How much knowing math well helps programmer?!
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Dalek Dave wrote:
unless you are developing for a very arcane discipline that requires obtuse and cryptic sums.
Such as accounting, where very large sums on the Income sheet magically become small ones when moved to the Tax Due sheet.
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Recently I had a fun discussion with my colleague(he works on algorithms) on this topic, thought you guys would give some insight.
I think that the most appropiate answer here falls in the category of "depending on the task to be accomplished". :rose:
[www.tamelectromecanica.com] Robots, CNC and PLC machines for grinding and polishing.
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You said maths is not required, but logic is. Therefore your comment made no sense. Unless of course you meant philosophical logic rather than mathematical logic. In which case you are lacking in logic because you do not fully understand the argument we are having.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
I didn't say logic was required. I said it helps, and by that I mean being a logical thinker is a plus. like someone that has good problem solving skills etc. If you mean the AND/OR/NOT etc. logic then that is certainly another plus in some areas of programming
My opinions are right, and yours are wrong! (or at least that is my opinion)
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Recently I had a fun discussion with my colleague(he works on algorithms) on this topic, thought you guys would give some insight.
A good solid understanding of maths - it's shortened from mathematics not mathematic - is a must in anything by the most trivial application. [example: How do you determine a hash code and how will you know if it's good?] You need a good knowledge of logic. Is the decision point in your if statement correct? An understanding of how things work under the hood helps when implementing. A true example, we had to sort a list on the fly as it came in, probably 80-100 items through per minute and it needed to refresh the display. Easy yes? The sort algorythym moved about the values rather than the references and it was pants, a quick index in the middle and sorting was reduced to negligible. Only sorting when refreshing the display was another cheap improvement.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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Yes, I was physically abused with a copy of Hamlet as a child. My shrink says that is the reason I use it so much... I often have to see a shrink in to keep my grammar in check you see
My opinions are right, and yours are wrong! (or at least that is my opinion)
Now we know the rest of the story.
I may be schizophrenic, but at least I have each other.
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You said maths is not required, but logic is. Therefore your comment made no sense. Unless of course you meant philosophical logic rather than mathematical logic. In which case you are lacking in logic because you do not fully understand the argument we are having.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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A good solid understanding of maths - it's shortened from mathematics not mathematic - is a must in anything by the most trivial application. [example: How do you determine a hash code and how will you know if it's good?] You need a good knowledge of logic. Is the decision point in your if statement correct? An understanding of how things work under the hood helps when implementing. A true example, we had to sort a list on the fly as it came in, probably 80-100 items through per minute and it needed to refresh the display. Easy yes? The sort algorythym moved about the values rather than the references and it was pants, a quick index in the middle and sorting was reduced to negligible. Only sorting when refreshing the display was another cheap improvement.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
Much as I admire your attempt to teach them the correct spelling of MATHS, I feel I must pull you up on this line...
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
An understanding of how things work under the hood helps when implementing.
Bonnet, surely? Just sayin'
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
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I didn't say logic was required. I said it helps, and by that I mean being a logical thinker is a plus. like someone that has good problem solving skills etc. If you mean the AND/OR/NOT etc. logic then that is certainly another plus in some areas of programming
My opinions are right, and yours are wrong! (or at least that is my opinion)
Logic is vital in all areas of programming, you cannot do it without. What you are calling logic or logical thinking, problem solving, is just more maths. Maths is not just numbers and equations.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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In any other business (except perhaps law!) doing two minutes work and charging for 15 minutes would be classed as fraud.
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A good solid understanding of maths - it's shortened from mathematics not mathematic - is a must in anything by the most trivial application. [example: How do you determine a hash code and how will you know if it's good?] You need a good knowledge of logic. Is the decision point in your if statement correct? An understanding of how things work under the hood helps when implementing. A true example, we had to sort a list on the fly as it came in, probably 80-100 items through per minute and it needed to refresh the display. Easy yes? The sort algorythym moved about the values rather than the references and it was pants, a quick index in the middle and sorting was reduced to negligible. Only sorting when refreshing the display was another cheap improvement.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
algorythym
And another one!
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Nagy Vilmos wrote:
algorythym
And another one!
Surrey, may spill chicken is bracken.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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Recently I had a fun discussion with my colleague(he works on algorithms) on this topic, thought you guys would give some insight.
A lot depends on which field of mathematics, and on what you are coding. I was a math major in college. Some classes focused on logic and analysis: analytic geometry, abstract algebra and discrete math. That discipline is very helpful for just about any task. Most mathematics -- calculus, trigonometry, set theory, statistics -- are useful in programming only if you are going to be writing code that performs arithmetic calculations. Even then, you really aren't doing much original work, and a basic maths library will work just fine. Where you need a mathematical background is if you are, say, working for a company that writes basic maths libraries, or are part of a research team and need to take ideas and write them into simulations.
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In any other business (except perhaps law!) doing two minutes work and charging for 15 minutes would be classed as fraud.
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In any other business (except perhaps law!) doing two minutes work and charging for 15 minutes would be classed as fraud.
A lawyer charges 15 minutes for the paperwork recording the fifteen minutes billed for the 2 minutes effort they got the secretary to do for them. :-D
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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Much as I admire your attempt to teach them the correct spelling of MATHS, I feel I must pull you up on this line...
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
An understanding of how things work under the hood helps when implementing.
Bonnet, surely? Just sayin'
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
Touché M. Pussy-Cat
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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Logic is vital in all areas of programming, you cannot do it without. What you are calling logic or logical thinking, problem solving, is just more maths. Maths is not just numbers and equations.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
ChrisElston wrote:
Logic is vital in all areas of programming, you cannot do it without.
Are you just arguing with me for the sake of it? This is the second response where you are claiming I have said something that was not in my message. Why don't you read in again (or properly for the first time)... I said, "good logic skills is a big help for programming". This does not say it is required, this does not say you can program with zero logic. This means, better logic skills are of benefit.
ChrisElston wrote:
Logic is vital in all areas of programming, you cannot do it without.
If you learn to apply techniques you don't need to have logic. You get set requirements, you fulfil them with things you have read (other people's logic) and I would say (with my own logic) that there are programmers out that who get by like this just fine. Learn the theory, apply the theory. However, my opinion is a programmer will be better with good logic skills. Now, feel free to discard everything I just said, and comment on completely made up sentences as they form in your head
My opinions are right, and yours are wrong! (or at least that is my opinion)
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ChrisElston wrote:
Logic is vital in all areas of programming, you cannot do it without.
Are you just arguing with me for the sake of it? This is the second response where you are claiming I have said something that was not in my message. Why don't you read in again (or properly for the first time)... I said, "good logic skills is a big help for programming". This does not say it is required, this does not say you can program with zero logic. This means, better logic skills are of benefit.
ChrisElston wrote:
Logic is vital in all areas of programming, you cannot do it without.
If you learn to apply techniques you don't need to have logic. You get set requirements, you fulfil them with things you have read (other people's logic) and I would say (with my own logic) that there are programmers out that who get by like this just fine. Learn the theory, apply the theory. However, my opinion is a programmer will be better with good logic skills. Now, feel free to discard everything I just said, and comment on completely made up sentences as they form in your head
My opinions are right, and yours are wrong! (or at least that is my opinion)
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In my opinion programing is maths. And maths is an art.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
ChrisElston wrote:
In my opinion programing is maths.
Other than basic math, if that, how much of your programming involves math(s)? Just curious. :)
----------------------------- Just along for the ride. -----------------------------
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ChrisElston wrote:
In my opinion programing is maths.
Other than basic math, if that, how much of your programming involves math(s)? Just curious. :)
----------------------------- Just along for the ride. -----------------------------
I think that all of it is. You have something, it has a value, what happens depends on what that value is in relation to some other value or values. I think that is maths.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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You said that knowing maths was not required. Knowing maths most definitely is. Even if it just logic.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
In that statement, I indeed was thinking of maths as being the number crunching, algorithm aspect of it. Which was what I interpreted from the OP. But your reasoning of it meaning an all encompassing maths makes it a pointless topic
My opinions are right, and yours are wrong! (or at least that is my opinion)
