On English and programming.
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David1987 wrote:
If you don't know English, you can bag my groceries.
Nah, that's not true, you can also serve me burgers or stamp my ticket in the subway...
Beidh ceol, caint agus craic againn - Seán Bán Breathnach
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Don't tell my folks I'm a computer programmer - They think I'm a piano player in a cat house...
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Da mihi sis crustum Etruscum cum omnibus in eo!
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Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects - Will Rogers, 1924 -
Johnny J. wrote:
David1987 wrote:
If you don't know English, you can bag my groceries.
Nah, that's not true, you can also serve me burgers or stamp my ticket in the subway...
Don't forget phone support.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
No no - for phone support it's not a requirement that you don't know English - it's a requirement that you don't know computers (or mobile phones or broadband or whatever) :doh:
Beidh ceol, caint agus craic againn - Seán Bán Breathnach
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Don't tell my folks I'm a computer programmer - They think I'm a piano player in a cat house...
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Da mihi sis crustum Etruscum cum omnibus in eo!
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Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects - Will Rogers, 1924 -
No no - for phone support it's not a requirement that you don't know English - it's a requirement that you don't know computers (or mobile phones or broadband or whatever) :doh:
Beidh ceol, caint agus craic againn - Seán Bán Breathnach
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Don't tell my folks I'm a computer programmer - They think I'm a piano player in a cat house...
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Da mihi sis crustum Etruscum cum omnibus in eo!
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Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects - Will Rogers, 1924 -
There was an article linked to in the CP news that said that you don't have to know English to be a good programmer. I'm Dutch, and I know from experience that that can not be true. Sure, you can program without knowing English (English keyword? you don't have to know what they mean anyway, you just have to know what they do), but you can not learn to program without knowing English. Nearly all literature is in English. The rest is usually badly translated - from English. Discussion forums are generally in English. Usenet is in English - except for the few localized NG's (which aren't used anyway). Wikipedia is in English - they claim not to be, but the best article is almost always the English one (except for very national topics). And if that wasn't enough, if you're getting your Master's degree, the classes are in English. Also, every job description I've ever seen (for jobs in the Netherlands), good English communication skills are required. If you don't know English, you can bag my groceries.
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Which is why English will become the first choice language for the world. (Cos I'm blatted if I can be asked to learn a forine langwidge). :)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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David1987 wrote:
If you don't know English, you can bag my groceries.
My question becomes, is there a problem with a 'trade language'? English seems to be the de-facto trade language... the universal constant. It certainly may not be the best choice, but I've read that in some cases, even Chinese or Indian groups will speak to their countrymen in English due to dialect/regional language differences. Perhaps in most cases that is isolation- I wouldn't expect an Iowa farmer to speak French any more than I would a French farmer to speak Iowa'n. (Okay that wasn't funny, just smile anyway.) I'm biased because I happened to have English as a first language, but I'd like to think if all else was equal but Spanish was the trade language, I'd learn it. Last note- I'll never get if the 'jokes' about American mono-languageism (which actually seems to be a trait of all primary English speaking countries...) is a joke or a serious jibe. Why bother learning another language and which one would YOU learn? It's unrealistic to pick up a language for a vacation... although if I planned to spend some time there I'd pick up the local language as best I could.
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Which is why English will become the first choice language for the world. (Cos I'm blatted if I can be asked to learn a forine langwidge). :)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
I think I read somewhere that there are more English speakers in China than there is England. :~
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There was an article linked to in the CP news that said that you don't have to know English to be a good programmer. I'm Dutch, and I know from experience that that can not be true. Sure, you can program without knowing English (English keyword? you don't have to know what they mean anyway, you just have to know what they do), but you can not learn to program without knowing English. Nearly all literature is in English. The rest is usually badly translated - from English. Discussion forums are generally in English. Usenet is in English - except for the few localized NG's (which aren't used anyway). Wikipedia is in English - they claim not to be, but the best article is almost always the English one (except for very national topics). And if that wasn't enough, if you're getting your Master's degree, the classes are in English. Also, every job description I've ever seen (for jobs in the Netherlands), good English communication skills are required. If you don't know English, you can bag my groceries.
David1987 wrote:
you don't have to know English to be a good programmer
Depends on what "know English" means. Most programmers in non-english speaking countries do not necessarily have good spoken and written English skills, such as in Japan, China, etc. Since programming languages are closely related to English plus that the programmers are educated, they do know some English.
TOMZ_KV
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We don't! Can you believe that a reasonably developed European country still has people sitting in little cages stamping train tickets manually? And the busdrivers also stamp manually - it's ludicrous... :thumbsdown:
Beidh ceol, caint agus craic againn - Seán Bán Breathnach
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Don't tell my folks I'm a computer programmer - They think I'm a piano player in a cat house...
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Da mihi sis crustum Etruscum cum omnibus in eo!
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Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects - Will Rogers, 1924modified on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 11:28 AM
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It is american is it not?
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
Bergholt Stuttley Johnson wrote:
It is american is it not?
As an American, I have to say - no. I haven't figured out what it is, since the words seem to be English(US), but the linguistic constructs appear to be a totally new invention ...
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Which is why English will become the first choice language for the world. (Cos I'm blatted if I can be asked to learn a forine langwidge). :)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
digital man wrote:
(Cos I'm blatted if I can be asked to learn a forine langwidge).
Thus says the man with a Latin quip in his autosig ...
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Don't worry, another 10 years and everybody would be speaking Chinese (Mandarin /Cantonese bleh) :rolleyes:
I are n00b.
SinghUlarity... wrote:
Don't worry, another 10 years and everybody would be speaking Chinese (Mandarin /Cantonese bleh)
真倒霉 (Jen dao mei!) Quote from Mal Reynolds in the Firefly episode "Bushwhacked"
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I agree. :thumbsup:
David1987 wrote:
If you don't know English, you can bag my groceries.
However, I don't agree with this statement...maybe you were trying to be funny.
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I always heard that if you speak three languages, you're trilingual. If you speak two languages, you're bilingual. And if you speak only one language, you're American.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11
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There was an article linked to in the CP news that said that you don't have to know English to be a good programmer. I'm Dutch, and I know from experience that that can not be true. Sure, you can program without knowing English (English keyword? you don't have to know what they mean anyway, you just have to know what they do), but you can not learn to program without knowing English. Nearly all literature is in English. The rest is usually badly translated - from English. Discussion forums are generally in English. Usenet is in English - except for the few localized NG's (which aren't used anyway). Wikipedia is in English - they claim not to be, but the best article is almost always the English one (except for very national topics). And if that wasn't enough, if you're getting your Master's degree, the classes are in English. Also, every job description I've ever seen (for jobs in the Netherlands), good English communication skills are required. If you don't know English, you can bag my groceries.
All this means is that English speakers have had to do most of the heavy-lifting with regard to writing and teaching in this arena. Worse, non-Angloglots have allowed it to happen this way. This leaves only two choices -- or both: (1) Learn English well, and/or (2) Write a great software development book in Dutch.
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There was an article linked to in the CP news that said that you don't have to know English to be a good programmer. I'm Dutch, and I know from experience that that can not be true. Sure, you can program without knowing English (English keyword? you don't have to know what they mean anyway, you just have to know what they do), but you can not learn to program without knowing English. Nearly all literature is in English. The rest is usually badly translated - from English. Discussion forums are generally in English. Usenet is in English - except for the few localized NG's (which aren't used anyway). Wikipedia is in English - they claim not to be, but the best article is almost always the English one (except for very national topics). And if that wasn't enough, if you're getting your Master's degree, the classes are in English. Also, every job description I've ever seen (for jobs in the Netherlands), good English communication skills are required. If you don't know English, you can bag my groceries.
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There was an article linked to in the CP news that said that you don't have to know English to be a good programmer. I'm Dutch, and I know from experience that that can not be true. Sure, you can program without knowing English (English keyword? you don't have to know what they mean anyway, you just have to know what they do), but you can not learn to program without knowing English. Nearly all literature is in English. The rest is usually badly translated - from English. Discussion forums are generally in English. Usenet is in English - except for the few localized NG's (which aren't used anyway). Wikipedia is in English - they claim not to be, but the best article is almost always the English one (except for very national topics). And if that wasn't enough, if you're getting your Master's degree, the classes are in English. Also, every job description I've ever seen (for jobs in the Netherlands), good English communication skills are required. If you don't know English, you can bag my groceries.
A couple of centuries ago Latin was the language of choice for science, now it has become English. I'm quite happy with that, Latin seems so much harder to learn... Here in Belgium we have to know (at least) 3 languages: Dutch, English and French. So I think you're lucky in Holland ;-)
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A couple of centuries ago Latin was the language of choice for science, now it has become English. I'm quite happy with that, Latin seems so much harder to learn... Here in Belgium we have to know (at least) 3 languages: Dutch, English and French. So I think you're lucky in Holland ;-)
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Actually, I had to learn English, German, French and Latin :( But after the second year I chose ancient Greek instead of Latin. Back in the old days you could drop German and/or French, but now you can't.
I had to learn German too, I choose it as my 3rd language (and then English as the 4th). But I was lucky with the Latin and the Greek ;-) I must say that I don't use German anymore, so it's a but rusty now. Tschüss, Gaston
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No no - for phone support it's not a requirement that you don't know English - it's a requirement that you don't know computers (or mobile phones or broadband or whatever) :doh:
Beidh ceol, caint agus craic againn - Seán Bán Breathnach
-----
Don't tell my folks I'm a computer programmer - They think I'm a piano player in a cat house...
-----
Da mihi sis crustum Etruscum cum omnibus in eo!
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Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects - Will Rogers, 1924surely you mean for phone support it IS a requirement that you do NOT know English Then it doesn't matter what else you know or don't know, or even if you know some unknown unknowns.