New F1 engines in 2014 (Americans please avert your eyes)
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I've heard yesterday during the qualifying session that starting in 2014, F1 engines will be 6-cylinder turbo. Now, while I have no doubt that such engines will be at least as powerful as the current ones, or they're going to be in a couple of seasons (like it happened with current V8s), I don't see the reason to change them again. If it's for cost reduction, then forcing all constructors to re-design engines from scratch isn't helping. Quite the opposite actually. And, turbo engines are on average more expensive and consume more fuel... If it's just for giving a shuffle to the cards, then perhaps that is a good idea - a batter one than, for example, forcing teams to use both types of tyres during the race. Overall, I think Jean Todt is not doing a good job, but perhaps we should welcome this change. Any opinion? Anyway, although I doubt today's race will be much interesting, I think the circuit looks like a very good one (for some reason I like city circuits).
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe, but not a personality. [Charlie Brooker] ScrewTurn Wiki, Software Localization Tools & Services and My Blog
There's no such thing as "cost reduction" in pro racing - of any genre.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
I've heard yesterday during the qualifying session that starting in 2014, F1 engines will be 6-cylinder turbo. Now, while I have no doubt that such engines will be at least as powerful as the current ones, or they're going to be in a couple of seasons (like it happened with current V8s), I don't see the reason to change them again. If it's for cost reduction, then forcing all constructors to re-design engines from scratch isn't helping. Quite the opposite actually. And, turbo engines are on average more expensive and consume more fuel... If it's just for giving a shuffle to the cards, then perhaps that is a good idea - a batter one than, for example, forcing teams to use both types of tyres during the race. Overall, I think Jean Todt is not doing a good job, but perhaps we should welcome this change. Any opinion? Anyway, although I doubt today's race will be much interesting, I think the circuit looks like a very good one (for some reason I like city circuits).
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe, but not a personality. [Charlie Brooker] ScrewTurn Wiki, Software Localization Tools & Services and My Blog
They keep trying to make it more spectacular/enjoyable by adding more and more rules :omg: The more rules you have the less spectacular it will be. If you think about it putting a V6 should change a little the order. At least for 1-2 seasons. For instance one would say that Renault will have an advantage cause it already has a formula that runs on V6 Renault engines. But then again these engines are far less aggressive(from a RPM and not only point of view) then the ones that will power the F1 cars. As for today race, yeah I don't think much will happen, but we'll see.
All the best, Dan
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Ban refuelling and tire stops - except when it gets very wet / dries out completely (decided by a judging panel, not the teams) Make them overtake on the track, and carry enough fuel (or design efficient enough engines) to last the race distance. Might make it more watchable than the usual parade...
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together. Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."
OriginalGriff wrote:
Ban refuelling
As has already been said. That's how it is now.
OriginalGriff wrote:
and tire stops
Wrong. IMO. Take the restrictions away regarding the number of tyres (USians please note the correct spelling there. :) ) allowed during the race but keep them for practice/qualifying. That way you will have the 'Steady Eddies' like Jenson v the 'Sideways Sams' a'la Lewis. Two of the most exiting races I've ever seen were Jenson's amazing win in Canada, two weeks ago - 6 stops, and many, many years ago (it could have been 35 yearsh .......) it was either Nelson Piquet or Keke Rosberg who stopped 5 times to everyone else's once because he was tearing up the track and his tyres whilst overtaking all-comers. If memory serves he only managed 2nd, but what a race. The biggest barrier to overtaking is the turbulent air caused by the wings. Cut the size of those to 1 quarter their current size. That' [Edit] Damned focus stealing sassen frassen applications!:mad: ....continued s the way to do it. [/Edit]
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
modified on Sunday, June 26, 2011 8:33 AM
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I've heard yesterday during the qualifying session that starting in 2014, F1 engines will be 6-cylinder turbo. Now, while I have no doubt that such engines will be at least as powerful as the current ones, or they're going to be in a couple of seasons (like it happened with current V8s), I don't see the reason to change them again. If it's for cost reduction, then forcing all constructors to re-design engines from scratch isn't helping. Quite the opposite actually. And, turbo engines are on average more expensive and consume more fuel... If it's just for giving a shuffle to the cards, then perhaps that is a good idea - a batter one than, for example, forcing teams to use both types of tyres during the race. Overall, I think Jean Todt is not doing a good job, but perhaps we should welcome this change. Any opinion? Anyway, although I doubt today's race will be much interesting, I think the circuit looks like a very good one (for some reason I like city circuits).
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe, but not a personality. [Charlie Brooker] ScrewTurn Wiki, Software Localization Tools & Services and My Blog
The reason is simple. They need to make the cars more generic so as to stop one team running off with the title. Look at Red Bull, so far ahead that the title may well be over already. But tinkering and changing the rules, it attempts to level the field technically, allowing the skill of the driver to be a bigger proportion of the mix.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
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I've heard yesterday during the qualifying session that starting in 2014, F1 engines will be 6-cylinder turbo. Now, while I have no doubt that such engines will be at least as powerful as the current ones, or they're going to be in a couple of seasons (like it happened with current V8s), I don't see the reason to change them again. If it's for cost reduction, then forcing all constructors to re-design engines from scratch isn't helping. Quite the opposite actually. And, turbo engines are on average more expensive and consume more fuel... If it's just for giving a shuffle to the cards, then perhaps that is a good idea - a batter one than, for example, forcing teams to use both types of tyres during the race. Overall, I think Jean Todt is not doing a good job, but perhaps we should welcome this change. Any opinion? Anyway, although I doubt today's race will be much interesting, I think the circuit looks like a very good one (for some reason I like city circuits).
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe, but not a personality. [Charlie Brooker] ScrewTurn Wiki, Software Localization Tools & Services and My Blog
Baah, Sick of it all. throw out most of the rules and just have the following: Vehicle must get from point A (start) to point B (finish): 1. As fast as possible. 2. Without killing anyone, destroying any property or interfering with any other teams work. 3. To qualify, the vehicle must be run exactly as it would be at the start of the race. Same amount of whatever fuel it uses, same driver, same distribution of weight etc. And I'd probably add a spending limit to stop the idiots who insist on bankrupting themselves (or others) to 'win at all cost', i.e they take that expression literally. That's it - why would you need any more rules than that?
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
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I've heard yesterday during the qualifying session that starting in 2014, F1 engines will be 6-cylinder turbo. Now, while I have no doubt that such engines will be at least as powerful as the current ones, or they're going to be in a couple of seasons (like it happened with current V8s), I don't see the reason to change them again. If it's for cost reduction, then forcing all constructors to re-design engines from scratch isn't helping. Quite the opposite actually. And, turbo engines are on average more expensive and consume more fuel... If it's just for giving a shuffle to the cards, then perhaps that is a good idea - a batter one than, for example, forcing teams to use both types of tyres during the race. Overall, I think Jean Todt is not doing a good job, but perhaps we should welcome this change. Any opinion? Anyway, although I doubt today's race will be much interesting, I think the circuit looks like a very good one (for some reason I like city circuits).
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe, but not a personality. [Charlie Brooker] ScrewTurn Wiki, Software Localization Tools & Services and My Blog
It should be about skill, not technology. IMO, they should ban/take away every every technological advantage that could cause an imbalance, and let 'em fight it out like Celtic charioteers.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I've heard yesterday during the qualifying session that starting in 2014, F1 engines will be 6-cylinder turbo. Now, while I have no doubt that such engines will be at least as powerful as the current ones, or they're going to be in a couple of seasons (like it happened with current V8s), I don't see the reason to change them again. If it's for cost reduction, then forcing all constructors to re-design engines from scratch isn't helping. Quite the opposite actually. And, turbo engines are on average more expensive and consume more fuel... If it's just for giving a shuffle to the cards, then perhaps that is a good idea - a batter one than, for example, forcing teams to use both types of tyres during the race. Overall, I think Jean Todt is not doing a good job, but perhaps we should welcome this change. Any opinion? Anyway, although I doubt today's race will be much interesting, I think the circuit looks like a very good one (for some reason I like city circuits).
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe, but not a personality. [Charlie Brooker] ScrewTurn Wiki, Software Localization Tools & Services and My Blog
How about - the amount of fuel they use deducts from the time used. Eg timespent winning - amount of fuel. Meaning a fast / fuel heavy might not win because a slower / fuel light driver beat him. Oh and using renewable fuel should have a positive influence on time spent.
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Ban refuelling and tire stops - except when it gets very wet / dries out completely (decided by a judging panel, not the teams) Make them overtake on the track, and carry enough fuel (or design efficient enough engines) to last the race distance. Might make it more watchable than the usual parade...
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together. Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."
OriginalGriff wrote:
Ban refuelling and tire stops - except when it gets very wet / dries out completely (decided by a judging panel, not the teams)
Refuelling has been banned for two years now, as for tyres (assuming you mean the round black things and not a stop for a rest) with two different compounds that HAVE to be used during the race leads to the oppotunity for teams to try something different from each other, without these you tend for the positions to be sorted early and for a boring race (yesterday showed this can happen even with tyre stops)
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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Baah, Sick of it all. throw out most of the rules and just have the following: Vehicle must get from point A (start) to point B (finish): 1. As fast as possible. 2. Without killing anyone, destroying any property or interfering with any other teams work. 3. To qualify, the vehicle must be run exactly as it would be at the start of the race. Same amount of whatever fuel it uses, same driver, same distribution of weight etc. And I'd probably add a spending limit to stop the idiots who insist on bankrupting themselves (or others) to 'win at all cost', i.e they take that expression literally. That's it - why would you need any more rules than that?
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
1, define as fast as possible? it is fact that an F1 car without restrictions could lap faster that is medically safe for the driver, you would need to equip the driver with a G suit and move the fans back 1/2 mile to ensure safety 2, here you have a few reasons why different rules were brought in, most F1 rules are there for safety, most others are there to reduce speed to a "safe" (a very relative term) level, a majority of the rest are there to try and prevent said interferance, so nearly all F1 rules are there to provide exactly what you are saying. 3, present rules require that other than changes for safety (ie damanged parts) the cars have to start as per qaulifying the exceptions to this rule were a, engine maps, a hotter map could be used - this has been changed so that now maps in qualifying have to e the same as race b, tyres - if you dont get to Q3 you can choose which tyres to start on c, fuel, now it used to be that you had to carry race fuel, however since there is no refuelling now why would this be needed? all you do is drag extra weight round not very green and for NO difference in result so sensibly dropped last year 4, spending limits - this was brought in last year as well so basically it is being run to your rules now, the problem is the details, F1 is so competative that fractions of a millimeter can give big results, so unless you specify exactly where the limits are you allow the teams to excced them, so keeping speed down to an exceptable level is a goal of the FIA, to find a way of increasing the speed of the car by finding loopholes in the rules is a goal of the teams
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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The reason is simple. They need to make the cars more generic so as to stop one team running off with the title. Look at Red Bull, so far ahead that the title may well be over already. But tinkering and changing the rules, it attempts to level the field technically, allowing the skill of the driver to be a bigger proportion of the mix.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
why not just get rid of F1 and revert to GP2 as they are spec cars, oh and for some reason certain teams still end up top of the pile! F1 is a team sport, a big part of it has always been designing the car (it is part of the rules that each team must design and build its own car) there is a big argument as to whether it is changing the rules or just clarifying them.
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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How about - the amount of fuel they use deducts from the time used. Eg timespent winning - amount of fuel. Meaning a fast / fuel heavy might not win because a slower / fuel light driver beat him. Oh and using renewable fuel should have a positive influence on time spent.
oh great so you wouldnt know the winner until hours after the race - thats going to work! they do something similar anyway, no car is fueled to race flat out for all the race as the weight disadvantage at the start of the race is too great, so they all short fuel and then plan fuel saving laps within the race
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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1, define as fast as possible? it is fact that an F1 car without restrictions could lap faster that is medically safe for the driver, you would need to equip the driver with a G suit and move the fans back 1/2 mile to ensure safety 2, here you have a few reasons why different rules were brought in, most F1 rules are there for safety, most others are there to reduce speed to a "safe" (a very relative term) level, a majority of the rest are there to try and prevent said interferance, so nearly all F1 rules are there to provide exactly what you are saying. 3, present rules require that other than changes for safety (ie damanged parts) the cars have to start as per qaulifying the exceptions to this rule were a, engine maps, a hotter map could be used - this has been changed so that now maps in qualifying have to e the same as race b, tyres - if you dont get to Q3 you can choose which tyres to start on c, fuel, now it used to be that you had to carry race fuel, however since there is no refuelling now why would this be needed? all you do is drag extra weight round not very green and for NO difference in result so sensibly dropped last year 4, spending limits - this was brought in last year as well so basically it is being run to your rules now, the problem is the details, F1 is so competative that fractions of a millimeter can give big results, so unless you specify exactly where the limits are you allow the teams to excced them, so keeping speed down to an exceptable level is a goal of the FIA, to find a way of increasing the speed of the car by finding loopholes in the rules is a goal of the teams
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
Bergholt Stuttley Johnson wrote:
1, define as fast as possible? it is fact that an F1 car without restrictions could lap faster that is medically safe for the driver, you would need to equip the driver with a G suit and move the fans back 1/2 mile to ensure safety
Meh. Upgrade the crash barriers enough to protect against higher speed hits and then buy the g suits to go with faster cars. Adding permanent rules to artificially limit speed is antithetical to the concept of speed racing. :rolleyes:
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
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Bergholt Stuttley Johnson wrote:
1, define as fast as possible? it is fact that an F1 car without restrictions could lap faster that is medically safe for the driver, you would need to equip the driver with a G suit and move the fans back 1/2 mile to ensure safety
Meh. Upgrade the crash barriers enough to protect against higher speed hits and then buy the g suits to go with faster cars. Adding permanent rules to artificially limit speed is antithetical to the concept of speed racing. :rolleyes:
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
yeah like the rules have never been changed to slow cars down thats why we can use gound effect cars with large wings attached directly to the axles with V16 twin turbo engines reving to 22000 with ultra wide tyres and runing 11 star petrol. the rules have ALWAYS limited performance right back when they brought in 1.5lt max engine size to slow the merc/autounion monsters as for barriers, most circuits have limited space (unless you run them all in a dessert etc) so the amount of runnoff is limted so you need to limit the cars to a speed that can be negated in the availiable space without killing the driver in the process, remember that unlike Indy/Nascar the high speed often result in frontal impacts with barriers - not good. part of F1 for those that know is the development to build the fastest within the rules, redbull have done this, however if they use grey areas to achieve this (which they all do) then they all half expect the development to be banned. as for the outright speed, does this actual make for better racing? once cars get up towards 200mph it is impossible to tell if they are doing 180 or 220 once they are all doing this speed. so closer racing at 180 would be a better than cars doing 220 in a line (in whic case you would have do do things like having lost of slower cars on a short course to disrupt them or throwing yellow flags to close thinigs up)
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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I've heard yesterday during the qualifying session that starting in 2014, F1 engines will be 6-cylinder turbo. Now, while I have no doubt that such engines will be at least as powerful as the current ones, or they're going to be in a couple of seasons (like it happened with current V8s), I don't see the reason to change them again. If it's for cost reduction, then forcing all constructors to re-design engines from scratch isn't helping. Quite the opposite actually. And, turbo engines are on average more expensive and consume more fuel... If it's just for giving a shuffle to the cards, then perhaps that is a good idea - a batter one than, for example, forcing teams to use both types of tyres during the race. Overall, I think Jean Todt is not doing a good job, but perhaps we should welcome this change. Any opinion? Anyway, although I doubt today's race will be much interesting, I think the circuit looks like a very good one (for some reason I like city circuits).
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe, but not a personality. [Charlie Brooker] ScrewTurn Wiki, Software Localization Tools & Services and My Blog
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I've heard yesterday during the qualifying session that starting in 2014, F1 engines will be 6-cylinder turbo. Now, while I have no doubt that such engines will be at least as powerful as the current ones, or they're going to be in a couple of seasons (like it happened with current V8s), I don't see the reason to change them again. If it's for cost reduction, then forcing all constructors to re-design engines from scratch isn't helping. Quite the opposite actually. And, turbo engines are on average more expensive and consume more fuel... If it's just for giving a shuffle to the cards, then perhaps that is a good idea - a batter one than, for example, forcing teams to use both types of tyres during the race. Overall, I think Jean Todt is not doing a good job, but perhaps we should welcome this change. Any opinion? Anyway, although I doubt today's race will be much interesting, I think the circuit looks like a very good one (for some reason I like city circuits).
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe, but not a personality. [Charlie Brooker] ScrewTurn Wiki, Software Localization Tools & Services and My Blog
6-cylinders are better than the 4-cylinder idea that was in effect. I say go with displacement and horsepower and let teams innovate. Were it up to me, I'd also cut way down on aero effects. As for Valencia; it's a horrible race and I don't see how it could be improved. My dream is to see F1 in Surfer's Paradise. BTW, one of my favorite races for open wheel was Cleveland Airport. F1 is too arrogant to race without their 5-star hotel garages, but it would be spectacular. (How about an unlimited racing series? As long as the car fits in a box of a certain size, has at least four wheels, has no more than a specific engine displacement (or measured horsepower or some such limiting factor on engine/motor), produces no more than a set amount of downforce and has some limits on the engine computer, it can race. Want to try diesel? Go for it. Electric. Ethanol. Close the wheels up? Why not?)
