Why is it that we don't have a FairTax in the USA? Would it work in other countries too?
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I'd think almost the opposite would be more beneficial all round... If every entity (individual or business) was taxed at a flat rate for all forms of income, no tax free amounts, no change in rate, if money goes into your account, you pay the government x% end of story. Sure, it's not quite as simple as it sounds on the surface, but it would be vastly cheaper to administer, fairer all round (everyone pays the same percentage of everything they earn - however it is earned) and easier to police too. No more 'I won it at the bookies, govenor' - tough - you pay tax on it. You only earn the bare minimum wage - well sorry, but you pay tax on it. Your company makes a loss? Ok you don't pay tax - but you don't get no tax back either. You buy something? Tax Free to you - but income for the store - so they pay tax on that income. You provide a service for money - you pay tax on the money that is paid to you. I'd love to hear from someone as to why this wouldn't work!
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
That is the best and most effective solution. It's simple to administer and easy to understand. I earn 10$ and I need to give away 10% of that.I dont get it, why dont people and nations simplify stuff ? Good thinking _Maxx_.I often think about tellng this idea to people and then retract because people just love to be crazy.
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That is the best and most effective solution. It's simple to administer and easy to understand. I earn 10$ and I need to give away 10% of that.I dont get it, why dont people and nations simplify stuff ? Good thinking _Maxx_.I often think about tellng this idea to people and then retract because people just love to be crazy.
Our government already is far ahead. They try to tax every form of income and have sales taxes. In case of gasoline they even have several taxes with the sales tax on top of the others. That's brilliant. Paying taxes on the other taxes.
"I just exchanged opinions with my boss. I went in with mine and came out with his." - me, 2011 ---
I am endeavoring, Madam, to construct a mnemonic memory circuit using stone knives and bearskins - Mr. Spock 1935 and me 2011 -
Really bad idea. It adversely affects the less well off, who would then be paying more tax as a percentage of income. What is needed is a universal rate system. 10% of all income is taxed, 10% on Purchases, 10% on Corporation tax etc. A complex and unweildy tax system is used to control and monitor people, it is a form of economic slavery. Left Wing governments love it because it allows for more intrusion into the lives of its citizens. Simpler Tax systems are easier to enforce, and, generally, raise more money for the state, and allow more money to be kept for the workers. (This is because there is less red tape and bureaucracy involved in calculation, and the same with collection.) Also, whilst I am on the subject... Incremental rate hikes for higher earners make no sense... Taking ever larger %'s from the high earners may seem like a good idea for the socialists/trotskyites, but it acts as a disenfranchisement. "The harder I work, the less I am rewarded" is not going to encourage people to work. And the higher earners are the ones we need working. The lower earners are given the tax breaks, and yet are less productive for the country. We need the higher earners to be encouraged, for then they create markets and jobs which is better for all.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
But the poor get a prebate with the FairTax..so it does not affect them at all. What we have now is a unfair and complex tax code of over 67000 pages. Even the IRS here in the US has admitted that it's too big and too complicated to run. The Fairtax calls for a 23% tax on "New" items. used are exempt. There is a prebate for those who's incomes fall below a certain amount ( ie if you are poor you don't have to pay a sales tax) Everyone pays the same amount. There are no corporate taxes, no payroll taxes, no income tax. Think of the growth potential! We are only taxed on consumption at the cash register. Left wing governments do love a big government and taxes for the reason you stated. Not sure socialism is the way we need to go in the US.
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Not sure how many of you in the USA are familiar with the FairTax movement. Since this is tax day here in the US I thought I would post and bring it to your attention. Especially since many of you are ISV and programmers working for yourselves. The FairTax would mean the elimination of all forms of income tax, including payroll taxes and medicare and Social Security tax. It would be replaced by a consumption tax on new items that are purchased. The only problem I have with this is that food and medicine would be taxed. A prebate would exist for those who earn less than X amount of dollars so they are not burdened with the tax. In my mind it seems to make sense since I can control what I purchase. I don't have to have that expensive new 52 inch tv. I do expect manufacturers to get around the tax by offering discounts on the merchandise, so that the items will still be affordable. That means prices in general will go down unless raw materials go up...ie oil goes up. How many of you know about the FairTax and if you are not in the USA would you think it would work in your own countries.?
Any tax that replaces our current tax would probably be better... :sigh: - almost 50% on salary - 58% on all bonusses on your salary - 21% VAT on must products - municipality taxes - ... not much left :( . (don't get me started on what the government, which we actually don't have for the moment, does with all this money)
V.
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Not sure how many of you in the USA are familiar with the FairTax movement. Since this is tax day here in the US I thought I would post and bring it to your attention. Especially since many of you are ISV and programmers working for yourselves. The FairTax would mean the elimination of all forms of income tax, including payroll taxes and medicare and Social Security tax. It would be replaced by a consumption tax on new items that are purchased. The only problem I have with this is that food and medicine would be taxed. A prebate would exist for those who earn less than X amount of dollars so they are not burdened with the tax. In my mind it seems to make sense since I can control what I purchase. I don't have to have that expensive new 52 inch tv. I do expect manufacturers to get around the tax by offering discounts on the merchandise, so that the items will still be affordable. That means prices in general will go down unless raw materials go up...ie oil goes up. How many of you know about the FairTax and if you are not in the USA would you think it would work in your own countries.?
That's called VAT in England and it's not amazing as you can buy things second hand and you don't have to pay VAT. Also what do you do about services ? They can be paid for by cash and hence removed from the loop. So if you work in services and by second hand you'd never pay any tax, not ideal I think you can agree. Only a range of taxes is fair although complicated.
James Binary Warrior.
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Our government already is far ahead. They try to tax every form of income and have sales taxes. In case of gasoline they even have several taxes with the sales tax on top of the others. That's brilliant. Paying taxes on the other taxes.
"I just exchanged opinions with my boss. I went in with mine and came out with his." - me, 2011 ---
I am endeavoring, Madam, to construct a mnemonic memory circuit using stone knives and bearskins - Mr. Spock 1935 and me 2011 -
Not sure how many of you in the USA are familiar with the FairTax movement. Since this is tax day here in the US I thought I would post and bring it to your attention. Especially since many of you are ISV and programmers working for yourselves. The FairTax would mean the elimination of all forms of income tax, including payroll taxes and medicare and Social Security tax. It would be replaced by a consumption tax on new items that are purchased. The only problem I have with this is that food and medicine would be taxed. A prebate would exist for those who earn less than X amount of dollars so they are not burdened with the tax. In my mind it seems to make sense since I can control what I purchase. I don't have to have that expensive new 52 inch tv. I do expect manufacturers to get around the tax by offering discounts on the merchandise, so that the items will still be affordable. That means prices in general will go down unless raw materials go up...ie oil goes up. How many of you know about the FairTax and if you are not in the USA would you think it would work in your own countries.?
mindserve wrote:
The FairTax would mean the elimination of all forms of income tax, including payroll taxes and medicare and Social Security tax
are you proposing to eliminate SS and Medicare, too ?
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But the poor get a prebate with the FairTax..so it does not affect them at all. What we have now is a unfair and complex tax code of over 67000 pages. Even the IRS here in the US has admitted that it's too big and too complicated to run. The Fairtax calls for a 23% tax on "New" items. used are exempt. There is a prebate for those who's incomes fall below a certain amount ( ie if you are poor you don't have to pay a sales tax) Everyone pays the same amount. There are no corporate taxes, no payroll taxes, no income tax. Think of the growth potential! We are only taxed on consumption at the cash register. Left wing governments do love a big government and taxes for the reason you stated. Not sure socialism is the way we need to go in the US.
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And why would you think I have a car that needs only 3L Diesel for 100 km? :)
"I just exchanged opinions with my boss. I went in with mine and came out with his." - me, 2011 ---
I am endeavoring, Madam, to construct a mnemonic memory circuit using stone knives and bearskins - Mr. Spock 1935 and me 2011 -
mindserve wrote:
The FairTax would mean the elimination of all forms of income tax, including payroll taxes and medicare and Social Security tax
are you proposing to eliminate SS and Medicare, too ?
No, it does not eliminate Social security, medicare or medicaid..it funds those systems which are basically heading towards bankruptcy. It will mean that everyone will get SS and medicare or medicaid and not have to worry about "Cuts" which is what they are talking about now.
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That's called VAT in England and it's not amazing as you can buy things second hand and you don't have to pay VAT. Also what do you do about services ? They can be paid for by cash and hence removed from the loop. So if you work in services and by second hand you'd never pay any tax, not ideal I think you can agree. Only a range of taxes is fair although complicated.
James Binary Warrior.
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Any tax that replaces our current tax would probably be better... :sigh: - almost 50% on salary - 58% on all bonusses on your salary - 21% VAT on must products - municipality taxes - ... not much left :( . (don't get me started on what the government, which we actually don't have for the moment, does with all this money)
V.
You are paying a very high rate of tax..almost 50% of the people in the US do not pay any taxes due to all kinds of tax breaks for families etc. This is why we are in trouble now. Everyone should be paying at the point of consumption not on earned income. Prebates for the poor. They won't pay taxes and will have to prove they are poor and not driving some expensive car or living in a big expensive home while paying for food with food stamps..has happened here before.
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And why would you think I have a car that needs only 3L Diesel for 100 km? :)
"I just exchanged opinions with my boss. I went in with mine and came out with his." - me, 2011 ---
I am endeavoring, Madam, to construct a mnemonic memory circuit using stone knives and bearskins - Mr. Spock 1935 and me 2011 -
But the poor get a prebate with the FairTax..so it does not affect them at all. What we have now is a unfair and complex tax code of over 67000 pages. Even the IRS here in the US has admitted that it's too big and too complicated to run. The Fairtax calls for a 23% tax on "New" items. used are exempt. There is a prebate for those who's incomes fall below a certain amount ( ie if you are poor you don't have to pay a sales tax) Everyone pays the same amount. There are no corporate taxes, no payroll taxes, no income tax. Think of the growth potential! We are only taxed on consumption at the cash register. Left wing governments do love a big government and taxes for the reason you stated. Not sure socialism is the way we need to go in the US.
na uh ... you said "flat rate consumption tax" ... the moment you start adding allowances for this or that group of people or products you're back where you started with a tax code dave's 10% flat rate on all income is the only fair way to do things
"mostly watching the human race is like watching dogs watch tv ... they see the pictures move but the meaning escapes them"
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No, it does not eliminate Social security, medicare or medicaid..it funds those systems which are basically heading towards bankruptcy. It will mean that everyone will get SS and medicare or medicaid and not have to worry about "Cuts" which is what they are talking about now.
so, you're talking about something like a 30% sales tax? yeah, right. nobody would pay it. fraud would be widespread.
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You are paying a very high rate of tax..almost 50% of the people in the US do not pay any taxes due to all kinds of tax breaks for families etc. This is why we are in trouble now. Everyone should be paying at the point of consumption not on earned income. Prebates for the poor. They won't pay taxes and will have to prove they are poor and not driving some expensive car or living in a big expensive home while paying for food with food stamps..has happened here before.
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That is the best and most effective solution. It's simple to administer and easy to understand. I earn 10$ and I need to give away 10% of that.I dont get it, why dont people and nations simplify stuff ? Good thinking _Maxx_.I often think about tellng this idea to people and then retract because people just love to be crazy.
T1000_ wrote:
I dont get it, why dont people and nations simplify stuff
because, politicians use the tax code to reward their supporters. this "fair tax" system would, in no time at all, be littered with the same kinds of loopholes and giveaways that make our current system so complex. it's just the nature of politics.
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Really bad idea. It adversely affects the less well off, who would then be paying more tax as a percentage of income. What is needed is a universal rate system. 10% of all income is taxed, 10% on Purchases, 10% on Corporation tax etc. A complex and unweildy tax system is used to control and monitor people, it is a form of economic slavery. Left Wing governments love it because it allows for more intrusion into the lives of its citizens. Simpler Tax systems are easier to enforce, and, generally, raise more money for the state, and allow more money to be kept for the workers. (This is because there is less red tape and bureaucracy involved in calculation, and the same with collection.) Also, whilst I am on the subject... Incremental rate hikes for higher earners make no sense... Taking ever larger %'s from the high earners may seem like a good idea for the socialists/trotskyites, but it acts as a disenfranchisement. "The harder I work, the less I am rewarded" is not going to encourage people to work. And the higher earners are the ones we need working. The lower earners are given the tax breaks, and yet are less productive for the country. We need the higher earners to be encouraged, for then they create markets and jobs which is better for all.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
It would have to be a bit more complex than that. In the U.S., we have federal AND state, and sometimes even city income taxes. And then there are sales taxes. If both the feds AND the states started collecting sales taxes, everything would end up costing 25% again as much as it does now. And then there's property taxes. How does that get resolved? I personally think that any property that's been paid off should be exempt from property taxes 9or at least significantly discounted). I think that once you reach a certain age, and if you've been paying income taxes for the immediately previous 20 years income should no longer taxable. In fact, i think that as you get older, your income taxes should be reduced or a portion of your taxes should be set aside in some sort of retirement account that you control but that you can't access until you become 65 or so. There is no "one good answer", and there are certainly a raft of other good ideas. These are just musings without any more thought devoted to them than the time it took to write them down. As a result, I'm not interested in defending any of these ideas, so do with them as you will.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
We are paying over $4 a gallon for gas here. More in some areas of the country. We drive a lot here and public transportation outside of the big cities is not good. Go hybrid..go green.
Well tha's more than 1/3 cheaper than here. With a quick calculation I got 6.30 € per gallon, assuming current prices. But my little car is no hybrid and Diesel is cheaper.
"I just exchanged opinions with my boss. I went in with mine and came out with his." - me, 2011 ---
I am endeavoring, Madam, to construct a mnemonic memory circuit using stone knives and bearskins - Mr. Spock 1935 and me 2011 -
Really bad idea. It adversely affects the less well off, who would then be paying more tax as a percentage of income. What is needed is a universal rate system. 10% of all income is taxed, 10% on Purchases, 10% on Corporation tax etc. A complex and unweildy tax system is used to control and monitor people, it is a form of economic slavery. Left Wing governments love it because it allows for more intrusion into the lives of its citizens. Simpler Tax systems are easier to enforce, and, generally, raise more money for the state, and allow more money to be kept for the workers. (This is because there is less red tape and bureaucracy involved in calculation, and the same with collection.) Also, whilst I am on the subject... Incremental rate hikes for higher earners make no sense... Taking ever larger %'s from the high earners may seem like a good idea for the socialists/trotskyites, but it acts as a disenfranchisement. "The harder I work, the less I am rewarded" is not going to encourage people to work. And the higher earners are the ones we need working. The lower earners are given the tax breaks, and yet are less productive for the country. We need the higher earners to be encouraged, for then they create markets and jobs which is better for all.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
Left Wing governments love it because it allows for more intrusion into the lives of its citizens.
Right-wing governments love it because it allows them to cut one tax while raising others by twice as much, and still claim to have cut taxes.
Dalek Dave wrote:
"The harder I work, the less I am rewarded" is not going to encourage people to work.
Bollocks. The more you earn, the more you are rewarded. If you make three million, you still take home a cr@pload more than us poor suckers who only make two million. I'd be happy to take home an extra five-hundred-odd thousand for every million that's added to my gross (more than five-hundred-odd in the UK; taxes here are higher). The top rate is the same for every penny earned by anyone who goes over the threshold, but the right wing always tries to make it look as if earning more money means that you start paying more than 100% in tax, and actually become poorer if you make more. The fact is that if you take two extra percent away from someone earning 20,000 a year, it hits them a lot harder than someone losing half a percent of his fifth million. Let's not forget how many hard-working people were dropped below the official poverty line during the thatcher years -- but that was OK, because her rich pals all got a load of extra money for nothing, didn't they? And the poor ****ers lower down the scale are the ones who are forced to work hardest and are treated worst by their employers, so don't give me that "all my hard work" cr@p.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!