Yes, the Dark Side has cookies
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As much as I grumble about the wiggle a mouse, VB-ization (i.e. dumbing down) of programming, for clearly that's what the Windows development environment has become in .NET, it's just scandalous how easy it is to do things that once required, well, you know, writing lots of code. Disgusted with the Windows 7 Task Scheduler and needing a quick & simple solution for my backups, I cranked out a quick winforms app that runs in the system tray and fires off my programs at the appointed time. Timers, starting processes, writing to the event log, minimizing to the system tray (with thanks to Elroy's Minimize window to system tray[^]), just drop dead easy to do. I didn't want to make a project out of this, I just wanted to quickly solve a problem. And it was actually painless to do. I gotta hand it to the VB crowd. Having lived through the C++ versus VB wars in the corporate world, I must concede that you absolutely kicked our collective tail. Not only did you completely take over the development world with .NET -- the Visual Basic programming language thinly disguised as something else -- you even made it socially acceptable to use. "Hey, I'm no VB programmer - I did this in C#!" Well done, my old adversaries. :)
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Watch Bad Programmer! - Premieres May, 2011
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As much as I grumble about the wiggle a mouse, VB-ization (i.e. dumbing down) of programming, for clearly that's what the Windows development environment has become in .NET, it's just scandalous how easy it is to do things that once required, well, you know, writing lots of code. Disgusted with the Windows 7 Task Scheduler and needing a quick & simple solution for my backups, I cranked out a quick winforms app that runs in the system tray and fires off my programs at the appointed time. Timers, starting processes, writing to the event log, minimizing to the system tray (with thanks to Elroy's Minimize window to system tray[^]), just drop dead easy to do. I didn't want to make a project out of this, I just wanted to quickly solve a problem. And it was actually painless to do. I gotta hand it to the VB crowd. Having lived through the C++ versus VB wars in the corporate world, I must concede that you absolutely kicked our collective tail. Not only did you completely take over the development world with .NET -- the Visual Basic programming language thinly disguised as something else -- you even made it socially acceptable to use. "Hey, I'm no VB programmer - I did this in C#!" Well done, my old adversaries. :)
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Watch Bad Programmer! - Premieres May, 2011
Christopher Duncan wrote:
you even made it socially acceptable to use. "Hey, I'm no VB programmer - I did this in C#!"
:laugh: :thumbsup:
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As much as I grumble about the wiggle a mouse, VB-ization (i.e. dumbing down) of programming, for clearly that's what the Windows development environment has become in .NET, it's just scandalous how easy it is to do things that once required, well, you know, writing lots of code. Disgusted with the Windows 7 Task Scheduler and needing a quick & simple solution for my backups, I cranked out a quick winforms app that runs in the system tray and fires off my programs at the appointed time. Timers, starting processes, writing to the event log, minimizing to the system tray (with thanks to Elroy's Minimize window to system tray[^]), just drop dead easy to do. I didn't want to make a project out of this, I just wanted to quickly solve a problem. And it was actually painless to do. I gotta hand it to the VB crowd. Having lived through the C++ versus VB wars in the corporate world, I must concede that you absolutely kicked our collective tail. Not only did you completely take over the development world with .NET -- the Visual Basic programming language thinly disguised as something else -- you even made it socially acceptable to use. "Hey, I'm no VB programmer - I did this in C#!" Well done, my old adversaries. :)
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Watch Bad Programmer! - Premieres May, 2011
Ahhh the good old days... programmer back then precompiled their code in their heads and debugged by magic, now these days a "register" is were you put your cash.
Its the man, not the machine - Chuck Yeager
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As much as I grumble about the wiggle a mouse, VB-ization (i.e. dumbing down) of programming, for clearly that's what the Windows development environment has become in .NET, it's just scandalous how easy it is to do things that once required, well, you know, writing lots of code. Disgusted with the Windows 7 Task Scheduler and needing a quick & simple solution for my backups, I cranked out a quick winforms app that runs in the system tray and fires off my programs at the appointed time. Timers, starting processes, writing to the event log, minimizing to the system tray (with thanks to Elroy's Minimize window to system tray[^]), just drop dead easy to do. I didn't want to make a project out of this, I just wanted to quickly solve a problem. And it was actually painless to do. I gotta hand it to the VB crowd. Having lived through the C++ versus VB wars in the corporate world, I must concede that you absolutely kicked our collective tail. Not only did you completely take over the development world with .NET -- the Visual Basic programming language thinly disguised as something else -- you even made it socially acceptable to use. "Hey, I'm no VB programmer - I did this in C#!" Well done, my old adversaries. :)
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Watch Bad Programmer! - Premieres May, 2011
Having started with Cobol, Fortran and assembler, C# and .NET do make things a lot easier: you can focus on getting the job done, rather than re-inventing the wheel. How many times have you had to work with somebody else's personal library, with the bugs features, and differences that you have to learn? I think it is a good thing: .NET works, and removes a lot of cr@p from our workload! And C#? It's not bad. It does make it harder to make some mistakes than C++.
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together. Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."
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As much as I grumble about the wiggle a mouse, VB-ization (i.e. dumbing down) of programming, for clearly that's what the Windows development environment has become in .NET, it's just scandalous how easy it is to do things that once required, well, you know, writing lots of code. Disgusted with the Windows 7 Task Scheduler and needing a quick & simple solution for my backups, I cranked out a quick winforms app that runs in the system tray and fires off my programs at the appointed time. Timers, starting processes, writing to the event log, minimizing to the system tray (with thanks to Elroy's Minimize window to system tray[^]), just drop dead easy to do. I didn't want to make a project out of this, I just wanted to quickly solve a problem. And it was actually painless to do. I gotta hand it to the VB crowd. Having lived through the C++ versus VB wars in the corporate world, I must concede that you absolutely kicked our collective tail. Not only did you completely take over the development world with .NET -- the Visual Basic programming language thinly disguised as something else -- you even made it socially acceptable to use. "Hey, I'm no VB programmer - I did this in C#!" Well done, my old adversaries. :)
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Watch Bad Programmer! - Premieres May, 2011
If dumbing down means shorter, more expressive code, then yeah, I agree with you :)
Regards Senthil _____________________________ My Home Page |My Blog | My Articles | My Flickr | WinMacro
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As much as I grumble about the wiggle a mouse, VB-ization (i.e. dumbing down) of programming, for clearly that's what the Windows development environment has become in .NET, it's just scandalous how easy it is to do things that once required, well, you know, writing lots of code. Disgusted with the Windows 7 Task Scheduler and needing a quick & simple solution for my backups, I cranked out a quick winforms app that runs in the system tray and fires off my programs at the appointed time. Timers, starting processes, writing to the event log, minimizing to the system tray (with thanks to Elroy's Minimize window to system tray[^]), just drop dead easy to do. I didn't want to make a project out of this, I just wanted to quickly solve a problem. And it was actually painless to do. I gotta hand it to the VB crowd. Having lived through the C++ versus VB wars in the corporate world, I must concede that you absolutely kicked our collective tail. Not only did you completely take over the development world with .NET -- the Visual Basic programming language thinly disguised as something else -- you even made it socially acceptable to use. "Hey, I'm no VB programmer - I did this in C#!" Well done, my old adversaries. :)
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Watch Bad Programmer! - Premieres May, 2011
A true programmer codes in a language that gets his job done quickly. VB was always good for solving certain problems quickly and same is C# now.
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Having started with Cobol, Fortran and assembler, C# and .NET do make things a lot easier: you can focus on getting the job done, rather than re-inventing the wheel. How many times have you had to work with somebody else's personal library, with the bugs features, and differences that you have to learn? I think it is a good thing: .NET works, and removes a lot of cr@p from our workload! And C#? It's not bad. It does make it harder to make some mistakes than C++.
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together. Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."
OriginalGriff wrote:
.NET works, and removes a lot of cr@p from our workload! And C#? It's not bad. It does make it harder to make some mistakes than C++.
:thumbsup: /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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As much as I grumble about the wiggle a mouse, VB-ization (i.e. dumbing down) of programming, for clearly that's what the Windows development environment has become in .NET, it's just scandalous how easy it is to do things that once required, well, you know, writing lots of code. Disgusted with the Windows 7 Task Scheduler and needing a quick & simple solution for my backups, I cranked out a quick winforms app that runs in the system tray and fires off my programs at the appointed time. Timers, starting processes, writing to the event log, minimizing to the system tray (with thanks to Elroy's Minimize window to system tray[^]), just drop dead easy to do. I didn't want to make a project out of this, I just wanted to quickly solve a problem. And it was actually painless to do. I gotta hand it to the VB crowd. Having lived through the C++ versus VB wars in the corporate world, I must concede that you absolutely kicked our collective tail. Not only did you completely take over the development world with .NET -- the Visual Basic programming language thinly disguised as something else -- you even made it socially acceptable to use. "Hey, I'm no VB programmer - I did this in C#!" Well done, my old adversaries. :)
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Watch Bad Programmer! - Premieres May, 2011
Christopher Duncan wrote:
Not only did you completely take over the development world with .NET -- the Visual Basic Java programming language very thinly disguised as something else
VB.NET wasn't even in .net 1.0, MS coerced VB syntax onto the langauge paradigm they used for C# to create VB.net. This was done so as not to strand the devs who based their career on MS's VB technology, in much the same way J# was a misguided attempt to bring on board Java developers. Other than a few VB-targetted dlls (which can be imported in C# any way) it would be fairly easy to write a reasonable VB --> C# convertor. Like others I will tease VB.net devs, but at least I know it really is just a different syntax, the two are functionally equivalent. As for not needing to write a lot of code, the same could be said of C, from the perspective of an Assembly programmer, this is just the nature of progress. What really gets my goat is how much modern languages let you get away with without really having a clue what you are doing, leading to poor systems. There are plenty of devs out there who don't have a basic clue of how code actually gets executed or how it should be designed. One of my students (one of the good ones!) came to me wanting to write an application in objective-C, so I gave hime a brief intro to pointers and the need for garbage collection. He gave me the same look as the Linux wizard got from us when he did something magical when I was at uni. I hope he'll take the effort to pick it up. I realise your post was polemic, but I thought I'd share wiht the group:)
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
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A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^] -
Christopher Duncan wrote:
Not only did you completely take over the development world with .NET -- the Visual Basic Java programming language very thinly disguised as something else
VB.NET wasn't even in .net 1.0, MS coerced VB syntax onto the langauge paradigm they used for C# to create VB.net. This was done so as not to strand the devs who based their career on MS's VB technology, in much the same way J# was a misguided attempt to bring on board Java developers. Other than a few VB-targetted dlls (which can be imported in C# any way) it would be fairly easy to write a reasonable VB --> C# convertor. Like others I will tease VB.net devs, but at least I know it really is just a different syntax, the two are functionally equivalent. As for not needing to write a lot of code, the same could be said of C, from the perspective of an Assembly programmer, this is just the nature of progress. What really gets my goat is how much modern languages let you get away with without really having a clue what you are doing, leading to poor systems. There are plenty of devs out there who don't have a basic clue of how code actually gets executed or how it should be designed. One of my students (one of the good ones!) came to me wanting to write an application in objective-C, so I gave hime a brief intro to pointers and the need for garbage collection. He gave me the same look as the Linux wizard got from us when he did something magical when I was at uni. I hope he'll take the effort to pick it up. I realise your post was polemic, but I thought I'd share wiht the group:)
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
-Or-
A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^]Keith Barrow wrote:
VB.NET wasn't even in .net 1.0
:rolleyes: I was one of the betatesters for NET 1.0 in early 2001, and I was working in VB .NET. When version 1.0.3705.0 was released in February of 2002, Visual Studio .NET contained both VB and C#. J# was a separate install. Here's a quote excerpted from the NGWS beta 1 documentation (cpvb.chm, 6/22/00): "In order to move the Visual Basic language forward, it is necessary to introduce incompatibilities between the Visual Basic 7.0 language and previous versions of Visual Basic. Because of the potential impact of language incompatibilities on users, it is done so only when there is a clear justification." NGWS was the acronym for Next Generation Windows Services which was the working name for what became .NET".
In real engineering, you do what works in practice, even if the theory says it fails. In social engineering, you do what theory says works, even if it fails in practice.
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As much as I grumble about the wiggle a mouse, VB-ization (i.e. dumbing down) of programming, for clearly that's what the Windows development environment has become in .NET, it's just scandalous how easy it is to do things that once required, well, you know, writing lots of code. Disgusted with the Windows 7 Task Scheduler and needing a quick & simple solution for my backups, I cranked out a quick winforms app that runs in the system tray and fires off my programs at the appointed time. Timers, starting processes, writing to the event log, minimizing to the system tray (with thanks to Elroy's Minimize window to system tray[^]), just drop dead easy to do. I didn't want to make a project out of this, I just wanted to quickly solve a problem. And it was actually painless to do. I gotta hand it to the VB crowd. Having lived through the C++ versus VB wars in the corporate world, I must concede that you absolutely kicked our collective tail. Not only did you completely take over the development world with .NET -- the Visual Basic programming language thinly disguised as something else -- you even made it socially acceptable to use. "Hey, I'm no VB programmer - I did this in C#!" Well done, my old adversaries. :)
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Watch Bad Programmer! - Premieres May, 2011
it's just scandalous how easy it is to do things that once required, well, you know, writing lots of code.Like you can buy your vegetables and french fries cleaned and pre-cut in plastic tray or a can. Everyone prefers fresh ingredients, but that doesn't change the fact that Burger King is able to feed more customers at a lower price than any Michelin-star restaurant.
