Is it too hard to find a programming job in the US ?
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Cloud Cuckoo Land. There is absolutely no way that salary will be paid. In the UK, where I am, the starting salary you would be looking at would be the £25-£30 k per annum. And then you would have to work like buggery to advance. Translating to $ is about $38-$43 k. You may need to think of something else for that kind of money.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
12 years ago I started on £8000. And I was glad for the break too.
"It is a remarkable fact that despite the worldwide expenditure of perhaps US$50 billion since 1990, and the efforts of tens of thousands of scientists worldwide, no human climate signal has yet been detected that is distinct from natural variation." Bob Carter, Research Professor of Geology, James Cook University, Townsville
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Well, I can see you have lots of illusions which are going tto be broken when you get there. The West is not the land of milk and honey with streets paved with gold, its the land of hard work and sticking at it. You should be happy to start for 30K, even 25. Becuase once you have the experience you can start to earn more.
"It is a remarkable fact that despite the worldwide expenditure of perhaps US$50 billion since 1990, and the efforts of tens of thousands of scientists worldwide, no human climate signal has yet been detected that is distinct from natural variation." Bob Carter, Research Professor of Geology, James Cook University, Townsville
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Hi everyone. :) I'm moving to the United States with a B.Sc. in Electrical Engineering and some knowledge of C#, WPF and some other .Net technologies . . . Suppose that I can get all 3 VS 2010 MCPD certificates in a few months and I’m interested in a .Net programming job with a salary like 80k/year :cool: or more, what would be my career prospect? In what cities am I most likely able to find such a job? What extra certificates might help me find a better job? Are my expectations too high to be feasible? And if so, what are the practical starting points for me? I have relatively low previous professional experience in programming, only a couple of small projects for small companies . . ., but I’m counting on MCPD certificates that ensure one has an equivalent of more than 3 years of professional experience, since that’s a fixed requirement in almost all job offers I’ve seen . . . Any tips, advice, hints etc. are welcome :)
One other point. In the US it depends on where you locate as my $100K house in the mid-west would cost $500K in New Jersey. Jobs are there but not at the amount you are shooting for. Again job availability depends on location. My area is just starting to pickup.
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I thought you had a Peugot.:confused:
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
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No requirements are fixed, they are starting points. Each programming job is about the ability to accomplish a task and the ability to adapt to the environment and, *cough*, cash. Considering I have known M.S.C.S. individuals that can't get an application to compile I wouldn't consider banking on your education. Master the language, learn to slam out code, and humble yourself by getting in at the bottom for cheap. ... Can you program on an iPhone? :)
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
Master the language, learn to slam out code, and humble yourself by getting in at the bottom for cheap.
Bang on. I started on about 15K dollars 12 years ago. I make 10 times that today. Hard work, and not being arrogant. Just getting the product out. Thats what companies want.
"It is a remarkable fact that despite the worldwide expenditure of perhaps US$50 billion since 1990, and the efforts of tens of thousands of scientists worldwide, no human climate signal has yet been detected that is distinct from natural variation." Bob Carter, Research Professor of Geology, James Cook University, Townsville
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Cloud Cuckoo Land. There is absolutely no way that salary will be paid. In the UK, where I am, the starting salary you would be looking at would be the £25-£30 k per annum. And then you would have to work like buggery to advance. Translating to $ is about $38-$43 k. You may need to think of something else for that kind of money.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
Even then it depends where in the UK. Many places in the north want some MS certs for their partner points and a degree just for £12-18 K / $18-28 graduate positions - considering the long hours you'd be best off working in mcdonalds unless you really enjoy the work.
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One other point. In the US it depends on where you locate as my $100K house in the mid-west would cost $500K in New Jersey. Jobs are there but not at the amount you are shooting for. Again job availability depends on location. My area is just starting to pickup.
djj55 wrote:
One other point. In the US it depends on where you locate as my $100K house in the mid-west would cost $500K in New Jersey.
That is very important when you consider salary. I paid around $200K for my ~2800 square foot house on a 17000 square foot lot in the Pittsburgh area. I would expect the same house would go for $750K to $1000K in some parts of the country. So even if I made 125K there I would be making less money then I do here.
John
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I thought you had a Peugot.:confused:
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
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I thought you had a Peugot.:confused:
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
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Hi everyone. :) I'm moving to the United States with a B.Sc. in Electrical Engineering and some knowledge of C#, WPF and some other .Net technologies . . . Suppose that I can get all 3 VS 2010 MCPD certificates in a few months and I’m interested in a .Net programming job with a salary like 80k/year :cool: or more, what would be my career prospect? In what cities am I most likely able to find such a job? What extra certificates might help me find a better job? Are my expectations too high to be feasible? And if so, what are the practical starting points for me? I have relatively low previous professional experience in programming, only a couple of small projects for small companies . . ., but I’m counting on MCPD certificates that ensure one has an equivalent of more than 3 years of professional experience, since that’s a fixed requirement in almost all job offers I’ve seen . . . Any tips, advice, hints etc. are welcome :)
You could get certificates so easily! Will you print it yourself so soon? With low professional experience 80K is a big mouth! I do not challenge your skills, and have no idea if you can achieve it, but it is typical case. And depending on where you live, your cost of living differs a lot in US . Certificates play very less importance compared to logic and experience you carry with you.
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You could get certificates so easily! Will you print it yourself so soon? With low professional experience 80K is a big mouth! I do not challenge your skills, and have no idea if you can achieve it, but it is typical case. And depending on where you live, your cost of living differs a lot in US . Certificates play very less importance compared to logic and experience you carry with you.
RaviSant wrote:
Certificates play very less importance compared to logic and experience you carry with you.
Each time I have hired someone I have completely ignored certificates. They are too easy to cheat and even if they were not I would still want to see experience over passing a test. Can the person work both in a team and independently? Is a 250K line program too much for the person to handle? ...
John
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Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
Master the language, learn to slam out code, and humble yourself by getting in at the bottom for cheap.
Bang on. I started on about 15K dollars 12 years ago. I make 10 times that today. Hard work, and not being arrogant. Just getting the product out. Thats what companies want.
"It is a remarkable fact that despite the worldwide expenditure of perhaps US$50 billion since 1990, and the efforts of tens of thousands of scientists worldwide, no human climate signal has yet been detected that is distinct from natural variation." Bob Carter, Research Professor of Geology, James Cook University, Townsville
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Yeah contracting kernel work. Pays beter than applicaiton work. Usually around £50 an hour.
"It is a remarkable fact that despite the worldwide expenditure of perhaps US$50 billion since 1990, and the efforts of tens of thousands of scientists worldwide, no human climate signal has yet been detected that is distinct from natural variation." Bob Carter, Research Professor of Geology, James Cook University, Townsville
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Hi everyone. :) I'm moving to the United States with a B.Sc. in Electrical Engineering and some knowledge of C#, WPF and some other .Net technologies . . . Suppose that I can get all 3 VS 2010 MCPD certificates in a few months and I’m interested in a .Net programming job with a salary like 80k/year :cool: or more, what would be my career prospect? In what cities am I most likely able to find such a job? What extra certificates might help me find a better job? Are my expectations too high to be feasible? And if so, what are the practical starting points for me? I have relatively low previous professional experience in programming, only a couple of small projects for small companies . . ., but I’m counting on MCPD certificates that ensure one has an equivalent of more than 3 years of professional experience, since that’s a fixed requirement in almost all job offers I’ve seen . . . Any tips, advice, hints etc. are welcome :)
Saman Saeedi wrote:
I'm moving to the United States with a B.Sc. in Electrical Engineering and some knowledge of C#, WPF and some other .Net technologies . . .
No way. With a B.S. from a foreign university and no work experience? In the U.S. you're basically at the low end of entry level. Good luck getting a job for over 45k, even in NY or Chicago financial companies.
Saman Saeedi wrote:
I’m counting on MCPD certificates that ensure one has an equivalent of more than 3 years of professional experience, since that’s a fixed requirement in almost all job offers I’ve seen . . .
You can't buy experience with certificates, frankly, nobody even cares about them. I swear I saw resumes like yours 10 times a day at my old position, none of them enticing.
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Saman Saeedi wrote:
and some knowledge of C#, WPF and some other .Net technologies . . .
and then
Saman Saeedi wrote:
I’m interested in a .Net programming job with a salary like 80k/year or more
Even *with* the MCPD, you ain't getting a 80K job with "some knowledge" of .Net.
Saman Saeedi wrote:
what would be my career prospect?
I would say a job in the 40-50k range, unless your programming job heavily leverages your EE skills, and you're actually good at it.
Saman Saeedi wrote:
I have relatively low previous professional experience in programming
We wouldn't even consider you for an interview in our shop.
Saman Saeedi wrote:
but I’m counting on MCPD certificates
Waste of time. The MS certs are so easy to get, a caveman could do it. The only thing a company can leverage as a result is earning more points in the MS Partner program. I worked at a company that kept out-sourced Indian programmers on retainer simply because their certs earned them partner points - and for NO OTHER REASON. I'm not intending to sound harsh, but dude, you got little/no documented skills.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Saman Saeedi wrote: I have relatively low previous professional experience in programming We wouldn't even consider you for an interview in our shop.
How much of that is just that getting non-citizens approval to work on anything DoD related is a major PITA.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
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Henry Minute wrote:
When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
Started to hear this on a Car Insurance Ad lately, but I'm sure you said it first?
That's where I heard it. :-\
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
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Hi everyone. :) I'm moving to the United States with a B.Sc. in Electrical Engineering and some knowledge of C#, WPF and some other .Net technologies . . . Suppose that I can get all 3 VS 2010 MCPD certificates in a few months and I’m interested in a .Net programming job with a salary like 80k/year :cool: or more, what would be my career prospect? In what cities am I most likely able to find such a job? What extra certificates might help me find a better job? Are my expectations too high to be feasible? And if so, what are the practical starting points for me? I have relatively low previous professional experience in programming, only a couple of small projects for small companies . . ., but I’m counting on MCPD certificates that ensure one has an equivalent of more than 3 years of professional experience, since that’s a fixed requirement in almost all job offers I’ve seen . . . Any tips, advice, hints etc. are welcome :)
I don't reveal my current salary openly to just anybody, but I'll give you an idea of how my salary history has evolved. I started doing work study in college for $8/hour (worked on a website). Then I did QA during a couple summers; the first summer for $8/hour and the next for I think $12/hour. The next summer I worked for about $15/hour while I learned some stuff, then I got paid $20 or $25 an hour (I forget) helping a lawyer automate some of his processes. When I graduated from college, my first job paid about $50K/year (I worked on security software). I had one job after that with a large raise and with my new job I got a similarly large raise. Only my current job and my last job have been salaried as an employee... my previous jobs were mostly independent contracting (they weren't really, but my employees declared me that to save themselves money). However, I am still about $15K below my fair market value. It has taken me a little over 5 years of real work to get where I am now. You will make more money if you live in an expensive area, like San Francisco or New York City. But of course, they pay more there because you spend more there. Though, if you did something to save money, like live out of an RV (that way, you can avoid the high cost of housing), then maybe it would make a real difference.
Saman Saeedi wrote:
I’m interested in a .Net programming job with a salary like 80k/year
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!! Be prepared to get laughed out of the interview. I use salary.com to estimate what my salary should be, but like I said my actual salaries are always lower than that. By the way, I have worked primarily with .Net technologies (including C#, VB.Net, WPF, Windows Forms), so you can expect to be paid similarly to me. Though there are other factors, such as the industry you choose to work in.
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Hi everyone. :) I'm moving to the United States with a B.Sc. in Electrical Engineering and some knowledge of C#, WPF and some other .Net technologies . . . Suppose that I can get all 3 VS 2010 MCPD certificates in a few months and I’m interested in a .Net programming job with a salary like 80k/year :cool: or more, what would be my career prospect? In what cities am I most likely able to find such a job? What extra certificates might help me find a better job? Are my expectations too high to be feasible? And if so, what are the practical starting points for me? I have relatively low previous professional experience in programming, only a couple of small projects for small companies . . ., but I’m counting on MCPD certificates that ensure one has an equivalent of more than 3 years of professional experience, since that’s a fixed requirement in almost all job offers I’ve seen . . . Any tips, advice, hints etc. are welcome :)
While just about everyone on this thread is correct that it's extremely unlikely (unheard of?) to get that sort of salary for that sort of experience, I think it's worth noting that if you excel at the core components of your job and you're aggressive in solving problems for the organization outside of your "to-do" list and you stay on top of market trends and new tech, you can advance your salary pretty quickly. I've been fortunate that at the different shops I've worked in there's always been a few new technologies I haven't fooled with before that I quickly became proficient in, so it's one more thing to have on my resume, and it usually pays off when it's time to do something different. (I also benefit from being restless and having held 4 different positions in 6 years with significant increases on each hop).
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The certificates are meaningless to most employers. Head hunters may care, but employers want relevant experience. 80k is high for entry level, and without experience you will have to pay your dues as entry level...
"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them." Eric Hoffer "The failure mode of 'clever' is 'asshole'" John Scalzi
This was a real eye opener ... I always was under the impression that the much touted MCPD certificates mean a lot to most employers. Specially since the exams cover most of the materials (or more) a developer should know that someone with 2 or 3 years of experience may not know ... besides, for entry level job applicants that have little experience those certificates are the only thing that might help them stand out of the crowd ... As for $80k/year, i just threw a number to see the reactions and the path is clear now .... I should probably start with a 20k or 30k job and after a while i'll have enough experience to catch the employers eyes ... But i won't stop at 80k/year :) :cool: :D I here want to thank everyone that shared their experience. They helped me a lot. Saman.
