Try To Excel, and Get Hampered by Mediocrity
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
The solution is to replace the functionality of the macros in the Access database with
Given the post subject, I really thought you were going to say that you were tasked to replace Access with Excel. Wouldn't be unheard of. :doh: Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
Wouldn't be unheard of.
Not entirely, Excel 2010 has way more data analytic features available than Access when connected to SSAS. This past week I just put an end to a project the users wanted that surrounded an access db. Doing it in Excel meant they could create it all them selves. :)
Common sense is admitting there is cause and effect and that you can exert some control over what you understand.
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Situation: Our users have been using an Access database to analyze financial data. For various reasons unimportant to this rant, we have to stop allowing them to do this. The solution is to replace the functionality of the macros in the Access database with one or more asp.net web pages. I was tasked with this implementation. Existing "Code" So the menu structure looks something like this:
Summary Report
Special Report 1
Special Report 2
Suspense Reports
Sorted by SSAN
0-30 days
31-60 days
...
More than 150 days
Sorted by Suspense Dates
0-30 days
31-60 days
...
More than 150 daysSince we can't display the ssan with any other private info (like the name of the person), I had to add "Sorted by Name" as an option for the user under "suspense reports" in my solution. I started with the suspense reports because I figured that would get the largest number of reports out of the way, right up front. My solution was to provide a single menu item ("Suspense Reports"), and a single web page with the following controls: 0) combo box for a distribution code 1) combo box for the site name 2) combo box for the "column info" (name or ssan) 3) combo box for the sort mode (by the "selected info column" or "suspense date") 4) combo box for the suspense range (0-30 days, etc) 5) a "Go" button Once the user got to the page, he could select any combination of combo box settings, and click the Go button, without ever leaving the page. Simple, and efficient in my humbo opinion. Once I was finished (yesterday at around 2pm), I called the customer in to look at it. As you might guess, he wasn't pleased - at all. He wanted to know "what the hell 'selected info column' means", and he raised hell because he didn't want to train the users- he wanted to give them what they had before so they wouldn't need to be trained. Now, changing the code wasn't hard at all, and I'm already done with it, but now we have a chain of menu items five levels deep that the user has to navigate just to select a different range of days and/or sort mode and/or info (ssan/name). Mediocrity (not to mention a massive fail o the part of the customer).
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimmingJohn Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
he raised hell because he didn't want to train the users- he wanted to give them what they had before so they wouldn't need to be trained.
Training = Union negotiation of a new contract
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Situation: Our users have been using an Access database to analyze financial data. For various reasons unimportant to this rant, we have to stop allowing them to do this. The solution is to replace the functionality of the macros in the Access database with one or more asp.net web pages. I was tasked with this implementation. Existing "Code" So the menu structure looks something like this:
Summary Report
Special Report 1
Special Report 2
Suspense Reports
Sorted by SSAN
0-30 days
31-60 days
...
More than 150 days
Sorted by Suspense Dates
0-30 days
31-60 days
...
More than 150 daysSince we can't display the ssan with any other private info (like the name of the person), I had to add "Sorted by Name" as an option for the user under "suspense reports" in my solution. I started with the suspense reports because I figured that would get the largest number of reports out of the way, right up front. My solution was to provide a single menu item ("Suspense Reports"), and a single web page with the following controls: 0) combo box for a distribution code 1) combo box for the site name 2) combo box for the "column info" (name or ssan) 3) combo box for the sort mode (by the "selected info column" or "suspense date") 4) combo box for the suspense range (0-30 days, etc) 5) a "Go" button Once the user got to the page, he could select any combination of combo box settings, and click the Go button, without ever leaving the page. Simple, and efficient in my humbo opinion. Once I was finished (yesterday at around 2pm), I called the customer in to look at it. As you might guess, he wasn't pleased - at all. He wanted to know "what the hell 'selected info column' means", and he raised hell because he didn't want to train the users- he wanted to give them what they had before so they wouldn't need to be trained. Now, changing the code wasn't hard at all, and I'm already done with it, but now we have a chain of menu items five levels deep that the user has to navigate just to select a different range of days and/or sort mode and/or info (ssan/name). Mediocrity (not to mention a massive fail o the part of the customer).
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimmingIt's probably too late now but why don't you change the content of the 'sort mode' combo box dynamically? For example if the user has selected 'name' in the 'column info' combo box then the 'sort mode' one should show 'name' and 'suspense date'. In the same way if the user has selected 'ssan' in the 'column info' combo box then the 'sort mode' one should show 'ssan' and 'suspense date'. It really depends on the users but it looks like, from what you're saying, that they are not that computer litterate so you should try to avoid make them think. Putting 'selected info column' in the 'sort mode' combo box make them think because they have to link the 2 combo boxes together in their mind. I know it's trivial but it looks like it's not for them. With the above solution they don't need to link the combo boxes together they just have to select an item in each of them which is probably the behaviour that average users expect.
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Situation: Our users have been using an Access database to analyze financial data. For various reasons unimportant to this rant, we have to stop allowing them to do this. The solution is to replace the functionality of the macros in the Access database with one or more asp.net web pages. I was tasked with this implementation. Existing "Code" So the menu structure looks something like this:
Summary Report
Special Report 1
Special Report 2
Suspense Reports
Sorted by SSAN
0-30 days
31-60 days
...
More than 150 days
Sorted by Suspense Dates
0-30 days
31-60 days
...
More than 150 daysSince we can't display the ssan with any other private info (like the name of the person), I had to add "Sorted by Name" as an option for the user under "suspense reports" in my solution. I started with the suspense reports because I figured that would get the largest number of reports out of the way, right up front. My solution was to provide a single menu item ("Suspense Reports"), and a single web page with the following controls: 0) combo box for a distribution code 1) combo box for the site name 2) combo box for the "column info" (name or ssan) 3) combo box for the sort mode (by the "selected info column" or "suspense date") 4) combo box for the suspense range (0-30 days, etc) 5) a "Go" button Once the user got to the page, he could select any combination of combo box settings, and click the Go button, without ever leaving the page. Simple, and efficient in my humbo opinion. Once I was finished (yesterday at around 2pm), I called the customer in to look at it. As you might guess, he wasn't pleased - at all. He wanted to know "what the hell 'selected info column' means", and he raised hell because he didn't want to train the users- he wanted to give them what they had before so they wouldn't need to be trained. Now, changing the code wasn't hard at all, and I'm already done with it, but now we have a chain of menu items five levels deep that the user has to navigate just to select a different range of days and/or sort mode and/or info (ssan/name). Mediocrity (not to mention a massive fail o the part of the customer).
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimmingSince you have anyway done the new interface, you might as well keep it under a link that says "simpler interface" and let the adventurous ones try it out. Who knows some day it might replace the older one...
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No, that was never brought up, but over the course of me working on the task, the customer was brought in several times so he could see what I was doing. Not one time did he say, "That's not what I had in mind". Nope. Instead, he waited until I was done and essentially delivering that chunk of the task.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997What usually chaps my a$$ is when the customer asks for something, you deliver it and then they ask for a change, you deliver it, (iterate a few more times) and then I say, "Why didn't you ask for all this in the beginning, it would have been much easier to code and done faster?" Invariably the answer is either 1) I didn't know you could do that, 2) I didn't know what I wanted until I saw it, or 3) the combination of 1 & 2. I try to begin design meetings with "Tell me your wildest fantasies, we'll no doubt scale it back to what we can do or what can be done in the initial time frame, but it helps to know where you are going. To use an architectural analogy, 'Don't tell me you want a wet bar on the other side of the room after we've laid the concrete slab floor.' "
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11
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Situation: Our users have been using an Access database to analyze financial data. For various reasons unimportant to this rant, we have to stop allowing them to do this. The solution is to replace the functionality of the macros in the Access database with one or more asp.net web pages. I was tasked with this implementation. Existing "Code" So the menu structure looks something like this:
Summary Report
Special Report 1
Special Report 2
Suspense Reports
Sorted by SSAN
0-30 days
31-60 days
...
More than 150 days
Sorted by Suspense Dates
0-30 days
31-60 days
...
More than 150 daysSince we can't display the ssan with any other private info (like the name of the person), I had to add "Sorted by Name" as an option for the user under "suspense reports" in my solution. I started with the suspense reports because I figured that would get the largest number of reports out of the way, right up front. My solution was to provide a single menu item ("Suspense Reports"), and a single web page with the following controls: 0) combo box for a distribution code 1) combo box for the site name 2) combo box for the "column info" (name or ssan) 3) combo box for the sort mode (by the "selected info column" or "suspense date") 4) combo box for the suspense range (0-30 days, etc) 5) a "Go" button Once the user got to the page, he could select any combination of combo box settings, and click the Go button, without ever leaving the page. Simple, and efficient in my humbo opinion. Once I was finished (yesterday at around 2pm), I called the customer in to look at it. As you might guess, he wasn't pleased - at all. He wanted to know "what the hell 'selected info column' means", and he raised hell because he didn't want to train the users- he wanted to give them what they had before so they wouldn't need to be trained. Now, changing the code wasn't hard at all, and I'm already done with it, but now we have a chain of menu items five levels deep that the user has to navigate just to select a different range of days and/or sort mode and/or info (ssan/name). Mediocrity (not to mention a massive fail o the part of the customer).
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimmingI feel your pain. A customer of my company has a bunch of old ColdFusion webpages to display some GIS information based on MapGuide 6.5 with frames and blue text on a blue background and all that stuff you saw on the web in the 90s. They now want to upgrade the underlying technology to MapGuide 2012, which has an AJAX viewer and an even more fancy "Fusion" viewer (based on JavaScript). This is all built in, is tweakable and very user friendly. But ofcourse they don't want the website to change at all, so it needs to be remade in ASP.NET, but the result has to be the same (ugly) website and it will cost a huge amount of money to convert the entire website (compared to simply going for the built-in viewer). I don't understand all this. The cost of training people to work with something new is so low compared to being stuck with old crap with less productivity every day..
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Easy man, put down the guns slowly...that's it... Are you the one using the system everyday? No? Fine then, if customer asks for BS you give him BS, that's it....ask the people who use farsebook :laugh:
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
"Suspense Reports",
They belong to the "Hitchcock" table, isn't it? :)
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--either way, you are right." — Henry Ford
For what its worth... Often, not always but often (especially with less tech savvy users who aren't into learning the newest thing in technology) users would prefer the same old way even if its slower because its what they know and are use to and its what works for them. Better yet it actually can be faster then the new way because the user can in a way auto-pilot thru it because they are so used to working with it as they do and so the newer faster method turns out to be much slower; at least initially. This however is a tough one and while the customer is the customer it would benefit them to be a little less 'easily upset' and a lot more inquisitive about a change they don't understand.
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No, that was never brought up, but over the course of me working on the task, the customer was brought in several times so he could see what I was doing. Not one time did he say, "That's not what I had in mind". Nope. Instead, he waited until I was done and essentially delivering that chunk of the task.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997It can save time to show the customer a quick mock-up of the GUI, before you've invested time in coding the logic. That way changes aren't that costly, and the customer should have no surprises when they see the final product.
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What usually chaps my a$$ is when the customer asks for something, you deliver it and then they ask for a change, you deliver it, (iterate a few more times) and then I say, "Why didn't you ask for all this in the beginning, it would have been much easier to code and done faster?" Invariably the answer is either 1) I didn't know you could do that, 2) I didn't know what I wanted until I saw it, or 3) the combination of 1 & 2. I try to begin design meetings with "Tell me your wildest fantasies, we'll no doubt scale it back to what we can do or what can be done in the initial time frame, but it helps to know where you are going. To use an architectural analogy, 'Don't tell me you want a wet bar on the other side of the room after we've laid the concrete slab floor.' "
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11
It seems to me that you should go through the SDLC (Systems Development Life Cycle) methodology before you even get to a keyboard to start programming. All the problems that you elude to would have been sorted by following the methodology. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_Development_Life_Cycle[^] I wouldn't touch a job without first using this methodology.
I am the Breeg, goo goo g'joob Aici zace un om despre care nu sestie prea mult
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Situation: Our users have been using an Access database to analyze financial data. For various reasons unimportant to this rant, we have to stop allowing them to do this. The solution is to replace the functionality of the macros in the Access database with one or more asp.net web pages. I was tasked with this implementation. Existing "Code" So the menu structure looks something like this:
Summary Report
Special Report 1
Special Report 2
Suspense Reports
Sorted by SSAN
0-30 days
31-60 days
...
More than 150 days
Sorted by Suspense Dates
0-30 days
31-60 days
...
More than 150 daysSince we can't display the ssan with any other private info (like the name of the person), I had to add "Sorted by Name" as an option for the user under "suspense reports" in my solution. I started with the suspense reports because I figured that would get the largest number of reports out of the way, right up front. My solution was to provide a single menu item ("Suspense Reports"), and a single web page with the following controls: 0) combo box for a distribution code 1) combo box for the site name 2) combo box for the "column info" (name or ssan) 3) combo box for the sort mode (by the "selected info column" or "suspense date") 4) combo box for the suspense range (0-30 days, etc) 5) a "Go" button Once the user got to the page, he could select any combination of combo box settings, and click the Go button, without ever leaving the page. Simple, and efficient in my humbo opinion. Once I was finished (yesterday at around 2pm), I called the customer in to look at it. As you might guess, he wasn't pleased - at all. He wanted to know "what the hell 'selected info column' means", and he raised hell because he didn't want to train the users- he wanted to give them what they had before so they wouldn't need to be trained. Now, changing the code wasn't hard at all, and I'm already done with it, but now we have a chain of menu items five levels deep that the user has to navigate just to select a different range of days and/or sort mode and/or info (ssan/name). Mediocrity (not to mention a massive fail o the part of the customer).
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming5 combo boxes before you can see a report? I would prefer nested menus. Am I missing something here?
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It seems to me that you should go through the SDLC (Systems Development Life Cycle) methodology before you even get to a keyboard to start programming. All the problems that you elude to would have been sorted by following the methodology. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_Development_Life_Cycle[^] I wouldn't touch a job without first using this methodology.
I am the Breeg, goo goo g'joob Aici zace un om despre care nu sestie prea mult
Hahahahaha! I agree wholeheartedly with your suggestion. My "lusers" don't. The last company I worked for "witch hunting" was their favorite sport. Nobody, but nobody, was going to put their name to paper to sign off on any step of a project. Makes the guilty parties too easy to find. Better to go with "he said/she said" defense. Besides, they perceive themselves as the people with the brains that must be carried in wheelbarrows and I'm just the whining code monkey, they're the ones telling me what they want done. My current employers operate out of a separate office, which is great for getting work done, but the perception again, is that the smart people work at their office. Many a request for requirements disappeared into a black hole. They assume all programmers are interchangeable, we intimately know all details of each other's projects, and they can communicate their needs through telepathy. Sitting down with them to gather requirements results in a paper that they later deny as a misunderstanding when you present it to them when they start complaining about how the project was delivered. You can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11