The legacy of torture
-
The US also has a stated non-torture policy. Our constitution, our treaty obligations and US law all forbid it. Unfortunately, the previous adminstration chose to create a world-wide torture program and the current administration has chosen not to investigate or prosecute those crimes.
Pelosi was there, so the current administration might be trying to protect party members. Hell maybe Obama has no problem with it, if he did, he might try to do something about it.
Craigslist Troll: litaly@comcast.net "I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
-
Pelosi was there, so the current administration might be trying to protect party members. Hell maybe Obama has no problem with it, if he did, he might try to do something about it.
Craigslist Troll: litaly@comcast.net "I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
-
wizardzz wrote:
Pelosi was there
As well as all 434 other members of the house of representatives. What's your point?
You obviously have no idea what I'm talking about, she was literally there, hearing about it from the CIA. She is a Dem, and did nothing about it when Bushy was in office. http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/05/intelligence-re.html[^] http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/08/nation/na-interrogate8[^]
Craigslist Troll: litaly@comcast.net "I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
-
You obviously have no idea what I'm talking about, she was literally there, hearing about it from the CIA. She is a Dem, and did nothing about it when Bushy was in office. http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/05/intelligence-re.html[^] http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/08/nation/na-interrogate8[^]
Craigslist Troll: litaly@comcast.net "I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
Oh, I suspected that this is what you were alluding to, but since you didn't actually say what you meant, I was not going to put words in your mouth. Pelosi may or may not have know that one individual had been waterboarded. If she knew and did nothing about it, that's terrible I guess it might even be a crime. But, of course, in 2002 the Republicans were the majority in the house and Porter Goss was the Republican chairman of the House intelligence committee at the time. But this is irrelevant to what I said. It was Bush and HIS executive branch the created the world-wide torture regime. Not Nancy Pelosi, not even Porter Goss. Whatever blamed can be laid on Pelosi individually or the Republican controlled congress collectively - Bush, Cheney, Rice, Ashcroft, Gonzalez, Addington, Yoo and others were the ones who created it and sustained it.
-
Oh, I suspected that this is what you were alluding to, but since you didn't actually say what you meant, I was not going to put words in your mouth. Pelosi may or may not have know that one individual had been waterboarded. If she knew and did nothing about it, that's terrible I guess it might even be a crime. But, of course, in 2002 the Republicans were the majority in the house and Porter Goss was the Republican chairman of the House intelligence committee at the time. But this is irrelevant to what I said. It was Bush and HIS executive branch the created the world-wide torture regime. Not Nancy Pelosi, not even Porter Goss. Whatever blamed can be laid on Pelosi individually or the Republican controlled congress collectively - Bush, Cheney, Rice, Ashcroft, Gonzalez, Addington, Yoo and others were the ones who created it and sustained it.
Ok, so now you are putting words in my mouth. I was explaining why the current administration might not be doing anything about it. If you look at my original reply, that is exactly what I was saying. Obama's admin might not want to throw Pelosi in with the Bush admin people that would be investigated. Pelosi was there, so the current administration might be trying to protect party members. Hell maybe Obama has no problem with it, if he did, he might try to do something about it.
Craigslist Troll: litaly@comcast.net "I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
-
Ok, so now you are putting words in my mouth. I was explaining why the current administration might not be doing anything about it. If you look at my original reply, that is exactly what I was saying. Obama's admin might not want to throw Pelosi in with the Bush admin people that would be investigated. Pelosi was there, so the current administration might be trying to protect party members. Hell maybe Obama has no problem with it, if he did, he might try to do something about it.
Craigslist Troll: litaly@comcast.net "I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
Well I think that as far as political calculations are concerned protecting Nancy Pelosi's ass is way down on the list. More likely the bat-shit crazy freakout of the pro torture Republican party that would have occurred had the previous administration been investigated for war crimes was something Obama would not have wanted to deal with. Either way - I don't care. Bush and his minions committed war crimes and Obama broke the law by not investigating them.
-
The Ontario Court of Appeal has upheld a decision to halt extradition proceedings for an alleged Al-Qaeda arms supplier, citing the extent of US human rights abuses tied to his capture in Pakistan.[^] I will never understand why one of the two major parties in this country have embraced this immoral, illegal and useless practice.
Would it be ok with you if we just sent some SEALs up there to shoot him in the head? That appears to be a perfectly moral, legal and very useful practice. Now personally, I don't understand the logic with that, but the left seems to be understand it just fine. I mean, I haven't heard any of the Bush haters call Obama a war criminal.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
-
Would it be ok with you if we just sent some SEALs up there to shoot him in the head? That appears to be a perfectly moral, legal and very useful practice. Now personally, I don't understand the logic with that, but the left seems to be understand it just fine. I mean, I haven't heard any of the Bush haters call Obama a war criminal.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Would it be ok with you if we just sent some SEALs up there to shoot him in the head?
No. I dont see it as moral, legal or useful. If you think that this guy is somehow comparable to bin Laden, I disagree.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Now personally, I don't understand the logic with that, but the left seems to be understand it just fine.
Don't know what you mean.
Stan Shannon wrote:
I haven't heard any of the Bush haters call Obama a war criminal.
Then you haven't been listening.
-
Well I think that as far as political calculations are concerned protecting Nancy Pelosi's ass is way down on the list. More likely the bat-shit crazy freakout of the pro torture Republican party that would have occurred had the previous administration been investigated for war crimes was something Obama would not have wanted to deal with. Either way - I don't care. Bush and his minions committed war crimes and Obama broke the law by not investigating them.
You're also leaving out: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Obama may just be keeping the status quo, or benefiting from the use of aggressive interrogation, after all, Gitmo is still open 3 years after his election.
Craigslist Troll: litaly@comcast.net "I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
-
You're also leaving out: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Obama may just be keeping the status quo, or benefiting from the use of aggressive interrogation, after all, Gitmo is still open 3 years after his election.
Craigslist Troll: litaly@comcast.net "I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
I guess it's possible that Obama actually believes that torture is useful, but it seems unlikely. Because it isn't. Again, why Obama chooses to break the law by his failure to investigate the war crimes of the previous administration is something I really don't care about.
-
Stan Shannon wrote:
Would it be ok with you if we just sent some SEALs up there to shoot him in the head?
No. I dont see it as moral, legal or useful. If you think that this guy is somehow comparable to bin Laden, I disagree.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Now personally, I don't understand the logic with that, but the left seems to be understand it just fine.
Don't know what you mean.
Stan Shannon wrote:
I haven't heard any of the Bush haters call Obama a war criminal.
Then you haven't been listening.
I'm listening to you. You're calling Obama a war criminal? Should he be impeached?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
-
I guess it's possible that Obama actually believes that torture is useful, but it seems unlikely. Because it isn't. Again, why Obama chooses to break the law by his failure to investigate the war crimes of the previous administration is something I really don't care about.
Majerus wrote:
I guess it's possible that Obama actually believes that torture is useful, but it seems unlikely. Because it isn't.
Haha, well maybe that's what they get when it's outsourced. Need codez! (waterboarding) urgntzzzz!
Craigslist Troll: litaly@comcast.net "I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
-
I'm listening to you. You're calling Obama a war criminal? Should he be impeached?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
-
Would it be ok with you if we just sent some SEALs up there to shoot him in the head? That appears to be a perfectly moral, legal and very useful practice. Now personally, I don't understand the logic with that, but the left seems to be understand it just fine. I mean, I haven't heard any of the Bush haters call Obama a war criminal.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
I haven't heard any of the Bush haters call Obama a war criminal.
I have, in the news, occaisionally here, well not a war criminal exactly, but the legality it is being questioned. That wouldn't make Obama a war criminal BTW, just a plain old accessory to murder or whatever the US equivalent is, if different.
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
-Or-
A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^] -
Majerus wrote:
Let's talk after Bush and Cheney are in prison for life.
Thats what I thought - typical lefty hypocrisy on parade once again. Not that it will make any difference of course, as you guys are answerable to no one. Poor old Bush, it is obvious that the man was trying to use the power of his office as judiciously as possible in order to avoid being labeled by people like you. But Obama can send teams of assassins out into the world to gun down unarmed suspects without even the slightest sort of due process, and you have no comment. That is the main reason why leftist politics are so dangerous - you guys don't care about law or morality as long as the thug in charge is keeping the slop shovled into the trough.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
-
Majerus wrote:
Let's talk after Bush and Cheney are in prison for life.
Thats what I thought - typical lefty hypocrisy on parade once again. Not that it will make any difference of course, as you guys are answerable to no one. Poor old Bush, it is obvious that the man was trying to use the power of his office as judiciously as possible in order to avoid being labeled by people like you. But Obama can send teams of assassins out into the world to gun down unarmed suspects without even the slightest sort of due process, and you have no comment. That is the main reason why leftist politics are so dangerous - you guys don't care about law or morality as long as the thug in charge is keeping the slop shovled into the trough.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
-
When you actually want to have a conversation with me instead of some strawman "leftist", let me know. I haven't been hypocritical about anything in this thread. So if you wish to speak to me than do so. Otherwise just STFU.
Majerus wrote:
Otherwise just STFU.
No. You're a leftist, Obama is a leftist and the democrat party is a leftist party. Radically so, in fact. And that is precisely the issue. You don't want Bush and Cheney punished for water-boarding key terroist leaders in a carefully managed enviroment. You want them punished for being conservatives. The slack you give Obama for doing far worse is proof of that. You have no morality. All you have is your rage. So, why don't you STFU?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
-
Stan Shannon wrote:
I haven't heard any of the Bush haters call Obama a war criminal.
I have, in the news, occaisionally here, well not a war criminal exactly, but the legality it is being questioned. That wouldn't make Obama a war criminal BTW, just a plain old accessory to murder or whatever the US equivalent is, if different.
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
-Or-
A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^]I'll take your word for it. But whatever it is, it is certainly the end of the radical left's 'legacy of torture' bullshit. They need to have Obama's assasination of bin Ladin thrown in their face everytime they mention it. It clearly defines the hypocrisy of the left. All we heard from them for years was how water-boarding was swelling the ranks of al queda with outraged (but otherwise moderate) muslims. But gunning down their top guy won't have the same affect? Give me a break.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
-
Majerus wrote:
Otherwise just STFU.
No. You're a leftist, Obama is a leftist and the democrat party is a leftist party. Radically so, in fact. And that is precisely the issue. You don't want Bush and Cheney punished for water-boarding key terroist leaders in a carefully managed enviroment. You want them punished for being conservatives. The slack you give Obama for doing far worse is proof of that. You have no morality. All you have is your rage. So, why don't you STFU?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
More strawmen. You know nothing about me or my beliefs.
Stan Shannon wrote:
You're a leftist
No, I'm liberal.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Obama is a leftist and the democrat party is a leftist party.
Hardly. Obama is a right of center political. The Democratic party as a group might be a little left of center. My bad - You said democrat party. Never heard of them. Perhaps they are leftist. But they must be very small. have they ever put up a candidate for national office?
Stan Shannon wrote:
You don't want Bush and Cheney punished for water-boarding key terroist leaders in a carefully managed enviroment.
You want them punished for being conservatives.Well first off, torture chambers are not places that I would describe as "carefully managed environments." Good grief! 100 dead inmates screams careless and mismanaged. "Key Terrorists" - nice term if you wanted to define "Key" as anyone we could get our grubby hands on, but I won't. Why you think you can read minds is a mystery to me. Sorry to burst you bubble, but you can't. I want Bush and Cheney brought up on charges of war crimes because they are self-confessed war criminals.
Stan Shannon wrote:
The slack you give Obama for doing far worse is proof of that.
How can that possibly be proof of anything since you haven't provided proof that I've given Obama any slack.
Stan Shannon wrote:
You have no morality
Coming from someone who is a defender of torture, that is a real laugh.
Stan Shannon wrote:
All you have is your rage.
Coming from someone who has just posted a rant full of rage and hate gives me another laugh.
>
-
More strawmen. You know nothing about me or my beliefs.
Stan Shannon wrote:
You're a leftist
No, I'm liberal.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Obama is a leftist and the democrat party is a leftist party.
Hardly. Obama is a right of center political. The Democratic party as a group might be a little left of center. My bad - You said democrat party. Never heard of them. Perhaps they are leftist. But they must be very small. have they ever put up a candidate for national office?
Stan Shannon wrote:
You don't want Bush and Cheney punished for water-boarding key terroist leaders in a carefully managed enviroment.
You want them punished for being conservatives.Well first off, torture chambers are not places that I would describe as "carefully managed environments." Good grief! 100 dead inmates screams careless and mismanaged. "Key Terrorists" - nice term if you wanted to define "Key" as anyone we could get our grubby hands on, but I won't. Why you think you can read minds is a mystery to me. Sorry to burst you bubble, but you can't. I want Bush and Cheney brought up on charges of war crimes because they are self-confessed war criminals.
Stan Shannon wrote:
The slack you give Obama for doing far worse is proof of that.
How can that possibly be proof of anything since you haven't provided proof that I've given Obama any slack.
Stan Shannon wrote:
You have no morality
Coming from someone who is a defender of torture, that is a real laugh.
Stan Shannon wrote:
All you have is your rage.
Coming from someone who has just posted a rant full of rage and hate gives me another laugh.
>
But then, I never made a moral argument. I don't believe that there is any moral way to defend a society from those who wish to destroy it. When have we ever fought a 'moral' war? I expect those we elect to be our leaders to exclude morality from what ever means they deem necessary to defend the nation. Bush or Obama could have nuked every major city from Morocco to Pakistan and I would have been perfectly content. (Although, I will confess that I am not altogether comfortable with a traditonal branch of our conventional military being used as assassination teams. If we need assassination teams, they should be called assassination teams and probably controlled directly by the CIA. Missions like this I think tend to mar the tradition of honor the US Navy has always possessed)
Majerus wrote:
Obama is a right of center political. The Democratic party as a group might be a little left of center.
Now THAT is funny. Sure, you're not a leftist.... :laugh: The only reason we are not already a full blown communist state is because of the impediments the founding father's put in the democrat party's way. You're zeal to throw opposition leaders into prison on whatever trumped up charges you can find is, once more, all the proof anyone needs.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.