You gotta love the IT guys [modified]
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Probably DoD wide. Admin accounts being used only for admin actions is one of the 'fun' things we're gifted with on secure systems via dss/the nispom/etc. On the other hand only the admin has access to that account; devs need not apply, just call his desk number when something needs done. On the gripping hand, if you write you app so it can use an xcopy install and run out of a user folder instead of needing MSI and program files you're home free for testing purposes. :cool:
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
Yeah, but you enter directly to hell if you need to write a Windows service.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Yeah, but you enter directly to hell if you need to write a Windows service.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997I can imagine. Never did that directly, but I used COM to proof of concept a performance speedup in an Excel VBA app; ultimately it was a moot point since we ended up rewriting the entire app in C#. PS did you know that with the same algorithm (excluding the refactoring to replace a ~1000 goto infested function from hell with about 20 sane sized ones) that COM + C# can run about 1000 times faster than VBA, and that sucking the data out of the spreadsheet and stuffing it into COM using VBA will take longer than the actual calculation in C#?
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
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They just hate us software guys (at least the ones that work where I work)...it's in their blood to hate us at all costs. In my world I can't work without them and they wouldn't have a job without me. Why am I and the rest of the dev teams the only one (it seems) that can see the relationship and its benefits? I have to beg and grovel every time I need to do anything on a user's PC that is not mine. Usually it has something to do with Admin rights and why I need temporary elevated privileges. I work with these guys every f'n day and have been dealing with them for years and they still look at me like I'm from outer space. I am convinced that most of them are actually retarded but I keep giving them the benefit of the doubt. Can't we all just get along? ;)
modified on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:02 PM
I see you already got 4 fives. Good for you. But I don't think you and you voters have it entirely right. Sometimes you could get that behaviour because of a lack of people skills. Piss them off and they will turn against you. I am a developer too but I know a few of my compadres being so smug that even I wouldn't help them. There is a tendency on each side to believe that they are the elite. Plus let's not forget that even the developers have their retards. You are right though we should all get along, along with a long metal pipe to crush the... ;P , kidding. See what I did there with "along". :-D
giuchici
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fat_boy wrote:
Especially since I am a windows kernel developer and thus rank above everyone in the IT game!
Maybe I should be a windows kernel developer when I grow up.
I havent grown up yet and I managed it. :)
"If climate has not "tipped" in over 4 billion years it's not going to tip now due to mankind." Richard S. Lindzen, Atmospheric Physicist, Former IPCC Lead Author "It does not matter who you are, or how smart you are, or what title you have, or how many of you there are, and certainly not how many papers your side has published, if your prediction is wrong then your hypothesis is wrong. Period." Professor Richard Feynman
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"wag your tail!" See, he obeyed... ;)
"If climate has not "tipped" in over 4 billion years it's not going to tip now due to mankind." Richard S. Lindzen, Atmospheric Physicist, Former IPCC Lead Author "It does not matter who you are, or how smart you are, or what title you have, or how many of you there are, and certainly not how many papers your side has published, if your prediction is wrong then your hypothesis is wrong. Period." Professor Richard Feynman
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I see you already got 4 fives. Good for you. But I don't think you and you voters have it entirely right. Sometimes you could get that behaviour because of a lack of people skills. Piss them off and they will turn against you. I am a developer too but I know a few of my compadres being so smug that even I wouldn't help them. There is a tendency on each side to believe that they are the elite. Plus let's not forget that even the developers have their retards. You are right though we should all get along, along with a long metal pipe to crush the... ;P , kidding. See what I did there with "along". :-D
giuchici
giuchici wrote:
I see you already got 4 fives. Good for you.
Thanks. :thumbsup:
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Slacker007 wrote:
I am convinced that most of them are actually retarded
If it happens that they read the Lounge... then you are in trouble for the next "begging action"... :laugh: Anyway, feel your pain...
[www.tamelectromecanica.com] Robots, CNC and PLC machines for grinding and polishing.
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I see you already got 4 fives. Good for you. But I don't think you and you voters have it entirely right. Sometimes you could get that behaviour because of a lack of people skills. Piss them off and they will turn against you. I am a developer too but I know a few of my compadres being so smug that even I wouldn't help them. There is a tendency on each side to believe that they are the elite. Plus let's not forget that even the developers have their retards. You are right though we should all get along, along with a long metal pipe to crush the... ;P , kidding. See what I did there with "along". :-D
giuchici
What most people don't realize, is when things go to Hell in a hand basket, whose willing to take the blame and pitch in to help fix things. If you know 90% of most job is answering the stupid question of how did this happen and how can we stop it from happening again. Rather than just focusing on are we done yet, party time!!!
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I have full complete admin rights to my dev box. Have had it for years with no probs. I don't need to walk in their shoes to understand what they do for a living. I work with the same stupid users they do.
Except, my guess is, you probably don't work with auditors much. ;) As a former "IT guy", now turned codesmith, my experience was that most of what you did that caused others to hate you was not by choice - the auditors made you do it. Getting admin permission to anything is a perfect example of something auditors require IT guys to lock down hard. So, although some IT guys probably are egotistical, self-rightous boneheads, give them a break anyway. It might not be their fault. :laugh:
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Except, my guess is, you probably don't work with auditors much. ;) As a former "IT guy", now turned codesmith, my experience was that most of what you did that caused others to hate you was not by choice - the auditors made you do it. Getting admin permission to anything is a perfect example of something auditors require IT guys to lock down hard. So, although some IT guys probably are egotistical, self-rightous boneheads, give them a break anyway. It might not be their fault. :laugh:
Michael A. Cochran wrote:
Except, my guess is, you probably don't work with auditors much.
I work with auditors all the time on our contracts. What I have found is that most of the auditors I work with are down to earth and very realistic in their thinking: i.e. they know we need admin rights from time to time. I perform duties on 5 separate contracts right now and they are all audited. Everything we do with "admin" rights is logged and accounted for and is on a "temporary" basis (usually the amount of time it takes to install software) and is removed after the "need" is over...except those of us with full-time admin rights on our "own" dev machines. I don't despise all of the IT guys I have to deal with...just most of them. ;)
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They just hate us software guys (at least the ones that work where I work)...it's in their blood to hate us at all costs. In my world I can't work without them and they wouldn't have a job without me. Why am I and the rest of the dev teams the only one (it seems) that can see the relationship and its benefits? I have to beg and grovel every time I need to do anything on a user's PC that is not mine. Usually it has something to do with Admin rights and why I need temporary elevated privileges. I work with these guys every f'n day and have been dealing with them for years and they still look at me like I'm from outer space. I am convinced that most of them are actually retarded but I keep giving them the benefit of the doubt. Can't we all just get along? ;)
modified on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:02 PM
I don’t normally read the forums, because they quickly digress into religious diatribes or just plain nonsense. However this title on the CP email caught my attention and I have to respond. I believe I have a unique perspective, because I worked in IT for about 10 years, doing everything from help desk to VP of IT for a bank. Frustrations with the job, lead me to return to school and get a software engineering degree and change careers. So here is my 2 cents. My frustrations were inherent with the position itself. For example, if you do your job well and everything is running smoothly, no one knows you exist. This part I could live with, I prefer to be behind the scenes. However on the flip side, if something goes wrong it is always your fault. A switch or server goes down, and it is “the IT guys” fault. The biggest complaint is centered on security, and was brought up here, so I will address that. Everyone thinks that the IT guys are being security nazis, that they love you lock down computers, and force long complicated passwords. What many don’t understand is that the IT guys have to fill out questionnaires and/or go through audits from potential clients who are making sure you are following best practices. When working at the bank we also were audited by the FDIC and state agencies who were making sure we secure. Then depending on your organization you have to follow other legislation such as the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. You may be thinking, we are not a bank, or hospital, we don’t hold sensitive information, but if your company is anything but the smallest, you probably due. Your company has clients that perform their due diligence on you to make sure their assets are secure. So as an IT guy you either piss off potential clients, and/or regulatory agencies, or piss off your coworkers because you are being a security Nazis. If you do things securely, your coworkers think you suck, if you do things insecurely, you have the potential of ending up on the news. I do have to admit that there are many idiots in the IT field, I ran into many of them. I am sure many of you have valid complaints. To make matter worse, large organizations put procedures, paperwork and processes in place border on ridiculous. However there are many hardworking, smart IT people who study, train, and certify to do their jobs well, and are only doing what best practices and outside agencies dictate they do. Now that I am on the other side of the fence I have a bit more compassion and sympathy.
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I don’t normally read the forums, because they quickly digress into religious diatribes or just plain nonsense. However this title on the CP email caught my attention and I have to respond. I believe I have a unique perspective, because I worked in IT for about 10 years, doing everything from help desk to VP of IT for a bank. Frustrations with the job, lead me to return to school and get a software engineering degree and change careers. So here is my 2 cents. My frustrations were inherent with the position itself. For example, if you do your job well and everything is running smoothly, no one knows you exist. This part I could live with, I prefer to be behind the scenes. However on the flip side, if something goes wrong it is always your fault. A switch or server goes down, and it is “the IT guys” fault. The biggest complaint is centered on security, and was brought up here, so I will address that. Everyone thinks that the IT guys are being security nazis, that they love you lock down computers, and force long complicated passwords. What many don’t understand is that the IT guys have to fill out questionnaires and/or go through audits from potential clients who are making sure you are following best practices. When working at the bank we also were audited by the FDIC and state agencies who were making sure we secure. Then depending on your organization you have to follow other legislation such as the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. You may be thinking, we are not a bank, or hospital, we don’t hold sensitive information, but if your company is anything but the smallest, you probably due. Your company has clients that perform their due diligence on you to make sure their assets are secure. So as an IT guy you either piss off potential clients, and/or regulatory agencies, or piss off your coworkers because you are being a security Nazis. If you do things securely, your coworkers think you suck, if you do things insecurely, you have the potential of ending up on the news. I do have to admit that there are many idiots in the IT field, I ran into many of them. I am sure many of you have valid complaints. To make matter worse, large organizations put procedures, paperwork and processes in place border on ridiculous. However there are many hardworking, smart IT people who study, train, and certify to do their jobs well, and are only doing what best practices and outside agencies dictate they do. Now that I am on the other side of the fence I have a bit more compassion and sympathy.
You make a lot of valid points and I appreciate your candor. However, I am a stubborn bastard and I rarely sway from my beliefs. Does that make me an asshole or a retard...probably. In the end, what do I know? I'm just a dumb-ass programmer. [edit] Are you telling me that my post caused you to come out of hiding after over 4 years? Wow, that's amazing. :) Cheers.
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They just hate us software guys (at least the ones that work where I work)...it's in their blood to hate us at all costs. In my world I can't work without them and they wouldn't have a job without me. Why am I and the rest of the dev teams the only one (it seems) that can see the relationship and its benefits? I have to beg and grovel every time I need to do anything on a user's PC that is not mine. Usually it has something to do with Admin rights and why I need temporary elevated privileges. I work with these guys every f'n day and have been dealing with them for years and they still look at me like I'm from outer space. I am convinced that most of them are actually retarded but I keep giving them the benefit of the doubt. Can't we all just get along? ;)
modified on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:02 PM
Here the IT folk insisted that we couldn't use PEAP to authenticate to a wireless access point to test a new software package. They insisted that we had to use their preferred vendor's solution in spite of the fact that it was not yet available for the handheld platform we were using. It took several half-day meetings to convince them that PEAP would be at least as secure as their preferred vendor's solution. The preferred vendor's solution? LEAP. This was well after ASLEAP was available for download.
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They just hate us software guys (at least the ones that work where I work)...it's in their blood to hate us at all costs. In my world I can't work without them and they wouldn't have a job without me. Why am I and the rest of the dev teams the only one (it seems) that can see the relationship and its benefits? I have to beg and grovel every time I need to do anything on a user's PC that is not mine. Usually it has something to do with Admin rights and why I need temporary elevated privileges. I work with these guys every f'n day and have been dealing with them for years and they still look at me like I'm from outer space. I am convinced that most of them are actually retarded but I keep giving them the benefit of the doubt. Can't we all just get along? ;)
modified on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:02 PM
So I contacted FP to change my devbox A record. I used to contact Verizon, but they were bought out by FP. 2 hours and several IT guys later (of which a small percentage new what an A record was. How do you even qualify for IT tech support not knowing what an A record is?), I get an email reply with an 800 number... for NS where I bought and registered my domain name. I pointed out, several times, that the domain is parked on their name servers, but they stated that I need to contact NS - kinda like asking Telephono de Mexico to change my (Vermont) phone number. So I moved my devbox domain nameservers to another provider (GoD), parked the domain on their servers, changed my IP and had the dev site up in 5 minutes. While on the line with FP, a sales rep mentioned that I could upgrade my service at no charge. "Nice, but you're not messing with my IP addresses, right?" "Not at all...". I'm such a dumb-ass. My site is down, can't VPN in, credit card machines taking their time to use the backup dialup, ... when will I learn. They did call my business to fix the problem. Only they contacted the wrong location. The manager at the wrong location said, "Yeah, someone from FP called and asked if the internet was working". The manager said "yes". And yeah, I gave FP my mobile phone, but they opted instead to use the billing number. Still down.