Resigning!
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I see John's point, but I see your point, too. And frankly, it's your job, if you are unhappy for whatever reason, you can leave and find a new job.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson My comedy.
That was exactly what I'm doing right now. However it is always a pity, especially when you had all the best intentions and once you invested a lot of energy. Starting all over again, after only 4 months, is not the most pleasantful thing.
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I see your point John, and I certainly agree on some of these points, but this was not an must do request, I was just trying to confirm the management's attitude. This is a really disappointing software company and if this was the only problem, I would be ashamed to write about it. I am still quite young and inexperienced, but I really feel miserable and I invested a way to much energy already in here. That was only one example on how are usually replays from the management. Any I was expecting a bit of psychological support from my virtual colleagues from CP! :) However even your point of view is constructive so it is also welcome. Cheers!
Take it from someone who's been there, either accept things as they are there or move on! I'd move on. It's clear the company doesn't value you. On another note: John's right, if the company won't pay for training get it on your own and then ask for a raise or move on to somewhere where your skills and training are valued.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
Well it is about the time! After a couple of months living in the code of shame I decided to resign! Today's email from the IT manager left me speechless! When a job of your dreams (programming) get's to be the worst nightmare, it is about the time to change. I feel like I lost all of my self confidence and the confidence in my knowledge, and I need to rebuild all this up! Any suggestion? I was trying in many ways to get out of this situation and as last thing I asked my manager for a 5 days training and preparation for getting the MCTS later the MCPD, I got the following answer:
"There are sufficient online resources that provide basic level training, just try: Google-> "WebPart Tutorial" (I'm feeling lucky), brings a nice tutorial for this."I agree, it is not a rocket science, and nothing that I could not do with a self study, but it was an action done in order to stimulate the environment, but I did not expected an answer as this! I lost so much energy trying to change things in here that I didn't yet finished two very nice and curios article for CP that I have in the pipe. Am I wrong in my decisions? P.S. Can somebody explain me what the WebPart Tutorial has to do with exams 70-573 and 70-576 and general knowledge on Sharepoint?Your IT manager is right. Five days of training is nothing: do a few hours per night on your own time and consider it knowledge added to your toolbox and extra marketability on your CV. I have to deal with this sort of thing every day. Being the go-to guy in my company, I am constantly floored at how often people don't take their own initiative to search out and take advantage of the resources that are already out there for free. Programmers (even junior ones) should be expected to do this first before requesting help from their bosses. Depending on my mood, sometimes I just copy their questions verbatim from IM, paste into google, and link them the first search result (to smiles and thanks all around). It's sad, really.
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I've never received paid training in any of my jobs over the last 5-6 years.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson My comedy.
I have been on probably close to a dozen technical training courses over my career as a developer, 10 years now I think. Shit I'm getting old. I am not sure how much use most of them have been to my skill or the job I do. They do look good on a CV though, in the most part. I think much of the problem is that a lot of courses are run for the sake of running courses, the companies providing them make money by getting people to sit them. They are interested in getting people on their courses, the companies sending people are interested in ticking boxes for training and 'investing in people'. Consequently a lot of those actually delivering the content in courses are not very good at it. Also I find that you go on courses when scheduled, and they do not fit in with work, and you either go and learn something they want you to use but the opportunity keeps getting put off so you never actually us it, or the content delivery is supposed to be around something you are currently doing, but not quite enough of a fit that just doing the work is a better aid to learning. As an employee however they are great. Particularly when you get to stop away with a couple of others, hotel and food on expenses. It is like a little paid holiday with a few hours a day spent mucking around with some code that doesn't matter and is tailored to the stupidest person who may attend so is in no way taxing or time consuming.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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When I started it was quite a small company, and the IT Director had been there since the start, owned part of it, was seriously smart, had designed the system the company used and that we worked on, and most crucially was a developer himself. He understood developers, and he looked after us, we reported directly to him. As the company grew, the IT department grew, it was no longer feasible for everyone to report directly to him, he had more pressing 'business' duties. The bloke they made manager got the job by having been there the longest, but was an incredibly weak person. But it had little noticeable effect, not really. Then there was a sale of the company, IT Director sold out and made his millions, and drove off in his brand new Maserati, and who can blame him. The new IT Director (it was now a job title rather than an actual directorship) was far less experienced, relatively new to the company, but crucially not from a programming background. He was a networking / Linux guy. At this point a strong development manager became essential, and we most definitely did not have one. Things spiraled downwards from there on.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
There was no one particular point that made it made it bad, it was lots of little steps. As the department grew it was deemed that they needed to insert an extra two levels of management between me and the Director of Development. Shall we say that our outlooks were rather different and while one of them was an experienced, thought week, dev turned manager. The other was a weak chinned streak of p with all the charm of dysentry, the social skills of an autistic camelion and the dress sense of a blind tramp.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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Your IT manager is right. Five days of training is nothing: do a few hours per night on your own time and consider it knowledge added to your toolbox and extra marketability on your CV. I have to deal with this sort of thing every day. Being the go-to guy in my company, I am constantly floored at how often people don't take their own initiative to search out and take advantage of the resources that are already out there for free. Programmers (even junior ones) should be expected to do this first before requesting help from their bosses. Depending on my mood, sometimes I just copy their questions verbatim from IM, paste into google, and link them the first search result (to smiles and thanks all around). It's sad, really.
Well I'm the one that believes in that. You can learn fabulous stuff at example HERE. CP is for that, learning and confronting your self. However that was not the point, just an example. Any I still think that the company should stimulate employees to grow, in different ways.
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Mario Majcica wrote:
Am I wrong in my decisions?
Yes. Stop being a prima-donna, and learn on your own. If your employer won't pay for training, and you really feel the need to get that training, then go on your own dime. It's called "investing in your own career". I'm really kinda tired of everyone feeling entitled to free stuff.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Best answer yet, I've certainly do everything off my own back, nowadays new people coming into IT want to be spoon fed.
Software Kinetics Wear a hard hat it's under construction
Metro RSSI wouldn't say OP is new. He's indicated at least 7 years experience and from profile pic he is no kid.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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I wouldn't say OP is new. He's indicated at least 7 years experience and from profile pic he is no kid.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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His problem is not about training either, which is all most seem to have seized upon.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
At least somebody got to my core problem! Who gives a f* about the certification or the training? My problem is much much bigger.
The fact about the training was just one examplethat I feel allowed to post, it was mine probing against management to get sureabout their good will and interest, not less consideration. I was searching for the comfort and a tip an I got back lot's of bad words. :) Well that's also constructive! Have a nice evening! -
That was exactly what I'm doing right now. However it is always a pity, especially when you had all the best intentions and once you invested a lot of energy. Starting all over again, after only 4 months, is not the most pleasantful thing.
You've only been there 4 months? Oh boy, that's going to look good on the ol' CV. :rolleyes:
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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You've only been there 4 months? Oh boy, that's going to look good on the ol' CV. :rolleyes:
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
That was also mine concern! :( Any suggestion?
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That was also mine concern! :( Any suggestion?
Not much you can do until you get to interview, but just be honest. You thought it was going to be one thing, and it turned out to be another. The difficult thing is not coming across as a whiney git who can't take the job. So don't complain about anything, come up with something short and concise, and that shows you have tried to find ways to improve the situation.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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That was also mine concern! :( Any suggestion?
Not really. You're going to have to be honest about this one. While I have interviewed people who've had short terms at a place, in general they have all come across as expecting too much too quickly. You're going to have to be careful.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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Mario Majcica wrote:
Am I wrong in my decisions?
Yes. Stop being a prima-donna, and learn on your own. If your employer won't pay for training, and you really feel the need to get that training, then go on your own dime. It's called "investing in your own career". I'm really kinda tired of everyone feeling entitled to free stuff.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997I cannot believe the SOB asked for training resources. He should be beaten about the head and left for dead in an alley. What kind of socio-path expects his employer to actually invest in the workforce? Even if technology refreshes every 18 months there is no excuse not to be up on the latest changes. The SOB should realize that is why we have evenings and weekends - so prima donnas can freakin' "invest in their careers". I know if I had an employee walk into my office and ask for some help in improving his skills he wouldn't have to resign - I'd fire his @$$ on the spot. Hell, I might even shoot the SOB. I'd shoot him and then laugh because obviously he doens't know how to use google. Freakin' freeloaders. Yeah.
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I cannot believe the SOB asked for training resources. He should be beaten about the head and left for dead in an alley. What kind of socio-path expects his employer to actually invest in the workforce? Even if technology refreshes every 18 months there is no excuse not to be up on the latest changes. The SOB should realize that is why we have evenings and weekends - so prima donnas can freakin' "invest in their careers". I know if I had an employee walk into my office and ask for some help in improving his skills he wouldn't have to resign - I'd fire his @$$ on the spot. Hell, I might even shoot the SOB. I'd shoot him and then laugh because obviously he doens't know how to use google. Freakin' freeloaders. Yeah.
I'd sit here and keep hitting +5 if it would have any effect. :laugh:
Pete
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Well it is about the time! After a couple of months living in the code of shame I decided to resign! Today's email from the IT manager left me speechless! When a job of your dreams (programming) get's to be the worst nightmare, it is about the time to change. I feel like I lost all of my self confidence and the confidence in my knowledge, and I need to rebuild all this up! Any suggestion? I was trying in many ways to get out of this situation and as last thing I asked my manager for a 5 days training and preparation for getting the MCTS later the MCPD, I got the following answer:
"There are sufficient online resources that provide basic level training, just try: Google-> "WebPart Tutorial" (I'm feeling lucky), brings a nice tutorial for this."I agree, it is not a rocket science, and nothing that I could not do with a self study, but it was an action done in order to stimulate the environment, but I did not expected an answer as this! I lost so much energy trying to change things in here that I didn't yet finished two very nice and curios article for CP that I have in the pipe. Am I wrong in my decisions? P.S. Can somebody explain me what the WebPart Tutorial has to do with exams 70-573 and 70-576 and general knowledge on Sharepoint?Be happy you don't work for me; I'd fire you. Seriously. Being an engineer means you learn things on the job. That's why you get paid a relatively good salary. I've been around long enough to know that most training classes are a giant waste of time and I'm not interested in paying you to get your MCTS, MCPD or whatever useless piece of paper you think proves anything. I'm also not paying you to write articles for code project or any other web site. What you would learn in this practical environment is worth way more than some silly certificates. To put it another way; say I have the resumes for two developers in front of me. One has a list of certificates and degrees about how to do something. The other developer explains actually doing them. Which one do you think I'm going to hire?
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I cannot believe the SOB asked for training resources. He should be beaten about the head and left for dead in an alley. What kind of socio-path expects his employer to actually invest in the workforce? Even if technology refreshes every 18 months there is no excuse not to be up on the latest changes. The SOB should realize that is why we have evenings and weekends - so prima donnas can freakin' "invest in their careers". I know if I had an employee walk into my office and ask for some help in improving his skills he wouldn't have to resign - I'd fire his @$$ on the spot. Hell, I might even shoot the SOB. I'd shoot him and then laugh because obviously he doens't know how to use google. Freakin' freeloaders. Yeah.
If it was something that could be easily found by Googling, he should be fired. Or do you prefer hiring "need help plz" types of engineers?
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Take it from someone who's been there, either accept things as they are there or move on! I'd move on. It's clear the company doesn't value you. On another note: John's right, if the company won't pay for training get it on your own and then ask for a raise or move on to somewhere where your skills and training are valued.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von BraunGive me a break. He's asking for training for something brain dead simple stupid. His boss just wants him to do a damn job and clearly said he can figure it out on the fly. Did you not understand the sarcasm? The OP asked the equivalent of "need help plz". If the company doesn't value him, it's because they see someone who is wasting their time. To put it another way; when I had to implement reading PNG files in CE 6.0, I didn't run to my boss and ask for 5 days training. I did a little research, wrote some code and figured it out. That's what engineers are paid to do!
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Be happy you don't work for me; I'd fire you. Seriously. Being an engineer means you learn things on the job. That's why you get paid a relatively good salary. I've been around long enough to know that most training classes are a giant waste of time and I'm not interested in paying you to get your MCTS, MCPD or whatever useless piece of paper you think proves anything. I'm also not paying you to write articles for code project or any other web site. What you would learn in this practical environment is worth way more than some silly certificates. To put it another way; say I have the resumes for two developers in front of me. One has a list of certificates and degrees about how to do something. The other developer explains actually doing them. Which one do you think I'm going to hire?
Great to know that. A detail, it's not only if someone did something, but how he did it. I saw people claiming to be a part of abc big deal projects, but actually, coded bullshit. However, If you read some of the treads, you will see that was not the core of my problems-complains. Cheers!
