Humorous thought re Sun vs. Microsoft

[Joe Woodbury]

Ah, you beat me to it. But I'll joing in anyway. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[CodeGuy]

Python, in fact, does have a "sandbox" security mode built into its standard library. I don't know about Perl tho. Brandon

[Chris Losinger]

Joe Woodbury wrote: Plus, you're also suggesting something that the courts have universally rejected, that simply having a monopoly entitles a competitor to bundle their products with the monopoly holding company. i'm certainly not suggesting that. that particular idea has never even crossed my mind. Joe Woodbury wrote: Not true. Even Jackson's [very biased] "findings of fact" found that IE 4 was as good as, or superior to, Netscape. Moreover, there was NO finding that Navigator's market share collapse was due to Microsoft's OEM agreements despite the many claims to the contrary. so when he agrees with you, you're OK with what he says. but when he doesn't, he's "biased" and you get to use the "ironic" quotes around legal terms? -c

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There's one easy way to prove the effectiveness of 'letting the market decide' when it comes to environmental protection. It's spelt 'S-U-V'. --Holgate, from Plastic

Smaller Animals Software

[Chris Losinger]

Terry Denham wrote: MS was found to be a monopoly by a corrupt judge so you have to suspect his opinion. MS is a monopoly, independent of whether or not Judge Jackson found it guilty of abusing that monopoly. it's not illegal to be a monopoly. it's only illegal to abuse the power that comes with it. Terry Denham wrote: so this became a tax of sort and there you go - abuse of monopoly. -c

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There's one easy way to prove the effectiveness of 'letting the market decide' when it comes to environmental protection. It's spelt 'S-U-V'. --Holgate, from Plastic

Smaller Animals Software

[Daniel Turini]

Alvaro Mendez wrote: Because Java rocks (the language and cross-platform concept behind it, not the class library). If it didn't, Microsoft wouldn't have jumped on it right from the start. Ok, jumping over the Java rocks part, what I meant is: why a judge would decide to force MS to put Java and not alternate language? Because Java rocks? Which law in the US says this? I see dumb people

[Terry Denham]

Chris Losinger wrote: and there you go - abuse of monopoly. Ok, agreed. But your whole argument about using its monopoly power to kill off Netscape is flawed and you didn't answer my question. How many copies of Netscape browser did you buy? Put your money where your mouth is.

[Chris Losinger]

Terry Denham wrote: But your whole argument about using its monopoly power to kill off Netscape is flawed and you didn't answer my question. How many copies of Netscape browser did you buy? Put your money where your mouth is. (i did answer it, but then i deleted it.. :) ) i bought exactly one copy of netscape. -c

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There's one easy way to prove the effectiveness of 'letting the market decide' when it comes to environmental protection. It's spelt 'S-U-V'. --Holgate, from Plastic

Smaller Animals Software

[Terry Denham]

Chris Losinger wrote: i bought exactly one copy of netscape. Ok, so you're one person that has a right to complain ( you are a legitimate customer) in addition to just your basic right to complain (you're 1st amendment). When I bought my copy of NS4 I bought the "pro" release (don't remember its name) so that I would get free upgrades for a year but then NS came out with a new major version number and I would have to buy another copy/upgrade and that my "pro" version didn't entitle me to this upgrade. That was when I didn't buy another copy of NS and went to IE and never looked back.

[Megan Forbes]

Navin wrote: product may be hazardous to your healt Like CP causing late nights? :cool: :bob: :jig:

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I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages Damned nice for remote servers where using Enterprise Manager is like wadding through treacle while covered in velcro, upside down -Paul Watson on SQL Server Query Analyser

[Alvaro Mendez]

:-O Um, the "Java Rocks" law, yeah, that's the one. It became law back when the Sun was invented, yeah that's it... :-D Well, I completely misunderstood the whole thing and looked at it more as a question of why would people prefer Java over something else. Oh well, it's Friday... :) Regards, Alvaro

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Well done is better than well said. -- Benjamin Franklin (I actually prefer medium-well.)

[Alvaro Mendez]

:-O:) Sure, feel free. It's just me trying to keep the amusement level up on this Friday afternoon. Regards, Alvaro PS, Java rocks! :-D

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Well done is better than well said. -- Benjamin Franklin (I actually prefer medium-well.)

[Joe Woodbury]

Chris Losinger wrote: Joe Woodbury wrote: Not true. Even Jackson's [very biased] "findings of fact" found that IE 4 was as good as, or superior to, Netscape. Moreover, there was NO finding that Navigator's market share collapse was due to Microsoft's OEM agreements despite the many claims to the contrary. so when he agrees with you, you're OK with what he says. but when he doesn't, he's "biased" and you get to use the "ironic" quotes around legal terms? (My use of quotes around "findings of fact" was to emphasise a legal term, which is a proper use of quotes. For reference, no quotes herein are intended to imply irony, but rather to emphasise or quote.) The D.C. Circuit court of appeals stated: "We vacate the final judgment on remedies, because the trial judge engaged in impermissible ex parte contacts by holding secret interviews with members of the media and made numerous offensive comments about Microsoft officials in public statements outside of the courtroom, giving rise to an appearance of partiality. Although we find no evidence of actual bias, we hold that the actions of the trial judge seriously tainted the proceedings before the District Court and called into question the integrity of the judicial process." I believe the court didn't find "actual bias" because courts don't like to do that for it harms the reputation of the judiciary. Moreover, had they found for actual bias in the decision, they would have been obligated to throw the whole thing out. They would have also been required to fully censure Jackson, something else the courts are loathe to do. That Judge Jackson displayed a contempt for Microsoft and bias against the company is obvious to anyone with two brain cells. From my reading of the findings of fact, this is evidenced by Jackson repeatedly taking Microsoft's opponent's view of events, sometimes word for word. At best, this created several findings which were misleading, especially if you didn't understand how technological development and the software marketplace worked at the time. At worse, several findings were just plain wrong. The question, then, was whether those erroneous findings affected the findings as a whole. And the appelate court answer was essentially "No, so we'll leave them alone." While I think they were basiclly right in that regard, I think those findings contribute to, and reflect, a bias against Microsoft. (And actually, the worse findings were those that "could have" done something or "may do" something wit

[Lost User]

NS3 was the time when Netscape was better. Then they started to concentrate more on the lawsuit and whining :-D My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers

[Brit]

But what you're forgetting Chris is that this judgement was reached by a biased and corrupt judge so his opinion is to be suspect too Yes, because only a corrupt and biased judge could find Microsoft guilty of anything. Uh right. Thats like saying Sun can have Motif, or Linux cant ship Mozilla or Apple can't ship whatever the hell they ship with these days. Or that Apple can't bundle iMovie or only allow the iPod to work with Apple (oh, they got away with that one). That's simply not true. You have to understand that being a monopoly changes everything. Example: If I went to a particular gas station and that gas station made me buy new tires whenever I filled up with gas, that's not a problem -- as long as I have a choice of other gas stations. I would immediately think "I'm not going to do that! I'm going somewhere else!" But now imagine that the gas station company owns every gas station within 500 miles. Now that's a monopoly and it would clearly be wrong for them to force drivers to buy tires every time they bought gas. That's the difference between Microsoft and Sun, Linux, and Apple. Microsoft has something like 95% of the market. Oh sure, you can say "you can use another OS" but it's not as easy as it sounds. The majority of user software is written for (and only for) Windows. That's done because Windows has an enormous marketshare. (Hence it is a self-reinforcing cycle.) Your assertion that Microsoft bunding IE is like Linux with Mozilla is completely false. Like I said at the beginning being a monopoly changes everything. ------------------------------------------ "Isn't it funny how people say they'll never grow up to be their parents, then one day they look in the mirror and they're moving aircraft carriers into the Gulf region?" - The Onion

[Christian Graus]

I hope they do. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002