I remember 1986 quite clearly. Aisha Ikram wrote: May i know your astro sign?? I must admit that while I don't believe in that stuff at all, I am a pretty typical Aquarius. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002