More Money or Less Money? C++ vs C#
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It's good to have you back, John. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
I'm kinda like the professional gun slinger that small western towns hired to get rid of the riff-raff, and while the job is being done, everybody kinda looks the other way. :) ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
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Colin Davies wrote: You might argue. "But smart C# will be able to do what C++ coders do." well thats Not True ! Name one programming task that you can do in C++ that you can't do in C#
Technically speaking the dictionary would define Visual Basic users as programmers.
But here again, a very generalized, liberal definition is being employed and it's wrong
- just plain wrong - Tom Archer 5/12/02Compile an app that doesn't need anything other than a commandline? ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
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Compile an app that doesn't need anything other than a commandline? ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
what do you mean? you can make a console app that takes in a commandline in C#
Technically speaking the dictionary would define Visual Basic users as programmers.
But here again, a very generalized, liberal definition is being employed and it's wrong
- just plain wrong - Tom Archer 5/12/02 -
In the last thread I posted about C++/MFC and C#, I gathered that so many are really migrating to the C#, even from VB. OK, Here is what every body shoulkd think of as a biz minded coder: (at least I do!) -More C# programmers :( -More C# Applications :( -More Client Awareness (coz as all probably agreed that C# is easier!) :( X| -More Client Intereference/ Mind changings -Maybe more clients that will learn C# on their own and THEN we programmers/instructors will lose! :( you know that teaching C++ is more prfitable than teaching C# probably! :confused: -Less coding time :) -Less coding effort, brain test, creativity! :eek: -Less MONEY! :(:(:(:( ... more that I don't remember even! How much can you charge as a price for a C++/MFC project and how much on a C# version? Now who wants to make money and who wants to make MORE money?
Maybe you're just not willing/able to learn something new? -More C# programmers, More C# Applications - who cares? -More Client Awareness - huh? -More Client Intereference/ Mind changings - More? Impossible... Problems with mind-changhing clients are rooted in contract and design problems, not the progging language. -Maybe more clients that will learn C#... Someone has to teach them, they have to hire someone, etc. -Less coding time - :jig: -Less coding effort, brain test, creativity! - huh? If you wanna coding effort or brain test, join the Obfuscated C contest. And creativity? You can be creative in VB (or so I'm told :cool: ). -Less MONEY! - :looking for lart: You can charge only as much as the client is willing to pay (unless you're a SUN or IBM consultant, of course..). If you can produce it cheaper using .NET - where's your problem? C# lessens development time and production cost. The rest is a question of the market.
If I could find a souvenir / just to prove the world was here [sighist]
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I've recently been involved in the conversion of a large activeX/MFC/ATL control to a C#/.NET control. I have not found C# to be all that much "easier". Complex applications are complex regardless of the language used. If you want make a career of using C++ to design forms based windows applications, go for it. But my advice would be to either stick with C++ and find work doing more back end/system related stuff, or if you are going to stay in the windows desktop development world, keep up with the tools available to do that kind of work. "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
Stan Shannon wrote: But my advice would be to either stick with C++ and find work doing more back end/system related stuff, The problem is that is where Java is creeping in. I've started to hate it. It just makes me shudder ...so........slow......must.....use......32....processors...to.....make....coffee. It seems more and more that businesses don't want to use C++ on the server side as good c++ guys are hard to come by compared to other groups of programmer.
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Colin Davies wrote: You might argue. "But smart C# will be able to do what C++ coders do." well thats Not True ! Name one programming task that you can do in C++ that you can't do in C#
Technically speaking the dictionary would define Visual Basic users as programmers.
But here again, a very generalized, liberal definition is being employed and it's wrong
- just plain wrong - Tom Archer 5/12/02Write a system kernel; game requiring highly optimized code... Lowlevel programming, e.g. inline assembly... :) (had to eat the troll bait.) evilpen dot net::msn messenger:negacao@hotmail.com
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Write a system kernel; game requiring highly optimized code... Lowlevel programming, e.g. inline assembly... :) (had to eat the troll bait.) evilpen dot net::msn messenger:negacao@hotmail.com
Kristopher wrote: inline assembly I said C++ - everything becomes assembly in the end Kristopher wrote: had to eat the troll bait it wasn't intended to be :)
Technically speaking the dictionary would define Visual Basic users as programmers.
But here again, a very generalized, liberal definition is being employed and it's wrong
- just plain wrong - Tom Archer 5/12/02 -
Stan Shannon wrote: But my advice would be to either stick with C++ and find work doing more back end/system related stuff, The problem is that is where Java is creeping in. I've started to hate it. It just makes me shudder ...so........slow......must.....use......32....processors...to.....make....coffee. It seems more and more that businesses don't want to use C++ on the server side as good c++ guys are hard to come by compared to other groups of programmer.
Maybe. But competition is a good thing. Either Java will evolve or it will die. If C++ is too complicated to be productive with, and if you have to have the IQ of Albert Einstien to work with it, than it will die. That is as things should be. Not to ignore the role of marketing hype in all of this, but even so, it is ultimately about the real productive power of a given technology in the market place. Frankly, I feel that in another five years or so Java will be about as significant as Smalltalk. "Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art." Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
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A program that detects my Athlon 650Mhz as an Athlon 407Mhz? I'm pretty sure I can come up with VB code that does it. BTW, AMD never did an Athlon 407Mhz. I see dumb people
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what do you mean? you can make a console app that takes in a commandline in C#
Technically speaking the dictionary would define Visual Basic users as programmers.
But here again, a very generalized, liberal definition is being employed and it's wrong
- just plain wrong - Tom Archer 5/12/02I was just guessing. I don't see the need for C# or .NET (or java/Javascript or ActiveXcrement for that matter), so anything I say about it will be insulting, derisive, and outright inflamatory. ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
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Commercial quality games such as Quake, Unreal etc. Michael Fat bottomed girls You make the rockin' world go round -- Queen
I'm not sure about the exact timing but Carmack used to write all his code in c not c++ ( I think it was around Quake 2 that he started using c++ ) and then he started using c++ later on. I do know from M. Abrashes graphics programming books that a lot of the graphics code in quake was written in assembler because c compilers weren't fast enough. Also most games these days are going to be using directx anyway which you shouldn't have too much trouble accessing from CSharp if you talk directly to the com classes. Anthony www.TonysOpenSource.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
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I was just guessing. I don't see the need for C# or .NET (or java/Javascript or ActiveXcrement for that matter), so anything I say about it will be insulting, derisive, and outright inflamatory. ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: so anything I say about it will be insulting, derisive, and outright inflamatory. John - such restraint - I'm proud :)
Technically speaking the dictionary would define Visual Basic users as programmers.
But here again, a very generalized, liberal definition is being employed and it's wrong
- just plain wrong - Tom Archer 5/12/02 -
ProIT wrote: How much can you charge as a price for a C++/MFC project and how much on a C# version? Who cares about the language a project is implemented? Programmers. No one else cares. If you are selling software to programmers, you may see them paying more on a templated C++ solution because it comes with sources. For everyone else, whatever does the job is good. Do you think that if Chris coded Codeproject in pure ISAPI or ATL Server templates someone would pay more for advertising on CP? It's the same with your software. When I'm using a software, if it solves my BIG problem, has a highly usable interface, and its performance do not interfere with my work, I would pay lots of money. On the opposite side, I recently saw an ASM version of Notepad which sucked. It's a crippled version of Notepad, and even didn't have all the features Notepad has. The "advantage"? It's a 7 Kb .EXE program. Now, I would pay much more money for this editor[^], even if it's made in C# and uses almost 1000 times the memory. (FYI, sharpDevelop is free) I see dumb people
Daniel Turini wrote: Who cares about the language a project is implemented? Programmers. No one else cares. But they do care if they have to download and/or install a 20MB runtime package just to run a small utility.
