Anyone here actually care about Windows 8 and silverlight / wpf / jupiter controversy?
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I visited here periodically all summer looking to see any discussion and barely a word, now with less than a week I see a lot of jokes and not much else. I'm getting a strong "meh" vibe here whenever it comes up. I can only attribute this to a lot of people who work in cubicles and don't have to bet their future of their own business on the outcome of this or perhaps many of you have already moved off of windows development and only come here out of habit or are planning on retiring soon or...? I mean if not *here* then *where*? This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
There is no failure only feedback
Well... so far there is only conjecture but no fact! :P
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station.... _________________________________________________________ My programs never have bugs, they just develop random features.
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First, I apologize; I "teed-off" on your post much too vehemently. I have edited my original post to remove content that may be "inflammatory" and ad hominem. I still don't like the tone of your original post, and its implications, but reading this comment I sure understand better where you are coming from, and I wish the content of this comment were in your original post. best, Bill
"Is it a fact - or have I dreamt it - that, by means of electricity, the world of matter has become a great nerve, vibrating thousands of miles in a breathless point of time? Rather, the round globe is a vast head, a brain, instinct with intelligence!" - Nathanial Hawthorne, House of the Seven Gables
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I'm not worried for several reasons: - there is a dedicated XAML team in the windows team (I don't care about the names 'wpf' and 'silverlight', it's XAML that I love, and clearly - msft sees great value in that technology) - This controversy really isn't a controversy at all. It's just drama queens on the internet who heared the buzzwords "html5" and "javascript" and then went on to make a bunch of unfounded assumptions and posting rants on silverlight forums. Based on nothing whatsoever. - currently existing .NET applications will be the easiest to port to ARM devices. All that needs to happen is porting the .NET framework (which msft will OBVIOUSLY do) and recompiling your project for ARM. It's quite obvious that .NET will remain very important. What I expect the future to be like: For big, intense/advanced applications you'll use a native language (think photoshop, fat games, 3d max,...) For LOB applications, you'll use .NET and Xaml/ASP/html5. For stupid 1$ applications (or "apps" :confused: ) that nobody needs but everybody wants, you'll use .NET, silverlight or HTML5. I'm guessing you don't see much discussion about this here, because generally, this site is filled with pretty mature professionals instead of immature drama queens. :-)
There are quite a bit more areas of potential change than xaml / silverlight / wpf. For example there is purportedly a *huge* push coming for the newly coined WinC++ over C#. The App store brings up many implications for independent software shops like ours; are they going to lock down windows like Apple does? Are we going to have to change how we distribute our software etc etc. Many different issues and many different ways to protect ourselves and new directions to look at which *are* being discussed rationally by non drama queens on other sites. :)
There is no failure only feedback
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If those people are as dedicated as the VB6 people (or Visual FoxPro ones) I wouldn't worry. With what they have now in terms of tools, framework they can survive long past any shit move µSoft will pull. Silverlight 5 and WPF 4 are sufficiently mature to allow a good programmer build stuff the meets the market's demand at any time. There's so much potential in the current versions of these frameworks that µSoft would have to actually block the execution of such applications in order to stop them from proliferating for the next 10 years at least. Don't worry, be happy.
giuchici
I think you and others are missing an important aspect which perhaps may be due to your environment you work in. Many respondents here say they are still using xp! We make commercial software we sell directly to the consumer. *They* drive what we have to do, we don't have the luxury of specifying the platform used like in a corporate environment. For example when Vista was about to be RC'd we had a significant number of people *already* using it and bitching at us if there were any issues with our app with Vista. We have a *lot* of current users running windows 7 64 bit. We *will* undoubtedly have a *lot* of people running Windows 8 the moment it's released or shortly before and they will bitch at us mercilessly if there is some cool new UI system in it that we are not integrated with perfectly. If we don't do it they can go elsewhere so there is huge pressure to be cutting edge at all times.
There is no failure only feedback
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I visited here periodically all summer looking to see any discussion and barely a word, now with less than a week I see a lot of jokes and not much else. I'm getting a strong "meh" vibe here whenever it comes up. I can only attribute this to a lot of people who work in cubicles and don't have to bet their future of their own business on the outcome of this or perhaps many of you have already moved off of windows development and only come here out of habit or are planning on retiring soon or...? I mean if not *here* then *where*? This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
There is no failure only feedback
Where I work we're still on Windows XP, so I'm a long ways from worrying about that. On a personal side, I always enjoy looking to new stuff, so even if the rumors were true and my world gets flipped over, I will enjoy the ride.
"To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems" - Homer Simpson
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I think you and others are missing an important aspect which perhaps may be due to your environment you work in. Many respondents here say they are still using xp! We make commercial software we sell directly to the consumer. *They* drive what we have to do, we don't have the luxury of specifying the platform used like in a corporate environment. For example when Vista was about to be RC'd we had a significant number of people *already* using it and bitching at us if there were any issues with our app with Vista. We have a *lot* of current users running windows 7 64 bit. We *will* undoubtedly have a *lot* of people running Windows 8 the moment it's released or shortly before and they will bitch at us mercilessly if there is some cool new UI system in it that we are not integrated with perfectly. If we don't do it they can go elsewhere so there is huge pressure to be cutting edge at all times.
There is no failure only feedback
Look from its own perspective every individual thinks is right. You may well be right. I find hard to believe that a blitz adoption of Windows 8 will bring your company in that situation but you probably know better. I understand there are reasons to be concerned and I trully am, despite the appearance of taking it lightly in my previous post. I hate to be at the mercy of a company that doesn't seem to stay on the correct path for too long and once in a while likes to screw its devotee programmers. The problem is that it's Friday and I worked in Silverlight as a junior for a company that kicked me out before I started dreaming asynchronously. So, I have a love-hate relation with Silverlight. Nevertheless to kill WPF in favour of JavTML5 it is plain wrong from my perspective. I don't know how can they bring a scripting language like javascript with all its minuses to the standards of C# and VB.NET. To recap in short: I am concerned and I share your concern as well but what can we do? Tell me. It reminds me how Blu-Ray won against a superior HD-DVD just because it had among other things a much cooler name ...
giuchici
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I visited here periodically all summer looking to see any discussion and barely a word, now with less than a week I see a lot of jokes and not much else. I'm getting a strong "meh" vibe here whenever it comes up. I can only attribute this to a lot of people who work in cubicles and don't have to bet their future of their own business on the outcome of this or perhaps many of you have already moved off of windows development and only come here out of habit or are planning on retiring soon or...? I mean if not *here* then *where*? This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
There is no failure only feedback
Uh ... What's a planet got to do with that other stuff? I'm so out of it ... Oh, the answer is "no".
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There are quite a bit more areas of potential change than xaml / silverlight / wpf. For example there is purportedly a *huge* push coming for the newly coined WinC++ over C#. The App store brings up many implications for independent software shops like ours; are they going to lock down windows like Apple does? Are we going to have to change how we distribute our software etc etc. Many different issues and many different ways to protect ourselves and new directions to look at which *are* being discussed rationally by non drama queens on other sites. :)
There is no failure only feedback
Sure, but you didn't ask about that. You asked about the silverlight/wpf/jupiter controversy. We don't really know what jupiter is, other then that it is related to xaml (and even that is not really sure). ;P And I'm fairly positive that nothing will change about distribution of software. I'm positive that there won't be any apple-like dictatorial control of our applications. Quite simply because the eco-system of software vendors is FAR to big for msft to expect the market make such a massive move. If such a 'forced' distribution is part of the market place, it will only be for specific types of applications making use of a specific technology (html5? jupiter?). But there is simply NO WAY that msft is gonna force all vendors to use the market place from now on. I don't see in what universe they would be able to pull that off... We'll see tomorrow :cool:
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I visited here periodically all summer looking to see any discussion and barely a word, now with less than a week I see a lot of jokes and not much else. I'm getting a strong "meh" vibe here whenever it comes up. I can only attribute this to a lot of people who work in cubicles and don't have to bet their future of their own business on the outcome of this or perhaps many of you have already moved off of windows development and only come here out of habit or are planning on retiring soon or...? I mean if not *here* then *where*? This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
There is no failure only feedback
All I'll say is: WTL FTW! :-)
Paul A .NET developer who now drinks the Ruby and Cocoa Koolaid.
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Not attempting to be snide: All of your "It's not nothing . . ." remarks are beautiful melodies to my ears. This from an 'old timer' who uses C++/JavaScript/php - and seriously resents when a website say I must download Silverlight to view it (I haven't and won't). Now, I do dabble in C#, but that's because of two factors:
- Microsoft has been very negligent with documentation/examples/etc. in C++, along with not bothering to include support for LINQ, etc.
- Those around who previously are using 'high level' languages (e.g., Visual FoxPro) have enough of their hands full with C#, let alone actually knowing what they're doing by using C++.
Indeed, if I didn't know better, I'd imagine MS is actually making the right decisions for a change. Clearly, you do not.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
Hmm. Do you resent and refuse to download Java, too? The latest version of your browser? I won't be unhappy when Flash goes away, but mainly because people mostly use it to do annoying things and to do things to which Flash is not well-suited. But generally, I'm not sure why it should engender resentment to have to install a framework in order to make use of an application that works on that framework. Ultimately any platform you build on will have to be installed by someone in order to use your application, and any document you create will require someone to install something capable of viewing that type of document, down to native applications needing some particular OS and text readers that can interpret your encoding.
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Hmm. Do you resent and refuse to download Java, too? The latest version of your browser? I won't be unhappy when Flash goes away, but mainly because people mostly use it to do annoying things and to do things to which Flash is not well-suited. But generally, I'm not sure why it should engender resentment to have to install a framework in order to make use of an application that works on that framework. Ultimately any platform you build on will have to be installed by someone in order to use your application, and any document you create will require someone to install something capable of viewing that type of document, down to native applications needing some particular OS and text readers that can interpret your encoding.
You need to look at these application and the context in which they are offered. Java is platform-independent, free (as is Silverlight), and my browsers all have a facility to disable it if I choose. As for latest versions of browsers? I primarily use Seamonkey - and have not updated to the latest version because it messes up a feature I like in the current version (cookie/popup/etc. handling is extremely straight forward). As for IE? I only keep it around to test webpages I create for reasonably compatibility, but with FireFox the primary target. Firefox is available for all OS (vs. IE) and tries to play well with others. I resent being told I have to change my computer to visit a particular website -> (1) it's my F#(&#(&#in' computer and (2) if you create a website you should cater to as wide an audience as possible. However, I thought about your preposition (following 'Ultimately . . .'). From the above, you can tell I don't find it acceptable. Let's just keep that dropping back to more and more primitive levels notion going - for after all, we are (mostly) just humans, no different than other mammals, or for that matter the other terrestrial life forms: carbon based structures which are little more than cell clusters (bags of water), and are of no real consequence. SO why bother opposing anything. Ultimately, we're all just worm-bait on the hoof. However, before the little beasties feast upon me me, I'll pretend to have the dignity of self-determination. Doubtless there will be some battles I may lose, but in the doughnut of life I prefer to consider the cake and not concentrate on the hole. On to the next battle. Others may choose their battles differently.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010