What Would You Consider Minimum Requirements For A Laptop?
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A netbook is probably a good choice for you youngsters, but I can't see the screen without squinting, and the keys are far too small.
Will Rogers never met me.
Screen-wise you are correct(although the touchpad does allow me to use gestures to increase teh screen magnification) - keyboard-wise I just measured Q to p against my standard keyboard and the netbook is only around 1/2" shorter...
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
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With the exception of C# development and SQL Server Express, you've got everything that my wife does with a netbook. The battery life on these things is pretty incredible too. Possibly just ensuring you got maximum memory in the thing may make up for the programming you wish to do. :)
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra] posting about Crystal Reports here is like discussing gay marriage on a catholic church’s website.[Nishant Sivakumar]
As I mentioned in other replies, a netbook is probably a good solution, but they're much too small for me to use comfortably. But since I'm not planning on it being my primary machine, and speed doesn't much matter when you have nothing better to do than stare at the walls of your hotel room, I'm wondering if an i3 is sufficient. Laptops equipped with them are fairly cheap, and as far as I know, the i5 and i7 just add capabilities that I don't need, like enhanced multimedia stuff.
Will Rogers never met me.
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I have a Dell XPS, Core i5, 4GB memory, 500GB HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium. It does all the things you mention above, and also C++ (VS 2010 Express) and Java (Eclipse) development, plus a Virtual partition on which I run Windows XP from time to time, for remote connection to Linux systems. Standard battery lasts 3-4 hours on average, but since I do very little travelling that's not a problem.
Unrequited desire is character building. OriginalGriff
Samsung has an i5 system with a 15" screen at Amazon, with much the same specs, but hosting Win7Pro. For $479 it seems too good to be true, and I honestly don't know what the quality might be. I have a Samsung phone, and a Samsung TV, and both are excellent, but still I waffle...
Will Rogers never met me.
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AFAIK the Windows Home version doesn’t include IIS, so if you’re planning to do web development with ASP it’s probably not for you. For the desktop development I don’t know any differences or restrictions with the pro version. The processor is not so important for what you are going to use the laptop, but you have to go for 4 GB RAM, just to be on the save side. In the moment I have opened VS 2010, few office applications and a browser and the memory usage is well above 2 GB. I also would stay away from the netbooks. They are good for internet backup devices or casual browsing, but the screen is too small for what you want to use it.
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My main concern with Win7 Home Premium is the inability to join a domain. That's unacceptable.
Will Rogers never met me.
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IMO there's very little that win7 pro offers of potential value if you're not joining a domain or building a goxbox (in which case the 16GB ram limit is likely to be a problem). Check out wikipedia's comparison table[^] for details. I'm happy with my C2D's performance running small MSSQL DBs and VS2k10, so I wouldn't rule out an i3 if you're trying to pinch pennies. That said an i5 can turbo about 50% faster so it's not a bad value for an upgrade. I'd skip an i7 quad for a sub $1k system; and for light dev you won't miss it. I would go for 8GB of ram (might be cheaper to newegg it instead of upgrading from dell); VS 2k10 is a bloated pig and I can only assume VS2k12(13??) will be even worse. You can run one copy of it in 4gb fine; but 8 gives a lot more headroom for multi-tasking. If you can find it and aren't resolution limited by your eyes I'd recommend a 1600x900 display on a 14+, and a 1080p on a 17" (and maybe a 15" too); programming efficiency runs on lines of code visible at one time. 720p = fail. HD capacity is a who cares item unless you're willing to drop a few hundred on an SDD, in which case buy as much as you can afford.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
Great advice, Dan... Thank you! I think I'm narrowing it down to an i5, 15+" screen, 4+GB RAM, and about 300 - 500 GB HDD. All else is gravy, as I can buy the Academic version of Win 7 Pro for about $50 through my school, and the license they've negotiated never expires, even after graduation.
Will Rogers never met me.
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You can definitely get a laptop to meet your needs. I wouldn't worry too much about the specs on the processor and memory. Memory is about the only thing to upgrade on a laptop, so it's fine to skimp out when you buy the system, and either buy from a cheaper source or upgrade later. I'd nail down what you want for display and weight more than anything. After that would be a fast enough HDD. If you can deal with a smaller drive moving to SSD will make any system fast, plus it saves on weight and durability.
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
I'm thinking the SSD is something I can add later, if I don't like the SATA stock drive. Although the i3 is probably good enough for what I want to do, upgrading to i5 isn't too expensive, it seems...
Will Rogers never met me.
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Roger, I needed about the same when I went back to school with mostly the same specifications. I found an HP laptop at Sam's Club for $300 that came with a printer. It's served me well and the price was right. I loaded it with student versions of Office, VS, Matlab, etc. and it works fine. YMMV, of course.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
How did you like MATLAB? My school offers it really cheap, and I'm tempted. One of my pet peeves about my industry is that it spends so much time in the past. Calculating tension in a power line is still a dark art, and there is no equation one can apply to determine how far the low point of a span will sag, given a value of tension. The industry standard is to use a program called SAG10 to calculate the tension, and they don't even measure it directly; linemen whack the line with a stick and use a stopwatch to see how long it takes for the reflected whack to return to their fingers! Crikey! There's got to be a better, more exact way, and I think that finite element analysis is the right way to approach the problem. Conductor data is published, including weight per foot and Young's Modulus, and I'm sure it's possible to calculate within the accuracy of the supplied conductor data. MATLAB seems like the right tool to do the job, but I've never played with it and wonder how it would integrate into an application like this, which I envision as being heavily dependent on recursion - a linear algebra problem, essentially, with constraints. Have you applied it in any such problems?
Will Rogers never met me.
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Since you are travelling a lot and not interested in gaming/3d stuff. I will suggest you Dell Vostro v131[^]. (~ $700.00) It's a decent laptop with looooooong battery life (around 8 hours, and now it is user replacable) and a core i3 processor with enough RAM (get al-least 4GB). and it's not a netbook. plus it got style + nice build quality. :) and for reading books, I will strongly suggest you to get Kindle[^] (it's just around $110.00 now) if you care about your eyes (which costs more than $110.00). ;) Before you decide to go with the netbooks, you should try typing on that keyboard (and if you think you will get used to it, try typing on regular keyboard afterwards :-D ). plus you will get a screen with infinite scroll bars... and get Windows 7 Home premium, I dont think you will miss anything (unless you want to join active directory and want to use bitlocker)... it now has IIS also (which is getting optional now a days since we have IIS Express). ---- and if you dont want to spend this much money and if you are happy with smaller screen. then nothing beats Thinkpad x120e[^], That AMD Fusion APU has enough power to run day to day apps smoothly.
modified on Wednesday, September 14, 2011 2:39 PM
I checked out the Vostro today, and it's only got a 14" screen. That would be a huge drawback. I know the step from 14" to 15.6" is small, but it makes a huge difference in readability. I also checked out a Kindle, but with a 9" screen it's about as useful as my phone for reading books. I did download the free Kindle Reader app last night, and it's great on a Windows 7 machine. Clear, uncluttered, and very user friendly - I'm impressed! But the device? No way... I don't mind the weight penalty for a larger screen, and if they ever want to offer a 15" inch Kindle, I'm in. But I'm old, and eye strain is nothing to joke about. It hurts, and trying to focus for hours on a tiny screen makes it hard to see the room around you for about ten minutes, until the eye muscles recover from the strain and can refocus. There's no way in hell I'd consider a netbook, except perhaps as a gift, to someone much younger, or who's only interested in viewing naughty pictures.
Will Rogers never met me.
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If you're on the road, it might be important to check the battery life and related hardware (storage in particular) to optimize batteries. Buying a laptop today, I'd get a smaller solid-state drive.
Watched code never compiles.
Being on the road isn't so much of an issue, as I'd only be using it in a hotel room which, presumably, has power outlets. Most these days even have WiFi, though a lot of them charge $10 a night for access. All of them I've stayed at recently had wired access for free, and it's almost always faster than WiFi; it just limits roaming to the length of the cable you brought along. The SSD is a good idea, but I think expanding the RAM is a better performance enhancer, in most cases.
Will Rogers never met me.
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I have a Gateway with an i5 processor, some huge amount of disk space I'm only using 30% of, and 4GB RAM with W7 Home Premium. I use it almost constantly for heavy duty development: Visual Studio 8 and 9, SQL Server, Oracle Personal Edition, various tools, etc. My only complaint is that I wish it had an illuminated keyboard. Otherwise, the machine is delightful. Marc
That sounds appealing, Marc. I didn't realize that Gateway was still in business. Are they likely to remain in business, in your opinion? I've seen some tempting pricing in the HP line lately, but since they've already announced that they don't intend to stay on the PC business, I've no intention of buying anything they have to offer.
Will Rogers never met me.
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Just get yourself a netbook, unless you really want a bigger screen. Your list about sums up what I use mine for, and it's just an Intel Atom with 2 GB ram. (Of course, mine also cost $500 but that's because I got one with a touchscreen that rotates so I can also use it as a tablet...). Just remember, if you get a netbook you may need an external CD drive. You probably won't miss it though.
On the contrary, I find a netbook extremely limiting. I can't see the screen without straining, and the keys are too small for my fat fingers to hit reliably. I probably can get by with what you suggest, but I won't like it a bit... Thanks for the thoughts, tho...
Will Rogers never met me.
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What environment do you want to use it in? For tough use, you may want to look at one of the ruggedized Dell or Panasonic laptops. I have heard good things about both, but have no personal experience.
Best wishes, Hans
I'd prefer to use it while floating in the hotel jacuzzi, surrounded by beautiful local women who want to rip my shorts off and have their evil ways with me in the tub, but it's painfully obvious to me at my advanced age that it is far more likely that I'll be using it in my lonely hotel room, sucking on a glass of scotch and wondering where it all went wrong in my life... So, a ruggedized system is probably not worth the extra money at this point.:~ I'll let you know if that changes, tho. :)
Will Rogers never met me.
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Samsung has an i5 system with a 15" screen at Amazon, with much the same specs, but hosting Win7Pro. For $479 it seems too good to be true, and I honestly don't know what the quality might be. I have a Samsung phone, and a Samsung TV, and both are excellent, but still I waffle...
Will Rogers never met me.
Roger Wright wrote:
I honestly don't know what the quality might be.
Always the difficulty. I buy Dell because I have always found them reliable, and got a head start when our company gave us all Dell laptops to replace the (poorer quality) Toshibas.
Unrequited desire is character building. OriginalGriff
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That sounds appealing, Marc. I didn't realize that Gateway was still in business. Are they likely to remain in business, in your opinion? I've seen some tempting pricing in the HP line lately, but since they've already announced that they don't intend to stay on the PC business, I've no intention of buying anything they have to offer.
Will Rogers never met me.
Roger Wright wrote:
That sounds appealing, Marc. I didn't realize that Gateway was still in business. Are they likely to remain in business, in your opinion?
I think so. I was on a business trip out to CA where there was a Fry's, and bought it there. My associate, BTW, a few months later bought this monster Toshiba, illuminated keyboard, something like 16GB RAM, terabyte drive, huge screen, etc., and it wasn't that much more (less than twice) what I paid for. Of course, the thing is a monster, and I wanted something I could be comfortable using on an airplane and lightweight to carry around. One recommendation - try out the keyboard. One thing I don't like is that the touchpad is off-center, so my left palm is constantly resting on it, causing all sorts of chaos. I've had to learn a different posture for my left hand (ok, go ahead, make your puns!) and actually prefer using a mouse and turning the pad off. I also like that it has a separate numeric / cursor pad, as I like using the cursor keys on the numeric keypad rather than the "inverted T" cursor keys--never got used to those. Anyways, let me know what you end up getting! Marc
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That sounds appealing, Marc. I didn't realize that Gateway was still in business. Are they likely to remain in business, in your opinion? I've seen some tempting pricing in the HP line lately, but since they've already announced that they don't intend to stay on the PC business, I've no intention of buying anything they have to offer.
Will Rogers never met me.
Roger Wright wrote:
I didn't realize that Gateway was still in business.
They're just an Acer brand now. Careful buying one; Leckey might borrow one of JSOPs guns and track you down. :doh:
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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Good points - Thanks! I definitely want Win7Pro - being able to join my domain is probably going to be handy. I looked at the Vostro, and it's a nice machine. But I don't think I could get much done on a 14" screen.
Will Rogers never met me.
14" screen may be OK, but don't go for anything less than a 1600x900 resolution if this notebook would be your main "development computer". I've got a (rather old now) 15.6" HP ProBook with 1680x1050 resolution for main development work and a new 14" Toshiba Portege R700 with 1366x768 resolution for business trips (I travel a lot). What a difference! The smaller 14" 1366x768 notebook is a pleasure to travel with, but you lose a really serious amount of screen estate on it! You will definitely feel the difference in VS, SSMS etc. If possible, go for the highest resolution you can find/afford and possibly for biggest screen size you are ready to walk/travel with. And yeah, today's 18" laptops are good what I call "flyswatters" :-D.
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I'm considering buying a laptop, primarily because I need to be able to do schoolwork anywhere, even when travelling for work. I haven't a clue what to get, though I know I don't want to spend a ton for a premium machine with features I'll never need. My expected uses would include: Checking into the online school features Reading online and locally stored books in pdf and Kindle form Composing homework assignments in Word and Excel Occasional C# development, and web stuff SQL server express access General web surfing and email checking/composing Accessing my home network from around the house Looking for naughty pictures on the 'net from my hotel room No gaming, no 3D rendering, scratch-n-sniff interface not required. Key things that worry me are lack of functionality in Windows 7 Home Premium (I don't know what it's lacking), small memory available, i3 vs i5 vs i7 capabilities, and generally what to expect. I can get a decent Dell with an i3, 320GB HDD, 3 GB RAM, and Win7 Home Premium for under $500, but will it be something I can use effectively, or will I be regreting it in 6 months? What would you look for, and why?
Will Rogers never met me.
My personal choice recently was a Lenovo Thinkpad T520. I was able to get a base model from Provantage that currently retails for $838. This included an i5, 4GB RAM, Win 7 Pro, and the stock Intel graphics for 1366x768. This is a 15" notebook that is easily upgradeable, at purchase or later, and still has some of that solid Thinkpad DNA in it. My criteria were pretty similar to yours, and it performs well for these - maybe grab another 4GB for ~$30 to make it ideal. My eyes prefer 1366x as opposed to 1600x, and I know I can always use an external monitor. The keyboard is nice, and it has the thinkpoint if you're into that. And it has a quiet business feel that I prefer to the shiny consumer crap a lot of laptops have. I did look at the Dell Latitude and HP business models, and after checking out my wife's Latitude E6520 I thought they were pretty much the same - and Dell is so variable in quality, I felt Lenovo had the better reputation. A lot of people still recommend the Thinkpads despite the claim that they've gone downhill since the Lenovo purchase. If you want any more details about my experiences, you can DM me, but my only regret is that I'm not using the MacBook Pro I was - it just blows any other laptop away in build quality. Hope this helps!
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I'm considering buying a laptop, primarily because I need to be able to do schoolwork anywhere, even when travelling for work. I haven't a clue what to get, though I know I don't want to spend a ton for a premium machine with features I'll never need. My expected uses would include: Checking into the online school features Reading online and locally stored books in pdf and Kindle form Composing homework assignments in Word and Excel Occasional C# development, and web stuff SQL server express access General web surfing and email checking/composing Accessing my home network from around the house Looking for naughty pictures on the 'net from my hotel room No gaming, no 3D rendering, scratch-n-sniff interface not required. Key things that worry me are lack of functionality in Windows 7 Home Premium (I don't know what it's lacking), small memory available, i3 vs i5 vs i7 capabilities, and generally what to expect. I can get a decent Dell with an i3, 320GB HDD, 3 GB RAM, and Win7 Home Premium for under $500, but will it be something I can use effectively, or will I be regreting it in 6 months? What would you look for, and why?
Will Rogers never met me.
Honestly, any of the i# processors should suit your intended uses just fine. I personally would look for a laptop in the $450-800 range. Much lower and it won't last as long as you want, and odds are if you spend any higher you either won't use the extra features, or it will end up breaking. I'd rather buy a $500 laptop every 4 years than try to make a $1000 laptop last 8. I personally wouldn't go with a laptop with 3GB of RAM as it probably ships with a 32-bit OS and thus severely limits its upgradability. If this link works, it will take you to a product search that shows what I think are decent choices. So basically here's what I recommend: Processor: Intel i# or AMD Phenom - Both of these have a large cache which is arguably more important than their speed. They both have strong enough integrated graphics for all of the tasks you have listed. If you compile a lot of code on this, you'll want a quad core. The i# will probably have better performance and battery life. Memory: >4GB - Ensure that you get a 64-bit OS. 4GB is the norm right now, so anything less will feel light in years to come Hard drive: This all depends on what you're doing. If you stick with one OS, don't run virtual machines, and don't carry around your entire music and video collection with you, then 320GB is enough. If you do any of the above, you might want at least 500GB. A second hard drive bay is a nice feature to see in laptops The main difference between Win7HP and Win7Pro is that Pro can do XP Mode, HP can't http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7_editions[^] Now
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I'm considering buying a laptop, primarily because I need to be able to do schoolwork anywhere, even when travelling for work. I haven't a clue what to get, though I know I don't want to spend a ton for a premium machine with features I'll never need. My expected uses would include: Checking into the online school features Reading online and locally stored books in pdf and Kindle form Composing homework assignments in Word and Excel Occasional C# development, and web stuff SQL server express access General web surfing and email checking/composing Accessing my home network from around the house Looking for naughty pictures on the 'net from my hotel room No gaming, no 3D rendering, scratch-n-sniff interface not required. Key things that worry me are lack of functionality in Windows 7 Home Premium (I don't know what it's lacking), small memory available, i3 vs i5 vs i7 capabilities, and generally what to expect. I can get a decent Dell with an i3, 320GB HDD, 3 GB RAM, and Win7 Home Premium for under $500, but will it be something I can use effectively, or will I be regreting it in 6 months? What would you look for, and why?
Will Rogers never met me.
Practically any laptop you can get will do all this. Any of the windows OSs will do what you need. You'll be replacing the laptop in 2-3 years anyway, so don't buy more machine than you might need in that time. Bigger screens, higher res screens, more memory, faster CPU, larger HDD, etc. are all nice, but extra cost for your needs.
We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.
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How did you like MATLAB? My school offers it really cheap, and I'm tempted. One of my pet peeves about my industry is that it spends so much time in the past. Calculating tension in a power line is still a dark art, and there is no equation one can apply to determine how far the low point of a span will sag, given a value of tension. The industry standard is to use a program called SAG10 to calculate the tension, and they don't even measure it directly; linemen whack the line with a stick and use a stopwatch to see how long it takes for the reflected whack to return to their fingers! Crikey! There's got to be a better, more exact way, and I think that finite element analysis is the right way to approach the problem. Conductor data is published, including weight per foot and Young's Modulus, and I'm sure it's possible to calculate within the accuracy of the supplied conductor data. MATLAB seems like the right tool to do the job, but I've never played with it and wonder how it would integrate into an application like this, which I envision as being heavily dependent on recursion - a linear algebra problem, essentially, with constraints. Have you applied it in any such problems?
Will Rogers never met me.
Roger, to tell the truth I've hardly used Matlab so far. I did some basic matrix operations and inversions with it for a geostatistics class and used it to check some matrix inversion code I wrote in C# for a numerical methods class. Other than that, I haven't used it at all. However, that may change. Apparently we'll be required to write something in either Matlab or Comsol for a transport phenomena class. When that happens, I guess I'll learn at least one of those packages. I did compare notes with people who used Matlab for the numerical methods class (essentially numerical solution of PDE's) and my observation was that it made the problem setup and graphing results easier, but my C# code ran faster and I already had the matrix routines and graphics routines, so C# was easier for me. One observation, which may or may not have to do with Matlab, was my program solutions always converged and I got 6 or 7 digit accuracy, while the Matlab people had less accuracy and more convergence problems. That however, may be mostly due to their expertise, rather than a real function of Matlab. Around here the people who use Matlab, usually don't know how to program in other languages, like C, C++, Fortran, C# or even VB.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software