Help fix performance problems in VS
-
Joe Woodbury wrote:
And if I do pay $800, don't I have a right to complain loudly when it doesn't work right?
Same thing I tell my kids. Complain once, OK. Complain incessantly for weeks on end, not OK. Some things don't get fixed. Software has bugs. Get over it. Move on. If VS doesn't work for you, don't use it. If you use it, and it has problems, don't just bitch about it. Do something about it. The thing I linked to is a step in the right direction. I wouldn't mind the complaining if there was also an acknowledgment of improvements. For example, VS 2010 doesn't leak memory like 2008 did. (Try opening/closing a 30 proj solution 10 times, for example.) Do I see any, "Oh, sweet, they fixed some memory leaks" posts? Nope. Just more bitching.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah HimangoJudah Himango wrote:
If you use it, and it has problems, don't just bitch about it. Do something about it.
This is me getting angry: For the last time, when we DO try to do something about it, we're essentially told BY MICROSOFT that we're wasting our time in doing so. I reported the syntax coloring bug BEFORE VS2010 went into beta. It's now MORE BROKEN than it was in VS2008. They took away MDI windows because WPF doesn't support MDI. They claim they did a survey of developers before making that call. WHAT SURVEY!? NOBODY here ever heard about a frakking survey. You'd think that what could arguably be called the 2nd largest conglomeration of MS developers on the FRAKKING planet would have heard about a survey if it existed. We won't even start to discuss the mysterious freezes, laggy response in the editor, and the weird assed sh*t I experienced on Sunday with regards to the debugger on a simple console app. This is me calming down a little:
Judah Himango wrote:
I wouldn't mind the complaining if there was also an acknowledgment of improvements.
Haven't you ever heard that old saying, "You're only as good as your last bad act"? Just give in to the dark side, Judah. We'll still let you be our friends. Honest.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Judah Himango wrote:
Complain once, OK. Complain incessantly for weeks on end, not OK
That's a load of crap and you know it. Microsoft doesn't respond unless you complain loudly and often. (Same with Apple and many other companies.) There were bug fixes in the release version of VS 2010 that happened only becuase I complained incessantly to everyone in Microsoft management that I could contact. There was another blantantly obvious issue they refused to even look at until dozens of people had added comments to the bug report.
Joe Woodbury wrote:
There were bug fixes in the release version of VS 2010
Bingo. There were fixes because you did something. (Not just bitch in the CP forums.) I don't mind the bitching if you're trying to improve things. That's why I linked to this tool. It can improve things. But if you don't try to improve things, and all you're doing is bitching to CP, I've no respect for that.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango -
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
So the next time a service pack comes out, we have to UNINSTALL the plugin(s), install the service pack, reinstall the plug-ins, and we're good to go a few hours later?
Is that the way the plugin system works? Will you eat your words if, when the next SP comes out, you don't have to do that? Will you write a post praising the VS plugin system? :) I wouldn't mind the complaining so much if there was also acknowledgment of improvements.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah HimangoJudah Himango wrote:
Is that the way the plugin system works? Will you eat your words if, when the next SP comes out, you don't have to do that? Will you write a post praising the VS plugin system?
Actually, I think the exact statement will be "It's about f*ckin' time they got it right...", and I'm sure a number of others will agree with the sentiment.
Judah Himango wrote:
I wouldn't mind the complaining so much if there was also acknowledgment of improvements.
I don't want new features. I don't use 90% of the stuff the IDE can do. I merely want the stuff I use to work without a hiccup.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Ian Shlasko wrote:
still uses XP
Wow. 11 year old OS. Yikes.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah HimangoHey, I'm still using W2K at work :sigh:
Steve _________________ I C(++) therefore I am
-
Judah Himango wrote:
If you use it, and it has problems, don't just bitch about it. Do something about it.
This is me getting angry: For the last time, when we DO try to do something about it, we're essentially told BY MICROSOFT that we're wasting our time in doing so. I reported the syntax coloring bug BEFORE VS2010 went into beta. It's now MORE BROKEN than it was in VS2008. They took away MDI windows because WPF doesn't support MDI. They claim they did a survey of developers before making that call. WHAT SURVEY!? NOBODY here ever heard about a frakking survey. You'd think that what could arguably be called the 2nd largest conglomeration of MS developers on the FRAKKING planet would have heard about a survey if it existed. We won't even start to discuss the mysterious freezes, laggy response in the editor, and the weird assed sh*t I experienced on Sunday with regards to the debugger on a simple console app. This is me calming down a little:
Judah Himango wrote:
I wouldn't mind the complaining if there was also an acknowledgment of improvements.
Haven't you ever heard that old saying, "You're only as good as your last bad act"? Just give in to the dark side, Judah. We'll still let you be our friends. Honest.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997Yeah, but Joe just mentioned that some bugs *did* get fixed because he reported them to MS. Why didn't we hear about those? Instead, all we heard was more whining about the ones that didn't get fixed. You're complaining that they didn't fix a syntax color bug. You're complaining they don't have MDI windows. You're implying they lied about taking a survey on the MDI thing. So what? They took away MDI? Boo freaking hoo. Get over it. You're not a 5 year old. Software is imperfect. Move on. If it really matters that much to you, keep talking to Microsoft, stop bitching to CP about how terrible your life is because of it. When every CP thread is met with cynicism, it's gone too far. Oh, if VS has an MDI, I'm going to start bitching.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango -
Joe Woodbury wrote:
There were bug fixes in the release version of VS 2010
Bingo. There were fixes because you did something. (Not just bitch in the CP forums.) I don't mind the bitching if you're trying to improve things. That's why I linked to this tool. It can improve things. But if you don't try to improve things, and all you're doing is bitching to CP, I've no respect for that.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah HimangoAre you even listening. We HAVE tried to make other changes and Microsoft tells us to fuck off. Hence, we come here and bitch, some of us with the hope that being called out publically will embarasss Microsoft into acting. But do make note that the ONLY reason those bugs got fixed is because I bitched and moaned on CodeProject and various blogs run by Microsoft managers. In other words, I did what we are doing here. It was the ONLY thing that was effect. Microsoft not only ignored Connect but closed the damn bugs with "can't reproduce, won't fix" (though they were readily reproducable.)
Judah Himango wrote:
But if you don't try to improve things, and all you're doing is bitching to CP, I've no respect for that.
Who fucking said that? Are you even fucking reading. This is really pissing me off. We ARE filing bugs and Microsoft doesn't give a shit. Just like Apple, until you embarass them in public, THEY.DON'T.CARE.
-
Judah Himango wrote:
Is that the way the plugin system works? Will you eat your words if, when the next SP comes out, you don't have to do that? Will you write a post praising the VS plugin system?
Actually, I think the exact statement will be "It's about f*ckin' time they got it right...", and I'm sure a number of others will agree with the sentiment.
Judah Himango wrote:
I wouldn't mind the complaining so much if there was also acknowledgment of improvements.
I don't want new features. I don't use 90% of the stuff the IDE can do. I merely want the stuff I use to work without a hiccup.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I don't want new features
Yeah you do. You just complained 2010 doesn't have MDI. But I'm not talking about features. I'm talking about improvement. Examples: fewer memory leaks in 2010. The Add Reference dialog doesn't freeze the UI thread for 10 seconds. :-p
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Actually, I think the exact statement will be "It's about f*ckin' time they got it right...", and I'm sure a number of others will agree with the sentiment.
I may be mistaken about this, John, but I think the plugin system works like that already. I didn't have to reinstall my plugins when VS 2010 SP1 was released last month. Guess I'll be waiting for a CP lounge thread saying, "It's about f*ckin' time they got it right..." ;)
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango -
Joe Woodbury wrote:
That's the problem. When I use it, VS 2010 rarely goes unresponsive for 2 seconds
Really? Mine freezes all the time... I could be in the middle of typing, and it'll just suddenly lock up for a good minute or two. It's gotten to the point that when it happens, I just browse a few websites and check back now and then to see if it's woken up yet.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)This plugin will help solve things then. Give it a shot, let us know how it works for you.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango -
Are you even listening. We HAVE tried to make other changes and Microsoft tells us to fuck off. Hence, we come here and bitch, some of us with the hope that being called out publically will embarasss Microsoft into acting. But do make note that the ONLY reason those bugs got fixed is because I bitched and moaned on CodeProject and various blogs run by Microsoft managers. In other words, I did what we are doing here. It was the ONLY thing that was effect. Microsoft not only ignored Connect but closed the damn bugs with "can't reproduce, won't fix" (though they were readily reproducable.)
Judah Himango wrote:
But if you don't try to improve things, and all you're doing is bitching to CP, I've no respect for that.
Who fucking said that? Are you even fucking reading. This is really pissing me off. We ARE filing bugs and Microsoft doesn't give a shit. Just like Apple, until you embarass them in public, THEY.DON'T.CARE.
You guys complain about performance. Fair. I post something, "Hey, here's a way to help improve perf in VS", then you bitch about *that*? That's not right. "Oh, they just won't listen, whaaaaaa!" Cry me a damn river. Get over it. You're not a 5 year old. MS *does* listen to feedback, and they do fix things. You even admit this. They just don't fix everything. Could improve on that front? Sure. But when every post here is met with cynical remarks, things have gone too far.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango -
Yeah, but Joe just mentioned that some bugs *did* get fixed because he reported them to MS. Why didn't we hear about those? Instead, all we heard was more whining about the ones that didn't get fixed. You're complaining that they didn't fix a syntax color bug. You're complaining they don't have MDI windows. You're implying they lied about taking a survey on the MDI thing. So what? They took away MDI? Boo freaking hoo. Get over it. You're not a 5 year old. Software is imperfect. Move on. If it really matters that much to you, keep talking to Microsoft, stop bitching to CP about how terrible your life is because of it. When every CP thread is met with cynicism, it's gone too far. Oh, if VS has an MDI, I'm going to start bitching.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah HimangoJudah Himango wrote:
Yeah, but Joe just mentioned that some bugs *did* get fixed because he reported them to MS
Read what I wrote. The bugs got fixed because I publicly complained about them; they ignored them when I simply reported them (and even closed most of them.) There is a HUGE difference. You are ignoring the simple fact that we talked to Microsoft over and over and until the were publicly embarassed, they did NOTHING.
Judah Himango wrote:
Software is imperfect.Move on.
This is such a bullshit attitude. We aren't talking about free or $50 software here, but $800+ software. I know you're just being a damn hypocrite because I'm sure you take back the $30 toaster that doesn't work right. I'm sure if you have a car with the same repair problem, you'd complain to both the company and governmental agencies. But somehow, you're all magnaniumous about software. Sure. (A dozen years ago there was a doozy of a bug in Adobe Premiere. I reported it and was told there was no bug. Others reported it and were told the same. We all started complaining publicly. Lo and behold, a patch [that wasn't in the works] suddenly came out and that bug was fixed [though weirdly, Adobe kept denying its existance.] I could got on and on about products that didn't get fixed until there was a public outcry.)
-
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I don't want new features
Yeah you do. You just complained 2010 doesn't have MDI. But I'm not talking about features. I'm talking about improvement. Examples: fewer memory leaks in 2010. The Add Reference dialog doesn't freeze the UI thread for 10 seconds. :-p
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Actually, I think the exact statement will be "It's about f*ckin' time they got it right...", and I'm sure a number of others will agree with the sentiment.
I may be mistaken about this, John, but I think the plugin system works like that already. I didn't have to reinstall my plugins when VS 2010 SP1 was released last month. Guess I'll be waiting for a CP lounge thread saying, "It's about f*ckin' time they got it right..." ;)
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango -
Judah Himango wrote:
Yeah, but Joe just mentioned that some bugs *did* get fixed because he reported them to MS
Read what I wrote. The bugs got fixed because I publicly complained about them; they ignored them when I simply reported them (and even closed most of them.) There is a HUGE difference. You are ignoring the simple fact that we talked to Microsoft over and over and until the were publicly embarassed, they did NOTHING.
Judah Himango wrote:
Software is imperfect.Move on.
This is such a bullshit attitude. We aren't talking about free or $50 software here, but $800+ software. I know you're just being a damn hypocrite because I'm sure you take back the $30 toaster that doesn't work right. I'm sure if you have a car with the same repair problem, you'd complain to both the company and governmental agencies. But somehow, you're all magnaniumous about software. Sure. (A dozen years ago there was a doozy of a bug in Adobe Premiere. I reported it and was told there was no bug. Others reported it and were told the same. We all started complaining publicly. Lo and behold, a patch [that wasn't in the works] suddenly came out and that bug was fixed [though weirdly, Adobe kept denying its existance.] I could got on and on about products that didn't get fixed until there was a public outcry.)
Reporting bugs to Microsoft is good. Bitching about problems without end, and not being willing to do anything to improve the situation, is the ugly thing. You sound like you've tried to do things about it in the past, with mixed results (some fixed, many not fixed). Ok, fine. I posted this thread about a tool that can improve the situation. It was met with cynical, sarcastic responses. How is that improving the situation? It's not. If people really are serious about improving things, this thread would have gone differently. All this community does is bitch about things. I *never* see stuff like, "oh, sweet, they fixed this", or "Oh, nice, they actually fixed one of my bugs." Seeing some of that would make all the bitching tolerable. But when it's 99% negative, I don't buy the BS that it's all MS's fault. I think people here really are negative, whiny old cynics who don't appreciate a damn thing; the only thing they know how to do is complain. I'm so sick of the negative, cynical personalities here on CP. It didn't used to be this way.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango -
Joe Woodbury wrote:
Microsoft claimed VS 2010 would be the next 6
Kinda remiscient of when they said they "re-wrote" SourceSafe so that it "didn't suck". And now we have that bloated over-priced mess called Team Foundation Suite.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997Hey, I'm no TFS fan (guess I'm still fond of good ol' SVN), but TFS was an improvement over VSS. Come on now, who remembers how bad that thing actually was? It made CVS look good.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango -
Judah Himango wrote:
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I don't want new features
Yeah you do. You just complained 2010 doesn't have MDI.
That's not a new feature; that's removing a regression.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
;P
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango -
This plugin will help solve things then. Give it a shot, let us know how it works for you.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah HimangoNope, only works in Vista/7... Running XP at the office, unfortunately.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Nope, only works in Vista/7... Running XP at the office, unfortunately.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Luddite...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Luddite...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997Hey, not by choice! Got Win7 x64 at home, and I love it... Much better than XP.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I don't want new features
Yeah you do. You just complained 2010 doesn't have MDI. But I'm not talking about features. I'm talking about improvement. Examples: fewer memory leaks in 2010. The Add Reference dialog doesn't freeze the UI thread for 10 seconds. :-p
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Actually, I think the exact statement will be "It's about f*ckin' time they got it right...", and I'm sure a number of others will agree with the sentiment.
I may be mistaken about this, John, but I think the plugin system works like that already. I didn't have to reinstall my plugins when VS 2010 SP1 was released last month. Guess I'll be waiting for a CP lounge thread saying, "It's about f*ckin' time they got it right..." ;)
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah HimangoJudah Himango wrote:
. I didn't have to reinstall my plugins when VS 2010 SP1 was released last month.
I still can't get Iron Ruby to work :((. It's funny to see one joke reply transcend into this monster. But you are right on many points, CP has become a place of whining about technology.
-
This sounds like an interesting VS plugin: VS PerfWatson[^]. The plugin detects when Visual Studio hangs. When it hangs, it sends the hung stack trace to MS. MS spends less time investigating VS performance problems and more time fixing them[^]. :cool:
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah HimangoOops - 1-voted instead of clicking for page 1 - off to Q&A to find out how to retract. [EDIT] Couldn't work out how to retract, so 5 voted it as well. Apologies, Stewart
modified on Tuesday, May 10, 2011 4:16 AM
-
Oops - 1-voted instead of clicking for page 1 - off to Q&A to find out how to retract. [EDIT] Couldn't work out how to retract, so 5 voted it as well. Apologies, Stewart
modified on Tuesday, May 10, 2011 4:16 AM
