No .NET programmers, please.

[R Giskard Reventlov]

Very narrow and incorrect view of the world: still, no need to worry, with an attitude and narrow outlook like that he'll be gone in a few months.

"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me

[Rajesh R Subramanian]

I think that he may be a typical simp, who thinks he's great - in another blog post, he tells about how he expects the people to spend "long hours" in his little office, because apparently they're all supposed to love what they do. :rolleyes: I posted a comment down there asking if boost users are incompetent too, because I can at some level compare what boost, stl, etc., does with what .NET does.

"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.

[Lost User]

Good Post! 5!

[Lost User]

That's something I always wondered about. Why do bosses always expect everybody to be euphoric about whatever they want them to do? It usually ia hard work and they have to wave with some money to get somebody to do it day by day. If it were so much fun, they would have a ticket booth in front of their offices and make you pay for admission. In this article, this guy keeps talking about startups. Startups begin from scratch and have a lot of work to do if they are to succeed. Wasting time on writing the boilerplate code lessens their chances. If the boss does not understand this, I would not really be enthusiastic to work in his treadmill.

"I just exchanged opinions with my boss. I went in with mine and came out with his." - me, 2011 ---
I am endeavoring, Madam, to construct a mnemonic memory circuit using stone knives and bearskins - Mr. Spock 1935 and me 2011

[Lost User]

Yes, when answering a C++ question recently, I actually had forgotten something. I must find something to do in C++, just so that I don't get too stale. :)

"I just exchanged opinions with my boss. I went in with mine and came out with his." - me, 2011 ---
I am endeavoring, Madam, to construct a mnemonic memory circuit using stone knives and bearskins - Mr. Spock 1935 and me 2011

[Rajesh R Subramanian]

CDP1802 wrote:

It usually ia hard work and they have to wave with some money to get somebody to do it day by day.

I agree with you. More even than the money, it is a combination of many different things - money, good work (job satisfaction), AND dignity (if I want to surf lolcats, I WILL). I can occasionally work for longer hours to save the company's arse and/or because the problem that I'm working on is so interesting and challenging. But if you expect me to work a 50 hour week all the time, I've a pearly white, hairy, sweaty, stinky ass that I'll flash at you and the move on to a better place.

CDP1802 wrote:

In this article, this guy keeps talking about startups. Startups begin from scratch and have a lot of work to do if they are to succeed. Wasting time on writing the boilerplate code lessens their chances.

Well said. There may also be another side to it - may be they're working on something that needs to be truly cross-platform, or something that .NET can't help you with (say, I'm writing code that should run on some device that runs a stripped down version of UNIX). However, like you said, if there's a chance for them to leave out the boiler-plate stuff to a well written library/framework, and they still don't do it because they don't like .NET (or whatever framework does it for them), then I'd want to stay really far away from them. The thought of having to work with someone who does not understand such basic stuff sends a chill down my spine ( had to do this shit in the past :omg: ).

"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.

[Rajesh R Subramanian]

Cruel, but true.

"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.

[Gary R Wheeler]

I've interviewed with people like that before. Fortunately I realized I didn't want to work for a moron like that before they embarassed themselves by making an offer I'd laugh at.

Software Zen: delete this;

[realJSOP]

The guy is a tool.

".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997

[JimmyRopes]

Nishant Sivakumar wrote:

Well he assumes people who use .NET only use .NET

There are a lot of people like that, but not all. I think he assumes that if you use .NET you don't have experience in a broader environment that is not as feature rich out of the box. Of course being feature rich out of the box is what enables rapid application development using a .NET language.

Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes

[giuchici]

Do you know what annoys me? Is that this guy gets so much attention for an article with such an elitist view. We should know better than that. This kind of articles always sparked heated debate and brought whoever wrote them a lot of attention. Let him hire whomever he wants and disappear into oblivion with his software written entirely from scratch and so portable that probably runs on abacuses as well (big, promising market). Cheers.

giuchici

[Oakman]

He sounds exactly like the C# boys desperately claiming that their idiom is better than another. Or the C kiddies responding to C++. Or the Eunuchs crowd reacting to Windows. Or the Assembly programmers regarding higher level languages with great distaste. The truth is that the it's not the tool but how (and when) you use it that makes the difference.

Where there's sacrifice, there's someone collecting the sacrificial offerings. Where there's service, there is someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master. ~ Ayn Rand

[Fabio Franco]

Wow, a lot of nonsense in there.... I put in my 2¢ in there: "However, if you need to make a 1.7 oz burger, you simply can’t" This sentence alone is enough to prove you have no idea what you're talking about when arguing about .net. Yes, .net related tools (Visual Studio specially) has lots of tools to automate stuff, but these tools are not the framework itself and they generate code automatically that you could write yourself. The so called "wizards" are a bad thing because many people grow dependent on them and don't really know how stuff work and end up limiting themselves and developing bad habits based on wrong premises. But they can be a good thing for productivity, but only if you already know what they are doing. I don't like them myself, because I don't like to loose control. Having said that, the .net framework is more powerful than most frameworks/languages/VMs. Specially if we are talking about windows desktop applications. You CAN DO more than most frameworks/languages. Not only it's not limited to on kind of application, it takes the power on them to the next level. .Net framework allows you to: 1 - Develop Desktop Apps 2 - Web Apps 3 - Embedded Circuits Apps 4 - Games (XNA Studio) 5 - User Mode Windows Drivers 6 - Cloud Apps All of this are pretty much native capabilities of the framework. And the list goes on... What other technology allows that (and very well)? .Net also allows you to work in relatively low levels for those who know how computers work (not like you said) and the people that don't understand it can put that as their own fault, it's their limitation, it's not the fault of the framework. I think before posting nonsense on the web, you should educate yourself about what you're talking about. I'd never want to work for a company that takes such assumptions as truth and miss the opportunities to work with great people. Let's see how your company lasts, I wouldn't invest on it. As I wouldn't in any company that dismisses any other technology in such ways.

[wizardzz]

The kicker is the company makes f***ing expense reports, nothing exciting at all! People can do what they do in Excel/Access! I'm going to apply in sarcasm to try to get an interview.

"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!" — Hunter S. Thompson

[wizardzz]

It's expense reporting, not rocket science. Meaning, there no benefit that C++ provides him over any other language, aside from stroking his intellectual ego since all his CS courses were in C++.

"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!" — Hunter S. Thompson

[Stefan_Lang]

Indeed. I hate it when I'm looking for advice on a C++ system function and even filtering on C++ 19/20 hits are .NET instead! Sometimes it's 20/20 :mad:

[wizardzz]

My biggest problem is not his view on C#, but his view as a manager. First off, his whole post is based on a blanket statement or belief, trying to simplify something based on a pattern he thinks exists (C# = bad coders for start ups). Because of this logic I would love to see what other stereotypical beliefs he has. Seriously, he reminds me of a CEO that wouldn't offer me a job because he thought my being able to type with one hand effected my ability to produce code efficiently. To quote from a previous blog entry: "We work long, hard hours doing what we love, and if you’re the kind of person who wants to clock out at 5:00 or spend half the day surfing LOLCats, this isn’t the place for you." "a zest for adventure – everyone on staff is a world traveler, and have what one of our engineers referred to as a “willingness to get into trouble” "constantly looking for a next great project, working on side projects of their own," Something about the first sentence conflicts with the rest. An 80 hour work week is not very conducive to an adventurous lifestyle full of personal side projects. Maybe the author wants people that were adventurous or do side projects, just to give it all up to code expense reports. But my coders will beat up your coders, any day of the week. For example, Mich is barely 5 foot tall, but is a competitive fencer. Witold is a 6’3″ former professional hockey player. Nate practices knife fighting for fun. And they’re pretty decent programmers, too. Send John, myself, and a few others. Nate will learn not to bring a knife to a gunfight.

"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!" — Hunter S. Thompson

[djdanlib 0]

Someone must have misinterpreted the developers' requests for a better tool.

[Rick Shaub]

I'm sure he meant MSIL, which is a great productvity booster...

[TRK3]

It might be that startup's choose open source software and tools because of economic constraints. If you have no money and no revenue stream and you are working for yourself out of your home office, then it seems to make economic sense to avoid paying for tools and licenses and do the extra work yourself. Once you've got a product built on that and a revenue stream and can actually afford to hire someone, you are already committed to a platform. Doesn't have anything to do with what's technically the right thing to do.