Does the Internet make software developers lazy?
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Being Lazy makes programmers lazy. Does intellisense make a developer lazy? No, it makes them more productive. IMO, development shouldn't be about learning massses of stuff, for one thing we tend to be process-driven people. What is lazy is plain old copy and paste programming (just realised this has the cool acronym POCAP, prehaps I should add an "outrageous" after the "old" :)), where the dev never understands what they have done*. Even if you learn stuff in the "short term" you'd be surprised how much percolates through to the long-term. I'm doing lots of web setup stuff now I haven't touched in years, I'm googling lots, but my previous experience has made it easier. * Yes such people do exist. We had a guy in for interview at my last place of work who managed to coble together soemthing for a developer test from stuff he'd copied from the Internet. We went through the browser history and found every line of code, he couldn't explain how his code worked. He worked in development at a Building Society for 4 years.
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
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A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^]Plain Old Copy Repeatedly And Paste programming.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
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What I mean is, does access to the Internet make you lazy when you're coding. Let me qualify this: when working on a routine that you're not sure how to code correctly, do you Google for example code instead of reading the necessary/relevant documentation? For example, I am currently working on a short article to post on Codeproject concerning the backing up and restoration of Windows 7 activation files. Because these files have limited user access, the program needs to change access permissions to backup and restore. So, rather than reading all of the necessary MSDN documentation, I Google for code samples. Not the correct way I know, but hey, it gets the job done. Or does it? Maybe in the short term, but in the long term I've learnt nothing. So the next time I need to code any access permission changes, I'm still no nearer to knowing the correct way. I suppose what I'm wondering is, has the Internet made me lazy?
As I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I fear no evil, for I am the God of Death.... and this is my valley. Aici zace un om despre care nu sestie prea mult
For serious developers, the internet doesn't make you lazy, it's simply another tool/resource. I may look for code samples online, but only as a guide, and I never use it unless I understand it. As someone else mentioned, why spend an hour deriving a solution when 10 minutes of Googling can find an example that you can read through an realize "Yeah, that's exactly what I want to do" or "What was this guy smoking? I'll figure it out myself." :) In my case, I always access MSDN documentation online rather than using local help, since local seems to take 5 minutes to open the first time, but opening in a web browser is relatively instant. Plus, any updates to documentation are always online, and not necessarily available for download. I'm not sure, but I doubt MS ships updated local documentation for a VS service pack - they probably assume you have internet access and will just get to the latest documentation online anyway. Dybs
The shout of progress is not "Eureka!" it's "Strange... that's not what i expected". - peterchen
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What I mean is, does access to the Internet make you lazy when you're coding. Let me qualify this: when working on a routine that you're not sure how to code correctly, do you Google for example code instead of reading the necessary/relevant documentation? For example, I am currently working on a short article to post on Codeproject concerning the backing up and restoration of Windows 7 activation files. Because these files have limited user access, the program needs to change access permissions to backup and restore. So, rather than reading all of the necessary MSDN documentation, I Google for code samples. Not the correct way I know, but hey, it gets the job done. Or does it? Maybe in the short term, but in the long term I've learnt nothing. So the next time I need to code any access permission changes, I'm still no nearer to knowing the correct way. I suppose what I'm wondering is, has the Internet made me lazy?
As I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I fear no evil, for I am the God of Death.... and this is my valley. Aici zace un om despre care nu sestie prea mult
I recently saw an article about this but I can't be arsed to search for it!
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
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As long as you document your references, I think you're okay. Plagerism is worse than laziness.
m.bergman
-- For Bruce Schneier, quanta only have one state : afraid.
Michael Bergman wrote:
document your references
Definitely a good idea. If anything, it's useful to link back to the original source when there's an article describing the code for a complicated snippet - that way you have the author's "documentation" and explanation of why the code works (assuming the author knows what they're talking about :))
The shout of progress is not "Eureka!" it's "Strange... that's not what i expected". - peterchen
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What I mean is, does access to the Internet make you lazy when you're coding. Let me qualify this: when working on a routine that you're not sure how to code correctly, do you Google for example code instead of reading the necessary/relevant documentation? For example, I am currently working on a short article to post on Codeproject concerning the backing up and restoration of Windows 7 activation files. Because these files have limited user access, the program needs to change access permissions to backup and restore. So, rather than reading all of the necessary MSDN documentation, I Google for code samples. Not the correct way I know, but hey, it gets the job done. Or does it? Maybe in the short term, but in the long term I've learnt nothing. So the next time I need to code any access permission changes, I'm still no nearer to knowing the correct way. I suppose what I'm wondering is, has the Internet made me lazy?
As I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I fear no evil, for I am the God of Death.... and this is my valley. Aici zace un om despre care nu sestie prea mult
Benjamin Breeg wrote:
does access to the Internet make you lazy when you're coding
No, it's a distraction so I try to get away from such access when doing serious (i.e. personal rather than work) development.
Benjamin Breeg wrote:
do you Google for example code
No, never, what's that?
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What I mean is, does access to the Internet make you lazy when you're coding. Let me qualify this: when working on a routine that you're not sure how to code correctly, do you Google for example code instead of reading the necessary/relevant documentation? For example, I am currently working on a short article to post on Codeproject concerning the backing up and restoration of Windows 7 activation files. Because these files have limited user access, the program needs to change access permissions to backup and restore. So, rather than reading all of the necessary MSDN documentation, I Google for code samples. Not the correct way I know, but hey, it gets the job done. Or does it? Maybe in the short term, but in the long term I've learnt nothing. So the next time I need to code any access permission changes, I'm still no nearer to knowing the correct way. I suppose what I'm wondering is, has the Internet made me lazy?
As I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I fear no evil, for I am the God of Death.... and this is my valley. Aici zace un om despre care nu sestie prea mult
I think the best documentation is a solid description of the inputs and outputs with links to relevant sample code to show how things should be wired together. I can't remember how many times I've mashed two incompatible win32 functions together because I found the right API to do something and floundered around finding the API calls to generate the inputs to that method. Heck, I even have problems figuring out how to do things correctly even with the app that I work on. Unfortunately what passes for documentation these days is a whole bunch of blogs + a search engine. I had to modify the search on the latest version of a .net CMS system. They don't have any documentation out past CRUD operations, so the end result was that I spent days with reflector and google until I finally punched in the right interface name to pull up a blog post that linked to a blog post that linked to another post, that finally had the answer 10 pages down in the comments.
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
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What I mean is, does access to the Internet make you lazy when you're coding. Let me qualify this: when working on a routine that you're not sure how to code correctly, do you Google for example code instead of reading the necessary/relevant documentation? For example, I am currently working on a short article to post on Codeproject concerning the backing up and restoration of Windows 7 activation files. Because these files have limited user access, the program needs to change access permissions to backup and restore. So, rather than reading all of the necessary MSDN documentation, I Google for code samples. Not the correct way I know, but hey, it gets the job done. Or does it? Maybe in the short term, but in the long term I've learnt nothing. So the next time I need to code any access permission changes, I'm still no nearer to knowing the correct way. I suppose what I'm wondering is, has the Internet made me lazy?
As I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I fear no evil, for I am the God of Death.... and this is my valley. Aici zace un om despre care nu sestie prea mult
Benjamin Breeg wrote:
when working on a routine that you're not sure how to code correctly, do you Google for ... the necessary/relevant documentation?
Yes.
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"Some people are making such thorough preparation for rainy days that they aren't enjoying today's sunshine." - William Feather
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As long as you document your references, I think you're okay. Plagerism is worse than laziness.
m.bergman
-- For Bruce Schneier, quanta only have one state : afraid.
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I recently saw an article about this but I can't be arsed to search for it!
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
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What I mean is, does access to the Internet make you lazy when you're coding. Let me qualify this: when working on a routine that you're not sure how to code correctly, do you Google for example code instead of reading the necessary/relevant documentation? For example, I am currently working on a short article to post on Codeproject concerning the backing up and restoration of Windows 7 activation files. Because these files have limited user access, the program needs to change access permissions to backup and restore. So, rather than reading all of the necessary MSDN documentation, I Google for code samples. Not the correct way I know, but hey, it gets the job done. Or does it? Maybe in the short term, but in the long term I've learnt nothing. So the next time I need to code any access permission changes, I'm still no nearer to knowing the correct way. I suppose what I'm wondering is, has the Internet made me lazy?
As I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I fear no evil, for I am the God of Death.... and this is my valley. Aici zace un om despre care nu sestie prea mult
If it's something you don't use often, you'll forget most of it, anyway, no matter how hard you study. Google's a great "reminder" app, and good for the infrequent-use stuff.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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What I mean is, does access to the Internet make you lazy when you're coding. Let me qualify this: when working on a routine that you're not sure how to code correctly, do you Google for example code instead of reading the necessary/relevant documentation? For example, I am currently working on a short article to post on Codeproject concerning the backing up and restoration of Windows 7 activation files. Because these files have limited user access, the program needs to change access permissions to backup and restore. So, rather than reading all of the necessary MSDN documentation, I Google for code samples. Not the correct way I know, but hey, it gets the job done. Or does it? Maybe in the short term, but in the long term I've learnt nothing. So the next time I need to code any access permission changes, I'm still no nearer to knowing the correct way. I suppose what I'm wondering is, has the Internet made me lazy?
As I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I fear no evil, for I am the God of Death.... and this is my valley. Aici zace un om despre care nu sestie prea mult
I sometimes wonder whether software development has become a system-integration activity. You take components from different places, and integrate them to give out a solution to your customer. if ( Software Development == System Integration ) { Be lazy and Minimize your work; Maximize your profits; }
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What I mean is, does access to the Internet make you lazy when you're coding. Let me qualify this: when working on a routine that you're not sure how to code correctly, do you Google for example code instead of reading the necessary/relevant documentation? For example, I am currently working on a short article to post on Codeproject concerning the backing up and restoration of Windows 7 activation files. Because these files have limited user access, the program needs to change access permissions to backup and restore. So, rather than reading all of the necessary MSDN documentation, I Google for code samples. Not the correct way I know, but hey, it gets the job done. Or does it? Maybe in the short term, but in the long term I've learnt nothing. So the next time I need to code any access permission changes, I'm still no nearer to knowing the correct way. I suppose what I'm wondering is, has the Internet made me lazy?
As I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I fear no evil, for I am the God of Death.... and this is my valley. Aici zace un om despre care nu sestie prea mult
Nope. You might as well ask if it is cheating to read the documentation rather than just figure it out through trial, error and cleverness. Or question whether someone reading your future article would be lazy to read your article rather than come up with the solution for themselves. I start with the documentation and work my way out. If I'm still lost by the time I get to the Internet someone else's code often explains the method more sensibly than the documentation. On the flip side; do you recall what it was like to research a coding problem BEFORE you could use a search engine?
_____________________________ Give a man a mug, he drinks for a day. Teach a man to mug...
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Michael Bergman wrote:
document your references
Definitely a good idea. If anything, it's useful to link back to the original source when there's an article describing the code for a complicated snippet - that way you have the author's "documentation" and explanation of why the code works (assuming the author knows what they're talking about :))
The shout of progress is not "Eureka!" it's "Strange... that's not what i expected". - peterchen
Unfortuntately, much of the net is useless for reference links. 6 months later you're trying to understand your code, follow a link and its no longer there.
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What I mean is, does access to the Internet make you lazy when you're coding. Let me qualify this: when working on a routine that you're not sure how to code correctly, do you Google for example code instead of reading the necessary/relevant documentation? For example, I am currently working on a short article to post on Codeproject concerning the backing up and restoration of Windows 7 activation files. Because these files have limited user access, the program needs to change access permissions to backup and restore. So, rather than reading all of the necessary MSDN documentation, I Google for code samples. Not the correct way I know, but hey, it gets the job done. Or does it? Maybe in the short term, but in the long term I've learnt nothing. So the next time I need to code any access permission changes, I'm still no nearer to knowing the correct way. I suppose what I'm wondering is, has the Internet made me lazy?
As I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I fear no evil, for I am the God of Death.... and this is my valley. Aici zace un om despre care nu sestie prea mult
For those of us who work without access to a team of like minded developers or specialized technically library - its essential
Ger
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Its not lazy, but there is no point re-inventing the wheel! However, despite having tools such as Google at our disposal, many fail to know how to use it properly, or simply can't be @rsed. Proof of that lies in many of the qestions asked here on CP and on many other sites. :)
Dave Find Me On: Web|Facebook|Twitter|LinkedIn
Folding Stats: Team CodeProject
Well said.
----------------------------- Just along for the ride. -----------------------------
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What I mean is, does access to the Internet make you lazy when you're coding. Let me qualify this: when working on a routine that you're not sure how to code correctly, do you Google for example code instead of reading the necessary/relevant documentation? For example, I am currently working on a short article to post on Codeproject concerning the backing up and restoration of Windows 7 activation files. Because these files have limited user access, the program needs to change access permissions to backup and restore. So, rather than reading all of the necessary MSDN documentation, I Google for code samples. Not the correct way I know, but hey, it gets the job done. Or does it? Maybe in the short term, but in the long term I've learnt nothing. So the next time I need to code any access permission changes, I'm still no nearer to knowing the correct way. I suppose what I'm wondering is, has the Internet made me lazy?
As I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I fear no evil, for I am the God of Death.... and this is my valley. Aici zace un om despre care nu sestie prea mult
Judging by the latest set of questions on the Question section.. it would appear some people are so lazy they can't even google for the answer, and need someone else to do it for them!
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What I mean is, does access to the Internet make you lazy when you're coding. Let me qualify this: when working on a routine that you're not sure how to code correctly, do you Google for example code instead of reading the necessary/relevant documentation? For example, I am currently working on a short article to post on Codeproject concerning the backing up and restoration of Windows 7 activation files. Because these files have limited user access, the program needs to change access permissions to backup and restore. So, rather than reading all of the necessary MSDN documentation, I Google for code samples. Not the correct way I know, but hey, it gets the job done. Or does it? Maybe in the short term, but in the long term I've learnt nothing. So the next time I need to code any access permission changes, I'm still no nearer to knowing the correct way. I suppose what I'm wondering is, has the Internet made me lazy?
As I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I fear no evil, for I am the God of Death.... and this is my valley. Aici zace un om despre care nu sestie prea mult
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For serious developers, the internet doesn't make you lazy, it's simply another tool/resource. I may look for code samples online, but only as a guide, and I never use it unless I understand it. As someone else mentioned, why spend an hour deriving a solution when 10 minutes of Googling can find an example that you can read through an realize "Yeah, that's exactly what I want to do" or "What was this guy smoking? I'll figure it out myself." :) In my case, I always access MSDN documentation online rather than using local help, since local seems to take 5 minutes to open the first time, but opening in a web browser is relatively instant. Plus, any updates to documentation are always online, and not necessarily available for download. I'm not sure, but I doubt MS ships updated local documentation for a VS service pack - they probably assume you have internet access and will just get to the latest documentation online anyway. Dybs
The shout of progress is not "Eureka!" it's "Strange... that's not what i expected". - peterchen
I never use it unless I understand it I wish some of my developers followed that rule. Again and again I find code that is somewhat flaky and when I ask the developer about it he says, "It's something I found on the Internet." Now I worship the God Google and wonder how we ever lived without it. Most documentation has been a joke and many books require you to read everything up to the part you are interested in to comprehend their presentation. But somewhere in the InnerTubes, someone has had the same frustrations and have taken the time to give a real code example of what you are looking for. But you have to understand what you are looking at before you use it. I agree with you 100%.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11
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What I mean is, does access to the Internet make you lazy when you're coding. Let me qualify this: when working on a routine that you're not sure how to code correctly, do you Google for example code instead of reading the necessary/relevant documentation? For example, I am currently working on a short article to post on Codeproject concerning the backing up and restoration of Windows 7 activation files. Because these files have limited user access, the program needs to change access permissions to backup and restore. So, rather than reading all of the necessary MSDN documentation, I Google for code samples. Not the correct way I know, but hey, it gets the job done. Or does it? Maybe in the short term, but in the long term I've learnt nothing. So the next time I need to code any access permission changes, I'm still no nearer to knowing the correct way. I suppose what I'm wondering is, has the Internet made me lazy?
As I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I fear no evil, for I am the God of Death.... and this is my valley. Aici zace un om despre care nu sestie prea mult
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What I mean is, does access to the Internet make you lazy when you're coding. Let me qualify this: when working on a routine that you're not sure how to code correctly, do you Google for example code instead of reading the necessary/relevant documentation? For example, I am currently working on a short article to post on Codeproject concerning the backing up and restoration of Windows 7 activation files. Because these files have limited user access, the program needs to change access permissions to backup and restore. So, rather than reading all of the necessary MSDN documentation, I Google for code samples. Not the correct way I know, but hey, it gets the job done. Or does it? Maybe in the short term, but in the long term I've learnt nothing. So the next time I need to code any access permission changes, I'm still no nearer to knowing the correct way. I suppose what I'm wondering is, has the Internet made me lazy?
As I walk through the Valley of the Shadow of Death, I fear no evil, for I am the God of Death.... and this is my valley. Aici zace un om despre care nu sestie prea mult
Use both documentation and code samples found throughout the Internet.