Decision Time. Have your say....
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Background: Until the last 4-5 years, I was coding in C++ for living, even though I have jumped into the .NET wagon in the early beta time (early 2000 I guess), I stayed doing C++ while doing some small tasks in C#. The last 5 years I have been into solid C# work. Current Situation: I have been looking for jobs lately and now I am lucky to be presented with few prospects. I have made it all the way through the interview process and now I’m invited into second interview in couple of places. One place is inviting me to work in their C++ team, while the other is in C#. I love both of them and there is major difference between them C++ side: - Good company - Nice Team - Very exciting product - Challenging work - Lead position - C# - Good *new* company with lots of potential (so far no one has similar product) - Very small team, but potential for growth - - Not as challenging as the C++ product - Lead position. So my dilemma is, if I jump into the C++ wagon back again, am I inflicting harm to myself. I know C++ won't go away any time soon (Probably never), but in my current job search the positions I found for C# way way outnumber those for C++. I would assume this will be the same, say in 5 years. While I have no problem switching from C++ to C#, but employers will be looking into what one was doing recently when considering him/her. And I am not sure what that means falling back to C++ after solid 5 years in C#. Now, The C++ product will be ported into C#, I was told, but not any time soon (may be in the next 3-5 years). That is good but there is no guarantee that will happen as well. I have been working with C# backend, services and web applications. Recently I'm into WCF. I got no windows forms or WPF experience, but would love to venture into them down the road. So, if you were in similar situation, what would you do? Would you consider going back into a language that you have enjoyed at the risk of minimizing your potential C# learning and real world work progress? Or would you toss the C++ option at this stage and stick to C#?
Yusuf May I help you?
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Background: Until the last 4-5 years, I was coding in C++ for living, even though I have jumped into the .NET wagon in the early beta time (early 2000 I guess), I stayed doing C++ while doing some small tasks in C#. The last 5 years I have been into solid C# work. Current Situation: I have been looking for jobs lately and now I am lucky to be presented with few prospects. I have made it all the way through the interview process and now I’m invited into second interview in couple of places. One place is inviting me to work in their C++ team, while the other is in C#. I love both of them and there is major difference between them C++ side: - Good company - Nice Team - Very exciting product - Challenging work - Lead position - C# - Good *new* company with lots of potential (so far no one has similar product) - Very small team, but potential for growth - - Not as challenging as the C++ product - Lead position. So my dilemma is, if I jump into the C++ wagon back again, am I inflicting harm to myself. I know C++ won't go away any time soon (Probably never), but in my current job search the positions I found for C# way way outnumber those for C++. I would assume this will be the same, say in 5 years. While I have no problem switching from C++ to C#, but employers will be looking into what one was doing recently when considering him/her. And I am not sure what that means falling back to C++ after solid 5 years in C#. Now, The C++ product will be ported into C#, I was told, but not any time soon (may be in the next 3-5 years). That is good but there is no guarantee that will happen as well. I have been working with C# backend, services and web applications. Recently I'm into WCF. I got no windows forms or WPF experience, but would love to venture into them down the road. So, if you were in similar situation, what would you do? Would you consider going back into a language that you have enjoyed at the risk of minimizing your potential C# learning and real world work progress? Or would you toss the C++ option at this stage and stick to C#?
Yusuf May I help you?
You missed two important items,the quantity of money and the quality of the admin girls.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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You missed two important items,the quantity of money and the quality of the admin girls.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
quantoty
Is that the quantity of totty?
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Nagy Vilmos wrote:
quantoty
Is that the quantity of totty?
No, that's bad spelling. :-D
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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You missed two important items,the quantity of money and the quality of the admin girls.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
the quantoty of money
about the same
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
quality of the admin girls.
who you calling ugly ;P right now we don't have one :omg:
Yusuf May I help you?
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Background: Until the last 4-5 years, I was coding in C++ for living, even though I have jumped into the .NET wagon in the early beta time (early 2000 I guess), I stayed doing C++ while doing some small tasks in C#. The last 5 years I have been into solid C# work. Current Situation: I have been looking for jobs lately and now I am lucky to be presented with few prospects. I have made it all the way through the interview process and now I’m invited into second interview in couple of places. One place is inviting me to work in their C++ team, while the other is in C#. I love both of them and there is major difference between them C++ side: - Good company - Nice Team - Very exciting product - Challenging work - Lead position - C# - Good *new* company with lots of potential (so far no one has similar product) - Very small team, but potential for growth - - Not as challenging as the C++ product - Lead position. So my dilemma is, if I jump into the C++ wagon back again, am I inflicting harm to myself. I know C++ won't go away any time soon (Probably never), but in my current job search the positions I found for C# way way outnumber those for C++. I would assume this will be the same, say in 5 years. While I have no problem switching from C++ to C#, but employers will be looking into what one was doing recently when considering him/her. And I am not sure what that means falling back to C++ after solid 5 years in C#. Now, The C++ product will be ported into C#, I was told, but not any time soon (may be in the next 3-5 years). That is good but there is no guarantee that will happen as well. I have been working with C# backend, services and web applications. Recently I'm into WCF. I got no windows forms or WPF experience, but would love to venture into them down the road. So, if you were in similar situation, what would you do? Would you consider going back into a language that you have enjoyed at the risk of minimizing your potential C# learning and real world work progress? Or would you toss the C++ option at this stage and stick to C#?
Yusuf May I help you?
Which language do you enjoy working with more? You didn't mention any preference, but surely you have one. Also, if you take the C++ job, let me know where the C# job is located!
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson My comedy.
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Background: Until the last 4-5 years, I was coding in C++ for living, even though I have jumped into the .NET wagon in the early beta time (early 2000 I guess), I stayed doing C++ while doing some small tasks in C#. The last 5 years I have been into solid C# work. Current Situation: I have been looking for jobs lately and now I am lucky to be presented with few prospects. I have made it all the way through the interview process and now I’m invited into second interview in couple of places. One place is inviting me to work in their C++ team, while the other is in C#. I love both of them and there is major difference between them C++ side: - Good company - Nice Team - Very exciting product - Challenging work - Lead position - C# - Good *new* company with lots of potential (so far no one has similar product) - Very small team, but potential for growth - - Not as challenging as the C++ product - Lead position. So my dilemma is, if I jump into the C++ wagon back again, am I inflicting harm to myself. I know C++ won't go away any time soon (Probably never), but in my current job search the positions I found for C# way way outnumber those for C++. I would assume this will be the same, say in 5 years. While I have no problem switching from C++ to C#, but employers will be looking into what one was doing recently when considering him/her. And I am not sure what that means falling back to C++ after solid 5 years in C#. Now, The C++ product will be ported into C#, I was told, but not any time soon (may be in the next 3-5 years). That is good but there is no guarantee that will happen as well. I have been working with C# backend, services and web applications. Recently I'm into WCF. I got no windows forms or WPF experience, but would love to venture into them down the road. So, if you were in similar situation, what would you do? Would you consider going back into a language that you have enjoyed at the risk of minimizing your potential C# learning and real world work progress? Or would you toss the C++ option at this stage and stick to C#?
Yusuf May I help you?
- What support do they have for the development. - what source control do they have ? - will you have a good modern computer as soon as you get it or will you wait for one for months ? - what kind of 3rd party library they are using ? - do they have functional backups ? - ... - Commute time ? - What's good to eat close by ? ...
Watched code never compiles.
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Which language do you enjoy working with more? You didn't mention any preference, but surely you have one. Also, if you take the C++ job, let me know where the C# job is located!
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson My comedy.
wizardzz wrote:
Which language do you enjoy working with more?
good question. that is at the heart of my dilemmas as I love and enjoy both. May be right now I lean a bit more to the C#, but that could be because of all the work I am doing now.
wizardzz wrote:
Also, if you take the C++ job, let me know where the C# job is located!
<evil thought>accept both and outsource C# to... never mind ;P </evil thought>
Yusuf May I help you?
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Background: Until the last 4-5 years, I was coding in C++ for living, even though I have jumped into the .NET wagon in the early beta time (early 2000 I guess), I stayed doing C++ while doing some small tasks in C#. The last 5 years I have been into solid C# work. Current Situation: I have been looking for jobs lately and now I am lucky to be presented with few prospects. I have made it all the way through the interview process and now I’m invited into second interview in couple of places. One place is inviting me to work in their C++ team, while the other is in C#. I love both of them and there is major difference between them C++ side: - Good company - Nice Team - Very exciting product - Challenging work - Lead position - C# - Good *new* company with lots of potential (so far no one has similar product) - Very small team, but potential for growth - - Not as challenging as the C++ product - Lead position. So my dilemma is, if I jump into the C++ wagon back again, am I inflicting harm to myself. I know C++ won't go away any time soon (Probably never), but in my current job search the positions I found for C# way way outnumber those for C++. I would assume this will be the same, say in 5 years. While I have no problem switching from C++ to C#, but employers will be looking into what one was doing recently when considering him/her. And I am not sure what that means falling back to C++ after solid 5 years in C#. Now, The C++ product will be ported into C#, I was told, but not any time soon (may be in the next 3-5 years). That is good but there is no guarantee that will happen as well. I have been working with C# backend, services and web applications. Recently I'm into WCF. I got no windows forms or WPF experience, but would love to venture into them down the road. So, if you were in similar situation, what would you do? Would you consider going back into a language that you have enjoyed at the risk of minimizing your potential C# learning and real world work progress? Or would you toss the C++ option at this stage and stick to C#?
Yusuf May I help you?
I'm in kinda a similar situation, looking out for jobs, been doing C++ for 12+ years and been doing C# for the last 3 years too. My problem is I can't ask for the the same money in the C# jobs available with the little experience I have. (and when recruiters here ask for C# .NET experience, they really mean ASP.NET experience) With your experience level I'd go with the C#, but that's as much about me getting into learning all the C# stuff I've put off learning up to now and wanting to get more experience using C#. I'd say go with the language you want to write code in most at the minute if all else is equal.
Pete
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- What support do they have for the development. - what source control do they have ? - will you have a good modern computer as soon as you get it or will you wait for one for months ? - what kind of 3rd party library they are using ? - do they have functional backups ? - ... - Commute time ? - What's good to eat close by ? ...
Watched code never compiles.
Maximilien wrote:
will you have a good modern computer as soon as you get it or will you wait for one for months ?
or inherit a 3 year old computer from the last guy that left?
Pete
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- What support do they have for the development. - what source control do they have ? - will you have a good modern computer as soon as you get it or will you wait for one for months ? - what kind of 3rd party library they are using ? - do they have functional backups ? - ... - Commute time ? - What's good to eat close by ? ...
Watched code never compiles.
Maximilien wrote:
- What support do they have for the development.
- what source control do they have ?
- will you have a good modern computer as soon as you get it or will you wait for one for months ?
- what kind of 3rd party library they are using ?
- do they have functional backups ?In my all of these will have less weight in my decision process. May be in the case of a tie, I may use these to break the tie.
Maximilien wrote:
- Commute time ?
Both are worst than my current job, but C++ will be more accessible
Maximilien wrote:
What's good to eat close by ?
C++ is in a major big city, so there is a lot of added value, where as the C# is in a dull place compared to the former.
Yusuf May I help you?
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I'm in kinda a similar situation, looking out for jobs, been doing C++ for 12+ years and been doing C# for the last 3 years too. My problem is I can't ask for the the same money in the C# jobs available with the little experience I have. (and when recruiters here ask for C# .NET experience, they really mean ASP.NET experience) With your experience level I'd go with the C#, but that's as much about me getting into learning all the C# stuff I've put off learning up to now and wanting to get more experience using C#. I'd say go with the language you want to write code in most at the minute if all else is equal.
Pete
Have you thought about leap-frogging over development? Go into project management or design and you can become language agnostic.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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Maximilien wrote:
will you have a good modern computer as soon as you get it or will you wait for one for months ?
or inherit a 3 year old computer from the last guy that left?
Pete
Yeah, I ran into that at the start of my new gig. Here's your Win XP box with 1 gig or ram and 2 17inch monitors. Oh, and we still use VS 2003 for everything. We've got 2010 but just haven't installed it yet... I vetoed 2003 as fast as possible, installed 2010, and harrased them for more ram. It's a start anyway. :laugh:
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Have you thought about leap-frogging over development? Go into project management or design and you can become language agnostic.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
I've thought about it and said No. I still like the whole "hello world" thing of making this machine do what i want it to do (read the Verity Stobbs link that was posted earlier).
Pete
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Yeah, I ran into that at the start of my new gig. Here's your Win XP box with 1 gig or ram and 2 17inch monitors. Oh, and we still use VS 2003 for everything. We've got 2010 but just haven't installed it yet... I vetoed 2003 as fast as possible, installed 2010, and harrased them for more ram. It's a start anyway. :laugh:
I started here using 2008 express. We've got 2010 professional now and a few more tools they've actually forked out for. And recently we all (software team) got a second monitor. :-D
Pete
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I've thought about it and said No. I still like the whole "hello world" thing of making this machine do what i want it to do (read the Verity Stobbs link that was posted earlier).
Pete
It's fun getting the trained simians to do something. I found in the early stages that I got frustrated by the fact that the juniors take tow or three times as long to do anything as it would take me. Then I had an epiphany, the five devs can still produce more than I could as long as I keep them busy.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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Background: Until the last 4-5 years, I was coding in C++ for living, even though I have jumped into the .NET wagon in the early beta time (early 2000 I guess), I stayed doing C++ while doing some small tasks in C#. The last 5 years I have been into solid C# work. Current Situation: I have been looking for jobs lately and now I am lucky to be presented with few prospects. I have made it all the way through the interview process and now I’m invited into second interview in couple of places. One place is inviting me to work in their C++ team, while the other is in C#. I love both of them and there is major difference between them C++ side: - Good company - Nice Team - Very exciting product - Challenging work - Lead position - C# - Good *new* company with lots of potential (so far no one has similar product) - Very small team, but potential for growth - - Not as challenging as the C++ product - Lead position. So my dilemma is, if I jump into the C++ wagon back again, am I inflicting harm to myself. I know C++ won't go away any time soon (Probably never), but in my current job search the positions I found for C# way way outnumber those for C++. I would assume this will be the same, say in 5 years. While I have no problem switching from C++ to C#, but employers will be looking into what one was doing recently when considering him/her. And I am not sure what that means falling back to C++ after solid 5 years in C#. Now, The C++ product will be ported into C#, I was told, but not any time soon (may be in the next 3-5 years). That is good but there is no guarantee that will happen as well. I have been working with C# backend, services and web applications. Recently I'm into WCF. I got no windows forms or WPF experience, but would love to venture into them down the road. So, if you were in similar situation, what would you do? Would you consider going back into a language that you have enjoyed at the risk of minimizing your potential C# learning and real world work progress? Or would you toss the C++ option at this stage and stick to C#?
Yusuf May I help you?
Depends on your career plan. If you know that you will stay in the C++ position, and become one of the last C++ gurus ( guess how much someone programming in FORTRAN earns nowadays ), then go for it. If you cn't stay more than 5 years at the same place, go for the C# position. I understand your doubts: I had to make the same choice 5 years ago, which was even harder : programming or not programming ( I chose the second ), making me miss the C# wagon; so it is not possible anymore for me to find a position as a programmer...
CCu
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I'm in kinda a similar situation, looking out for jobs, been doing C++ for 12+ years and been doing C# for the last 3 years too. My problem is I can't ask for the the same money in the C# jobs available with the little experience I have. (and when recruiters here ask for C# .NET experience, they really mean ASP.NET experience) With your experience level I'd go with the C#, but that's as much about me getting into learning all the C# stuff I've put off learning up to now and wanting to get more experience using C#. I'd say go with the language you want to write code in most at the minute if all else is equal.
Pete
Peter Mulholland wrote:
I can't ask for the the same money in the C# jobs
Bah, why not? Experience as a developer should be more important that what language you were using. If you run into a company that doesn't think like that you probably don't want to work for them anyway. Each time I've had to look for work in the last 10 years my first step was to ask for about 20-30% more pay than I had at the last job. I didn't always find a job that would meet what I asked for. But by aiming high I always able to negotiate a pay level that was still well above the previous gig. Always aim for the sky.
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It's fun getting the trained simians to do something. I found in the early stages that I got frustrated by the fact that the juniors take tow or three times as long to do anything as it would take me. Then I had an epiphany, the five devs can still produce more than I could as long as I keep them busy.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
Maybe I just like to reinvent the wheel, I dunno. The idea of getting someone else to do the work I'd like to be doing while I do all the meetings and plannning and all that abstract stuff just doesn't work for me. And I don't have a problem with that.
Pete
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Background: Until the last 4-5 years, I was coding in C++ for living, even though I have jumped into the .NET wagon in the early beta time (early 2000 I guess), I stayed doing C++ while doing some small tasks in C#. The last 5 years I have been into solid C# work. Current Situation: I have been looking for jobs lately and now I am lucky to be presented with few prospects. I have made it all the way through the interview process and now I’m invited into second interview in couple of places. One place is inviting me to work in their C++ team, while the other is in C#. I love both of them and there is major difference between them C++ side: - Good company - Nice Team - Very exciting product - Challenging work - Lead position - C# - Good *new* company with lots of potential (so far no one has similar product) - Very small team, but potential for growth - - Not as challenging as the C++ product - Lead position. So my dilemma is, if I jump into the C++ wagon back again, am I inflicting harm to myself. I know C++ won't go away any time soon (Probably never), but in my current job search the positions I found for C# way way outnumber those for C++. I would assume this will be the same, say in 5 years. While I have no problem switching from C++ to C#, but employers will be looking into what one was doing recently when considering him/her. And I am not sure what that means falling back to C++ after solid 5 years in C#. Now, The C++ product will be ported into C#, I was told, but not any time soon (may be in the next 3-5 years). That is good but there is no guarantee that will happen as well. I have been working with C# backend, services and web applications. Recently I'm into WCF. I got no windows forms or WPF experience, but would love to venture into them down the road. So, if you were in similar situation, what would you do? Would you consider going back into a language that you have enjoyed at the risk of minimizing your potential C# learning and real world work progress? Or would you toss the C++ option at this stage and stick to C#?
Yusuf May I help you?
Go with the one having better pay and benefits. If those are the same, I would go with the C++ job. Even Microsoft still uses C++ for XBox programming (the Framework is too slow and bloated for situations needing speed and compactness; imagine that.) There is the added advantage in that, by keeping your C++ skills up to date, your skills remain a bit more marketable, in that you can switch to mainframe computing if that is the job available. Also, I have seen far too many startups with great ideas flounder: if I am investing my time in a company, I want a reasonable assurance that the company will still be there in three or five years. And if the C++ job does port to C#, you are in an excellent position to retain your job for that project given your current skill set.