Why is it that we don't have a FairTax in the USA? Would it work in other countries too?
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Really bad idea. It adversely affects the less well off, who would then be paying more tax as a percentage of income. What is needed is a universal rate system. 10% of all income is taxed, 10% on Purchases, 10% on Corporation tax etc. A complex and unweildy tax system is used to control and monitor people, it is a form of economic slavery. Left Wing governments love it because it allows for more intrusion into the lives of its citizens. Simpler Tax systems are easier to enforce, and, generally, raise more money for the state, and allow more money to be kept for the workers. (This is because there is less red tape and bureaucracy involved in calculation, and the same with collection.) Also, whilst I am on the subject... Incremental rate hikes for higher earners make no sense... Taking ever larger %'s from the high earners may seem like a good idea for the socialists/trotskyites, but it acts as a disenfranchisement. "The harder I work, the less I am rewarded" is not going to encourage people to work. And the higher earners are the ones we need working. The lower earners are given the tax breaks, and yet are less productive for the country. We need the higher earners to be encouraged, for then they create markets and jobs which is better for all.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
If that is so, I live in a very oppressive country. Our tax system here is... arcane.
"I just exchanged opinions with my boss. I went in with mine and came out with his." - me, 2011 ---
I am endeavoring, Madam, to construct a mnemonic memory circuit using stone knives and bearskins - Mr. Spock 1935 and me 2011 -
But the higher earners are, generally, better educated and more business savvy. These are the entrepreneurs who create wealth. Joe Blow who works in a shop or a factory does his job, and get's his pay, but doesn't create the market, yet, perversely, gets the tax breaks.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
Joe Blow who works in a shop or a factory does his job,
Creating wealth is usually taken to mean adding to national income. Joe Blow produces something that is sold, i.e. adds to national income, so he creates wealth.
Regards David R --------------------------------------------------------------- "Every program eventually becomes rococo, and then rubble." - Alan Perlis The only valid measurement of code quality: WTFs/minute.
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Not sure how many of you in the USA are familiar with the FairTax movement. Since this is tax day here in the US I thought I would post and bring it to your attention. Especially since many of you are ISV and programmers working for yourselves. The FairTax would mean the elimination of all forms of income tax, including payroll taxes and medicare and Social Security tax. It would be replaced by a consumption tax on new items that are purchased. The only problem I have with this is that food and medicine would be taxed. A prebate would exist for those who earn less than X amount of dollars so they are not burdened with the tax. In my mind it seems to make sense since I can control what I purchase. I don't have to have that expensive new 52 inch tv. I do expect manufacturers to get around the tax by offering discounts on the merchandise, so that the items will still be affordable. That means prices in general will go down unless raw materials go up...ie oil goes up. How many of you know about the FairTax and if you are not in the USA would you think it would work in your own countries.?
Whehe, a nice scam :cool: Moving taxes from the income part to the consumption part would mean a big increase in taxes for those who spend most of their income on basic stuff like food, clothing, housing, and it would be a huge tax-break for the rich.
mindserve wrote:
if you are not in the USA would you think it would work in your own countries.?
It wouldn't work, has been tried in the past with this[^] result.
I are Troll :suss:
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Not sure how many of you in the USA are familiar with the FairTax movement. Since this is tax day here in the US I thought I would post and bring it to your attention. Especially since many of you are ISV and programmers working for yourselves. The FairTax would mean the elimination of all forms of income tax, including payroll taxes and medicare and Social Security tax. It would be replaced by a consumption tax on new items that are purchased. The only problem I have with this is that food and medicine would be taxed. A prebate would exist for those who earn less than X amount of dollars so they are not burdened with the tax. In my mind it seems to make sense since I can control what I purchase. I don't have to have that expensive new 52 inch tv. I do expect manufacturers to get around the tax by offering discounts on the merchandise, so that the items will still be affordable. That means prices in general will go down unless raw materials go up...ie oil goes up. How many of you know about the FairTax and if you are not in the USA would you think it would work in your own countries.?
I'd think almost the opposite would be more beneficial all round... If every entity (individual or business) was taxed at a flat rate for all forms of income, no tax free amounts, no change in rate, if money goes into your account, you pay the government x% end of story. Sure, it's not quite as simple as it sounds on the surface, but it would be vastly cheaper to administer, fairer all round (everyone pays the same percentage of everything they earn - however it is earned) and easier to police too. No more 'I won it at the bookies, govenor' - tough - you pay tax on it. You only earn the bare minimum wage - well sorry, but you pay tax on it. Your company makes a loss? Ok you don't pay tax - but you don't get no tax back either. You buy something? Tax Free to you - but income for the store - so they pay tax on that income. You provide a service for money - you pay tax on the money that is paid to you. I'd love to hear from someone as to why this wouldn't work!
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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I'd think almost the opposite would be more beneficial all round... If every entity (individual or business) was taxed at a flat rate for all forms of income, no tax free amounts, no change in rate, if money goes into your account, you pay the government x% end of story. Sure, it's not quite as simple as it sounds on the surface, but it would be vastly cheaper to administer, fairer all round (everyone pays the same percentage of everything they earn - however it is earned) and easier to police too. No more 'I won it at the bookies, govenor' - tough - you pay tax on it. You only earn the bare minimum wage - well sorry, but you pay tax on it. Your company makes a loss? Ok you don't pay tax - but you don't get no tax back either. You buy something? Tax Free to you - but income for the store - so they pay tax on that income. You provide a service for money - you pay tax on the money that is paid to you. I'd love to hear from someone as to why this wouldn't work!
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
That is the best and most effective solution. It's simple to administer and easy to understand. I earn 10$ and I need to give away 10% of that.I dont get it, why dont people and nations simplify stuff ? Good thinking _Maxx_.I often think about tellng this idea to people and then retract because people just love to be crazy.
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That is the best and most effective solution. It's simple to administer and easy to understand. I earn 10$ and I need to give away 10% of that.I dont get it, why dont people and nations simplify stuff ? Good thinking _Maxx_.I often think about tellng this idea to people and then retract because people just love to be crazy.
Our government already is far ahead. They try to tax every form of income and have sales taxes. In case of gasoline they even have several taxes with the sales tax on top of the others. That's brilliant. Paying taxes on the other taxes.
"I just exchanged opinions with my boss. I went in with mine and came out with his." - me, 2011 ---
I am endeavoring, Madam, to construct a mnemonic memory circuit using stone knives and bearskins - Mr. Spock 1935 and me 2011 -
Really bad idea. It adversely affects the less well off, who would then be paying more tax as a percentage of income. What is needed is a universal rate system. 10% of all income is taxed, 10% on Purchases, 10% on Corporation tax etc. A complex and unweildy tax system is used to control and monitor people, it is a form of economic slavery. Left Wing governments love it because it allows for more intrusion into the lives of its citizens. Simpler Tax systems are easier to enforce, and, generally, raise more money for the state, and allow more money to be kept for the workers. (This is because there is less red tape and bureaucracy involved in calculation, and the same with collection.) Also, whilst I am on the subject... Incremental rate hikes for higher earners make no sense... Taking ever larger %'s from the high earners may seem like a good idea for the socialists/trotskyites, but it acts as a disenfranchisement. "The harder I work, the less I am rewarded" is not going to encourage people to work. And the higher earners are the ones we need working. The lower earners are given the tax breaks, and yet are less productive for the country. We need the higher earners to be encouraged, for then they create markets and jobs which is better for all.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
But the poor get a prebate with the FairTax..so it does not affect them at all. What we have now is a unfair and complex tax code of over 67000 pages. Even the IRS here in the US has admitted that it's too big and too complicated to run. The Fairtax calls for a 23% tax on "New" items. used are exempt. There is a prebate for those who's incomes fall below a certain amount ( ie if you are poor you don't have to pay a sales tax) Everyone pays the same amount. There are no corporate taxes, no payroll taxes, no income tax. Think of the growth potential! We are only taxed on consumption at the cash register. Left wing governments do love a big government and taxes for the reason you stated. Not sure socialism is the way we need to go in the US.
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Not sure how many of you in the USA are familiar with the FairTax movement. Since this is tax day here in the US I thought I would post and bring it to your attention. Especially since many of you are ISV and programmers working for yourselves. The FairTax would mean the elimination of all forms of income tax, including payroll taxes and medicare and Social Security tax. It would be replaced by a consumption tax on new items that are purchased. The only problem I have with this is that food and medicine would be taxed. A prebate would exist for those who earn less than X amount of dollars so they are not burdened with the tax. In my mind it seems to make sense since I can control what I purchase. I don't have to have that expensive new 52 inch tv. I do expect manufacturers to get around the tax by offering discounts on the merchandise, so that the items will still be affordable. That means prices in general will go down unless raw materials go up...ie oil goes up. How many of you know about the FairTax and if you are not in the USA would you think it would work in your own countries.?
Any tax that replaces our current tax would probably be better... :sigh: - almost 50% on salary - 58% on all bonusses on your salary - 21% VAT on must products - municipality taxes - ... not much left :( . (don't get me started on what the government, which we actually don't have for the moment, does with all this money)
V.
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Not sure how many of you in the USA are familiar with the FairTax movement. Since this is tax day here in the US I thought I would post and bring it to your attention. Especially since many of you are ISV and programmers working for yourselves. The FairTax would mean the elimination of all forms of income tax, including payroll taxes and medicare and Social Security tax. It would be replaced by a consumption tax on new items that are purchased. The only problem I have with this is that food and medicine would be taxed. A prebate would exist for those who earn less than X amount of dollars so they are not burdened with the tax. In my mind it seems to make sense since I can control what I purchase. I don't have to have that expensive new 52 inch tv. I do expect manufacturers to get around the tax by offering discounts on the merchandise, so that the items will still be affordable. That means prices in general will go down unless raw materials go up...ie oil goes up. How many of you know about the FairTax and if you are not in the USA would you think it would work in your own countries.?
That's called VAT in England and it's not amazing as you can buy things second hand and you don't have to pay VAT. Also what do you do about services ? They can be paid for by cash and hence removed from the loop. So if you work in services and by second hand you'd never pay any tax, not ideal I think you can agree. Only a range of taxes is fair although complicated.
James Binary Warrior.
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Our government already is far ahead. They try to tax every form of income and have sales taxes. In case of gasoline they even have several taxes with the sales tax on top of the others. That's brilliant. Paying taxes on the other taxes.
"I just exchanged opinions with my boss. I went in with mine and came out with his." - me, 2011 ---
I am endeavoring, Madam, to construct a mnemonic memory circuit using stone knives and bearskins - Mr. Spock 1935 and me 2011 -
Not sure how many of you in the USA are familiar with the FairTax movement. Since this is tax day here in the US I thought I would post and bring it to your attention. Especially since many of you are ISV and programmers working for yourselves. The FairTax would mean the elimination of all forms of income tax, including payroll taxes and medicare and Social Security tax. It would be replaced by a consumption tax on new items that are purchased. The only problem I have with this is that food and medicine would be taxed. A prebate would exist for those who earn less than X amount of dollars so they are not burdened with the tax. In my mind it seems to make sense since I can control what I purchase. I don't have to have that expensive new 52 inch tv. I do expect manufacturers to get around the tax by offering discounts on the merchandise, so that the items will still be affordable. That means prices in general will go down unless raw materials go up...ie oil goes up. How many of you know about the FairTax and if you are not in the USA would you think it would work in your own countries.?
mindserve wrote:
The FairTax would mean the elimination of all forms of income tax, including payroll taxes and medicare and Social Security tax
are you proposing to eliminate SS and Medicare, too ?
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But the poor get a prebate with the FairTax..so it does not affect them at all. What we have now is a unfair and complex tax code of over 67000 pages. Even the IRS here in the US has admitted that it's too big and too complicated to run. The Fairtax calls for a 23% tax on "New" items. used are exempt. There is a prebate for those who's incomes fall below a certain amount ( ie if you are poor you don't have to pay a sales tax) Everyone pays the same amount. There are no corporate taxes, no payroll taxes, no income tax. Think of the growth potential! We are only taxed on consumption at the cash register. Left wing governments do love a big government and taxes for the reason you stated. Not sure socialism is the way we need to go in the US.
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And why would you think I have a car that needs only 3L Diesel for 100 km? :)
"I just exchanged opinions with my boss. I went in with mine and came out with his." - me, 2011 ---
I am endeavoring, Madam, to construct a mnemonic memory circuit using stone knives and bearskins - Mr. Spock 1935 and me 2011 -
mindserve wrote:
The FairTax would mean the elimination of all forms of income tax, including payroll taxes and medicare and Social Security tax
are you proposing to eliminate SS and Medicare, too ?
No, it does not eliminate Social security, medicare or medicaid..it funds those systems which are basically heading towards bankruptcy. It will mean that everyone will get SS and medicare or medicaid and not have to worry about "Cuts" which is what they are talking about now.
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That's called VAT in England and it's not amazing as you can buy things second hand and you don't have to pay VAT. Also what do you do about services ? They can be paid for by cash and hence removed from the loop. So if you work in services and by second hand you'd never pay any tax, not ideal I think you can agree. Only a range of taxes is fair although complicated.
James Binary Warrior.
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Any tax that replaces our current tax would probably be better... :sigh: - almost 50% on salary - 58% on all bonusses on your salary - 21% VAT on must products - municipality taxes - ... not much left :( . (don't get me started on what the government, which we actually don't have for the moment, does with all this money)
V.
You are paying a very high rate of tax..almost 50% of the people in the US do not pay any taxes due to all kinds of tax breaks for families etc. This is why we are in trouble now. Everyone should be paying at the point of consumption not on earned income. Prebates for the poor. They won't pay taxes and will have to prove they are poor and not driving some expensive car or living in a big expensive home while paying for food with food stamps..has happened here before.
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And why would you think I have a car that needs only 3L Diesel for 100 km? :)
"I just exchanged opinions with my boss. I went in with mine and came out with his." - me, 2011 ---
I am endeavoring, Madam, to construct a mnemonic memory circuit using stone knives and bearskins - Mr. Spock 1935 and me 2011 -
But the poor get a prebate with the FairTax..so it does not affect them at all. What we have now is a unfair and complex tax code of over 67000 pages. Even the IRS here in the US has admitted that it's too big and too complicated to run. The Fairtax calls for a 23% tax on "New" items. used are exempt. There is a prebate for those who's incomes fall below a certain amount ( ie if you are poor you don't have to pay a sales tax) Everyone pays the same amount. There are no corporate taxes, no payroll taxes, no income tax. Think of the growth potential! We are only taxed on consumption at the cash register. Left wing governments do love a big government and taxes for the reason you stated. Not sure socialism is the way we need to go in the US.
na uh ... you said "flat rate consumption tax" ... the moment you start adding allowances for this or that group of people or products you're back where you started with a tax code dave's 10% flat rate on all income is the only fair way to do things
"mostly watching the human race is like watching dogs watch tv ... they see the pictures move but the meaning escapes them"
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No, it does not eliminate Social security, medicare or medicaid..it funds those systems which are basically heading towards bankruptcy. It will mean that everyone will get SS and medicare or medicaid and not have to worry about "Cuts" which is what they are talking about now.
so, you're talking about something like a 30% sales tax? yeah, right. nobody would pay it. fraud would be widespread.
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You are paying a very high rate of tax..almost 50% of the people in the US do not pay any taxes due to all kinds of tax breaks for families etc. This is why we are in trouble now. Everyone should be paying at the point of consumption not on earned income. Prebates for the poor. They won't pay taxes and will have to prove they are poor and not driving some expensive car or living in a big expensive home while paying for food with food stamps..has happened here before.