What's your opinion about H-1B visa in the current economy?
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How many of you (especially American Citizens) support the H-1B Visa in the current economy? Kind of old news, Sun accuser suffers setback [^] Note: I got nothing against Nish(who came to USA on H-1B Visa), even I worked on that visa for a while. :-0 What is H-1B? The H-1B visa program lets skilled foreign workers work in the United States for up to six years. The part of the process, called the labor condition application, or LCA, requires employers to describe the salary that will be paid to a given guest worker and to testify that use of the H-1B won't harm working conditions of a U.S. employee in a comparable work role. Employers don't have to hire the H-1B worker referred to on an LCA, but they must provide notice of the LCA to their existing employees. Kant Sonork-100.28114 Don't :beer: and Drive.
Kant wrote: support the H-1B Visa in the current economy not me. no offense to anyone who comes here looking for work, really. but there are plenty of americans who can fill 90% of the positions. if it's a highly specialized job then i guess there's no problem, but it's silly in poor taste to sponsor mid-level programmers. -c
I'm not the droid you're looking for.
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How many of you (especially American Citizens) support the H-1B Visa in the current economy? Kind of old news, Sun accuser suffers setback [^] Note: I got nothing against Nish(who came to USA on H-1B Visa), even I worked on that visa for a while. :-0 What is H-1B? The H-1B visa program lets skilled foreign workers work in the United States for up to six years. The part of the process, called the labor condition application, or LCA, requires employers to describe the salary that will be paid to a given guest worker and to testify that use of the H-1B won't harm working conditions of a U.S. employee in a comparable work role. Employers don't have to hire the H-1B worker referred to on an LCA, but they must provide notice of the LCA to their existing employees. Kant Sonork-100.28114 Don't :beer: and Drive.
Overall, the H1B visa program is a good idea but needs some modifications. As has been pointed out, H1B employees are supposed to be paid the same as their US/Green Card counterparts. This provision wasn't entirely put in to protect US job holders, but to prevent H1B visa holders from becoming indentured servants. I have written my senators with suggestions on how to tighten up the H1B program. A few key points follow: 1) Enforce the comparable salary rules. 2) H1B visa holds must be laid off before Residents/Green Card holders. 3) H1B visa holders cannot be a sole proprietor or majority partner in a corporation or company, nor a company an H1B visa owns as a partner sponsor his or her own H1B visa. (For those who don't know, one of the current scams is for an H1B visa holder to start a company which does nothing but sponsor H1B visa holders.) 4) A company may not have more H1B visa holders than Residents/Green Card holders. At one time there was a requirement that an H1B visa could only be sponsored if the company could show they couldn't find a comparably skilled resident. This created bizarre ads which were essentially the potential H1B visa holder's resume. I'm not sure I want to go this far, but I do think there needs to be some balance. As for the Sun case, the Judge is clearly incompetent. And wanna bet, Sun has already purged it's backups of the email evidence? But will Sun ever get charged with destroying evidence? Not a chance.
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How many of you (especially American Citizens) support the H-1B Visa in the current economy? Kind of old news, Sun accuser suffers setback [^] Note: I got nothing against Nish(who came to USA on H-1B Visa), even I worked on that visa for a while. :-0 What is H-1B? The H-1B visa program lets skilled foreign workers work in the United States for up to six years. The part of the process, called the labor condition application, or LCA, requires employers to describe the salary that will be paid to a given guest worker and to testify that use of the H-1B won't harm working conditions of a U.S. employee in a comparable work role. Employers don't have to hire the H-1B worker referred to on an LCA, but they must provide notice of the LCA to their existing employees. Kant Sonork-100.28114 Don't :beer: and Drive.
I think that the lead the US has in the global software industry is being eroded. One solution would definitly be to get more H-1B Visa workers working in the US, and the current US workers can be reassigned to elsewhere. What you must consider is, whether it is better for the US overall rather than how it effects a small group of the population who have become technically disabled. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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I think that the lead the US has in the global software industry is being eroded. One solution would definitly be to get more H-1B Visa workers working in the US, and the current US workers can be reassigned to elsewhere. What you must consider is, whether it is better for the US overall rather than how it effects a small group of the population who have become technically disabled. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
Colin Davies wrote: What you must consider is, whether it is better for the US overall rather than how it effects a small group of the population who have become technically disabled. I think if you look around though, you will find many well qualified people out of work, that are not technically disabled. If these people are being passed by for H-1B visa workers who will work for less, I think that erodes our industry more than a batch of techically disabled workers.
Build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a day
Light a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life! -
Colin Davies wrote: What you must consider is, whether it is better for the US overall rather than how it effects a small group of the population who have become technically disabled. I think if you look around though, you will find many well qualified people out of work, that are not technically disabled. If these people are being passed by for H-1B visa workers who will work for less, I think that erodes our industry more than a batch of techically disabled workers.
Build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a day
Light a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life!Paul Watt wrote: I think that erodes our industry more than a batch of techically disabled workers. I agree, but now that the US is entering the free world market place, it becomes more important to think of the global market in any decisions. If employers percieve it is better to pass up qualified US personal for H-1B visa holders, what does this say of the US personal. I suggest it says they are too expensive for their production results on a global basis. When a companies only course of remaing efficient becomes relocating to the developing world like the large shoe makers did, this only worse for the country of origin. Personally I am not a fan of glabalism and the global market idea because of this, and similar reasons, but I don't make the decisions. :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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Paul Watt wrote: I think that erodes our industry more than a batch of techically disabled workers. I agree, but now that the US is entering the free world market place, it becomes more important to think of the global market in any decisions. If employers percieve it is better to pass up qualified US personal for H-1B visa holders, what does this say of the US personal. I suggest it says they are too expensive for their production results on a global basis. When a companies only course of remaing efficient becomes relocating to the developing world like the large shoe makers did, this only worse for the country of origin. Personally I am not a fan of glabalism and the global market idea because of this, and similar reasons, but I don't make the decisions. :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
If this were the common case, I would agree with you. Unfortunately, qualifications are rarely the deciding factor, but rather the cost of the qualifications. When a company is allowed pay an H1-b worker what amounts to survival wages for their location, rather than hire a qualified available resident at the fair market wage, then the practice is fair to no one. "fair on a global basis" is no justification for permitting a practice that borders on indentured servitude at the expense of the community in which a company resides, purely for the benefit of that company. In summary, faily used H1-B could benefit all concerned, used as it too often is today, it only serves to feed xenophobia here.... Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could have thought of them - George Orwell
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OK, I'll bite on this... Professionally, I have a problem with the way that company's treat/utilize H1B's. Specifically as cheap labor. I have witnessed two previous companies paying these folks the bare minimum in favor of hiring U.S. Citizens on more than one occasion. My understanding of the purpose of the H1B is “to pay foreign nationals the "prevailing wage" for the position; foreign workers must be paid at least 95% of the "prevailing wage" for the particular occupation and geographic region.” From what I’ve seen previously, there are instances where a new college grad was being paid 30k and an H1B working along side with several years of experience being paid 95% of 30k. This is not a good situation for employees (H1B or citizens) but a great situation for the companies. There in lies the problem; if a company can maintain a staff of fresh out of college programmers, keeping wages low and augmenting that staff with skilled H1B’s the overall wages for my chosen profession could be stagnant or worse, significantly reduced. Maybe I’m over generalizing this but I know the way many companies “think.” Personally, I do not have an issue with the H1B's. In fact, at my last place of employment I had a chance to work with several Indians, Pai (contact me if your reading this), became a very good friend and on our weekly Wednesday night "group" dinners, he became a regular. One of the saddest days was the last time I saw his smiling face at my going away dinner… I lived overseas for 10 years and still enjoy traveling… I enjoy meeting folks with different cultures. So far, in my career I have had the pleasure of meeting people from Russia, Romania, Ukraine, India and Britain… fun stuff :) Dave "Dak Lozar" Loeser When access is allowed to a member, it said to be accessible. Otherwise, it is inaccessible. - MSDN:C# Programmer's Reference
Why would anyone want to come and work in US for 30k a year? :confused: especially, if there is a family to support. My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers
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If this were the common case, I would agree with you. Unfortunately, qualifications are rarely the deciding factor, but rather the cost of the qualifications. When a company is allowed pay an H1-b worker what amounts to survival wages for their location, rather than hire a qualified available resident at the fair market wage, then the practice is fair to no one. "fair on a global basis" is no justification for permitting a practice that borders on indentured servitude at the expense of the community in which a company resides, purely for the benefit of that company. In summary, faily used H1-B could benefit all concerned, used as it too often is today, it only serves to feed xenophobia here.... Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could have thought of them - George Orwell
but, fair price is what the market offers. The third world offers people at much lower costs, and essentially becomes the fair price. If there is any mechanism to artifically decide this fair price, it is socialism, not capitalism :-D My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers
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but, fair price is what the market offers. The third world offers people at much lower costs, and essentially becomes the fair price. If there is any mechanism to artifically decide this fair price, it is socialism, not capitalism :-D My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers
In the context of a global market you are right. In the context of a local market with restricted access (normal green card holders, non- H1B) allowing a 5% discount for H1B (which is what the H1B allows) is NOT fair market but an artificial mechanism. In addition the H1B laws place some sevcere restrictions on the ability of the holder to change jobs while here, in effect condeming them to "shut up and do the job or go home" Another objection is that this is also unfairnto immigrants who went through the "normal" process (who have the same 5% discount to compete with), as well as to the H1B recipient, who is likely to be unaware of the costs of living in the environment where the job is offered (ask Nish if they warned him about the cost of "studio" apartments in the Mountain View area...). I'm all for competition, but not for allowing firms to take advantage of the unwary. At the same time, I have some difficulty in sympathizing with someone owning a $500,000 house in Silicon Valley who is unwilling to move to the central or Eastern US to take a job at 60% of the pay he used to make in a place where the same house costs less than $160,000... Over time, in a global economy, these things will even out, provided there are not artificial barriers. I see the H1B as an artificial mechanism that is not a fair substitute for more liberal immigration quotas. Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could have thought of them - George Orwell
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Why would anyone want to come and work in US for 30k a year? :confused: especially, if there is a family to support. My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers
Thomas George wrote: Why would anyone want to come and work in US for 30k a year? especially, if there is a family to support. Thomas, I really do not know the reasons why anyone would do such a thing... but... it would seem that you have answered your own question Thomas George wrote: but, fair price is what the market offers. The third world offers people at much lower costs, and essentially becomes the fair price. If there is any mechanism to artifically decide this fair price, it is socialism, not capitalism Dave "Dak Lozar" Loeser When access is allowed to a member, it said to be accessible. Otherwise, it is inaccessible. - MSDN:C# Programmer's Reference
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In the context of a global market you are right. In the context of a local market with restricted access (normal green card holders, non- H1B) allowing a 5% discount for H1B (which is what the H1B allows) is NOT fair market but an artificial mechanism. In addition the H1B laws place some sevcere restrictions on the ability of the holder to change jobs while here, in effect condeming them to "shut up and do the job or go home" Another objection is that this is also unfairnto immigrants who went through the "normal" process (who have the same 5% discount to compete with), as well as to the H1B recipient, who is likely to be unaware of the costs of living in the environment where the job is offered (ask Nish if they warned him about the cost of "studio" apartments in the Mountain View area...). I'm all for competition, but not for allowing firms to take advantage of the unwary. At the same time, I have some difficulty in sympathizing with someone owning a $500,000 house in Silicon Valley who is unwilling to move to the central or Eastern US to take a job at 60% of the pay he used to make in a place where the same house costs less than $160,000... Over time, in a global economy, these things will even out, provided there are not artificial barriers. I see the H1B as an artificial mechanism that is not a fair substitute for more liberal immigration quotas. Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could have thought of them - George Orwell
If you can find another employer to sponsor you, there is no problem in switching jobs on an H1B visa. Anyway, the idea is that US is not treating H1B as immigration - rather as a temporary worker. They obviously do not want people from other countries coming to US and becoming a liability on the social security, when they lose their job. Hence the requirement that someone should sponsor them (in effect take responsibility for paying them some amount that will enable them to live in the US without becoming a liability). If you ask me, it is more to help big businesses find lower cost employees. My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers