First Experiences With "The Lounge"
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I have come to www.codeproject.com for years and find it is a very valuable resource for my work. But until today, I have never that I recall posted anything to "The Lounge". Seeing "The Lounge" and thinking it was a place that may be monitored by a large group of _professional_ software developers, I asked a question. Unfortunately, I did NOT take the time to go read all of the rules associated with The Lounge. In retrospect, that was a mistake. Within seconds of posting my question, I was shocked to receive numerous responses. And all but one were condescending, elitist, and showed a complete lack of any sort of professional conduct or courtesy. In particular, one responder was completely over the top in his unprofessional and attacking response where he accused me of not being able to read, and called my software architecture, of which he knows NOTHING, a crock. Others told me to go read the rules, and even pointed out the rules that I broke. Turns out I DID break rule # 2, but all of these other "professionals" broke rule #1, which states that those commenting in The Lounge should be "respectful". What the unnamed "mugger" in The Lounge and the others SHOULD have done is to simply say "Your question is not appropriate according to the rules of this forum (provide link to rule). You should re-post your question in one of the programming forums where such questions are welcomed.". If that is too much to type, and you see this a lot, then I suggest you just save that text into a text file somewhere so you can cut and paste in a standard, PROFESSIONAL response when people like myself make a mistake. As a software professional that has earned a very good living in this field for over 35 years and frankly has very little time to contribute my experience to forums like this due to the backlog of new development projects in my queue, I do feel some sense of responsibility of contributing back to the software development community as a whole. So I will simply close by saying "Cool your jets folks!"
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Personally I found his post pretty enlightening. Step back and take a look from an outsider's perspective. A mistake has been made, yes, but hands up who is perfect. There are better ways to deal with this. :|
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
:doh:
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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Yeah, you're completely right. Now ease up and don't take it to personal :) Next time you post a question in the appropriate forum and get decent answers. Post jokes/news/whatever in the lounges and also be rewarded for your funniness/cleverness/whateverness.
diverbw wrote:
the unnamed "mugger"
Nagy Vilmos! Might as well nail him to the pillory ;p
diverbw wrote:
PROFESSIONAL response
We're all just people too. Actually in the lounge we may even forget we're programmers. We save that for the programming forums :)
diverbw wrote:
frankly has very little time to contribute my experience to forums like this
From the size of your post it doesn't look like it! Just saying life is to short to get worked up on some reactions in the lounge. P.S. On a side note, I have answered your question below ;)
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
}Naerling wrote:
From the size of your post it doesn't look like it!
:laugh: I was thinking it but didn't want to say it...
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I have come to www.codeproject.com for years and find it is a very valuable resource for my work. But until today, I have never that I recall posted anything to "The Lounge". Seeing "The Lounge" and thinking it was a place that may be monitored by a large group of _professional_ software developers, I asked a question. Unfortunately, I did NOT take the time to go read all of the rules associated with The Lounge. In retrospect, that was a mistake. Within seconds of posting my question, I was shocked to receive numerous responses. And all but one were condescending, elitist, and showed a complete lack of any sort of professional conduct or courtesy. In particular, one responder was completely over the top in his unprofessional and attacking response where he accused me of not being able to read, and called my software architecture, of which he knows NOTHING, a crock. Others told me to go read the rules, and even pointed out the rules that I broke. Turns out I DID break rule # 2, but all of these other "professionals" broke rule #1, which states that those commenting in The Lounge should be "respectful". What the unnamed "mugger" in The Lounge and the others SHOULD have done is to simply say "Your question is not appropriate according to the rules of this forum (provide link to rule). You should re-post your question in one of the programming forums where such questions are welcomed.". If that is too much to type, and you see this a lot, then I suggest you just save that text into a text file somewhere so you can cut and paste in a standard, PROFESSIONAL response when people like myself make a mistake. As a software professional that has earned a very good living in this field for over 35 years and frankly has very little time to contribute my experience to forums like this due to the backlog of new development projects in my queue, I do feel some sense of responsibility of contributing back to the software development community as a whole. So I will simply close by saying "Cool your jets folks!"
Welcome to the Lounge. Here are your thick rubber gloves, here's your helmet. It can get messy. In all seriousness you've raised excellent points though much of the angst is, I think, due to the nature of the Lounge. We know each other so well and are so comfortable with each other that random (and even specific) slap downs are the norm and not in anyway to be considered personal insults. Which doesn't help, of course, if you're new to the Lounge. The warnings are there in bright red but mistakes happen. The problem, as others have pointed out, is that it has happened enough in the lifespan of the Lounge that automatic reflexes kick in. I hope that the civil replies that were made give you hope that there is a balance here and that no harm or disrespect was intended. So, let me ask you a favour: How can we make it easier for new posters in the Lounge to avoid posting programming questions and instead keep the conversation flowing?
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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I have come to www.codeproject.com for years and find it is a very valuable resource for my work. But until today, I have never that I recall posted anything to "The Lounge". Seeing "The Lounge" and thinking it was a place that may be monitored by a large group of _professional_ software developers, I asked a question. Unfortunately, I did NOT take the time to go read all of the rules associated with The Lounge. In retrospect, that was a mistake. Within seconds of posting my question, I was shocked to receive numerous responses. And all but one were condescending, elitist, and showed a complete lack of any sort of professional conduct or courtesy. In particular, one responder was completely over the top in his unprofessional and attacking response where he accused me of not being able to read, and called my software architecture, of which he knows NOTHING, a crock. Others told me to go read the rules, and even pointed out the rules that I broke. Turns out I DID break rule # 2, but all of these other "professionals" broke rule #1, which states that those commenting in The Lounge should be "respectful". What the unnamed "mugger" in The Lounge and the others SHOULD have done is to simply say "Your question is not appropriate according to the rules of this forum (provide link to rule). You should re-post your question in one of the programming forums where such questions are welcomed.". If that is too much to type, and you see this a lot, then I suggest you just save that text into a text file somewhere so you can cut and paste in a standard, PROFESSIONAL response when people like myself make a mistake. As a software professional that has earned a very good living in this field for over 35 years and frankly has very little time to contribute my experience to forums like this due to the backlog of new development projects in my queue, I do feel some sense of responsibility of contributing back to the software development community as a whole. So I will simply close by saying "Cool your jets folks!"
It can be a bit of a shock to the system but as others have said, try (even though that may be difficult) not to take it personally.
diverbw wrote:
he accused me of not being able to read, and called my software architecture, of which he knows NOTHING, a crock.
This is another example of your failing to read things correctly :), although in your annoyance at the replies you received it is understandable. The message you are referring to called Crystal Reports a crock. If you are able to go back and read it again in a slightly calmer frame of mind you will see this.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
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Yeah, you're completely right. Now ease up and don't take it to personal :) Next time you post a question in the appropriate forum and get decent answers. Post jokes/news/whatever in the lounges and also be rewarded for your funniness/cleverness/whateverness.
diverbw wrote:
the unnamed "mugger"
Nagy Vilmos! Might as well nail him to the pillory ;p
diverbw wrote:
PROFESSIONAL response
We're all just people too. Actually in the lounge we may even forget we're programmers. We save that for the programming forums :)
diverbw wrote:
frankly has very little time to contribute my experience to forums like this
From the size of your post it doesn't look like it! Just saying life is to short to get worked up on some reactions in the lounge. P.S. On a side note, I have answered your question below ;)
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
}First of all, I love the code fragment! LOL Oh, I'm not taking any of this personally. Just trying to help promote professionalism in this industry. A number of the responses have indicated that I should lighten up and not take things personally, and to view it from the viewpoint of those that are regular contributors to The Lounge. This is sort of like a restaurant owner suggesting to a first time patron that he should have not expected good professional service from the wait staff because if the person knew them, he would understand. A completely true statement, but one that is likely to ensure that the first visit to the restaurant is the last visit. Forums like The Lounge are very much professional forums and should be treated as such. And the words you say in these forums has a VERY long life, and CAN come back to bite you! This is exactly why I very seldom let someone I know from my business world be a friend on Facebook, where I let down my hair. And I never let my personal jokes, wise cracks, etc. show up on linkedin.com, so as not to tarnish my professional appearance.
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Welcome to the Lounge. Here are your thick rubber gloves, here's your helmet. It can get messy. In all seriousness you've raised excellent points though much of the angst is, I think, due to the nature of the Lounge. We know each other so well and are so comfortable with each other that random (and even specific) slap downs are the norm and not in anyway to be considered personal insults. Which doesn't help, of course, if you're new to the Lounge. The warnings are there in bright red but mistakes happen. The problem, as others have pointed out, is that it has happened enough in the lifespan of the Lounge that automatic reflexes kick in. I hope that the civil replies that were made give you hope that there is a balance here and that no harm or disrespect was intended. So, let me ask you a favour: How can we make it easier for new posters in the Lounge to avoid posting programming questions and instead keep the conversation flowing?
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
How can we make it easier for new posters in the Lounge to avoid posting programming questions
Perhaps some warning or instruction could be posted in large colourful letters at the top of the page, would that help?
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
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First of all, I love the code fragment! LOL Oh, I'm not taking any of this personally. Just trying to help promote professionalism in this industry. A number of the responses have indicated that I should lighten up and not take things personally, and to view it from the viewpoint of those that are regular contributors to The Lounge. This is sort of like a restaurant owner suggesting to a first time patron that he should have not expected good professional service from the wait staff because if the person knew them, he would understand. A completely true statement, but one that is likely to ensure that the first visit to the restaurant is the last visit. Forums like The Lounge are very much professional forums and should be treated as such. And the words you say in these forums has a VERY long life, and CAN come back to bite you! This is exactly why I very seldom let someone I know from my business world be a friend on Facebook, where I let down my hair. And I never let my personal jokes, wise cracks, etc. show up on linkedin.com, so as not to tarnish my professional appearance.
That's just it... the lounge is not meant to be somewhere to "be professional"... it's more like Facebook than LinkedIn. IT IS a place where jokes and wise-cracks are acceptable. If you don't like that, then don't visit the lounge. You can still browse the rest of the site and you won't miss anything. This is just a hangout spot (hence the name) to chat.
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Welcome to the Lounge. Here are your thick rubber gloves, here's your helmet. It can get messy. In all seriousness you've raised excellent points though much of the angst is, I think, due to the nature of the Lounge. We know each other so well and are so comfortable with each other that random (and even specific) slap downs are the norm and not in anyway to be considered personal insults. Which doesn't help, of course, if you're new to the Lounge. The warnings are there in bright red but mistakes happen. The problem, as others have pointed out, is that it has happened enough in the lifespan of the Lounge that automatic reflexes kick in. I hope that the civil replies that were made give you hope that there is a balance here and that no harm or disrespect was intended. So, let me ask you a favour: How can we make it easier for new posters in the Lounge to avoid posting programming questions and instead keep the conversation flowing?
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
How can we make it easier for new posters in the Lounge to avoid posting programming questions and instead keep the conversation flowing?
Over 90% of the forums here are technical. And the site gets 100s of new posts a day. I'd say there are about 4-5 incidents a week where a programming question is posted in the Lounge. So what's the big deal there? Given the site stats, that's a very low ratio. It will take a few seconds for a moderator/staff member to move it to the right forum. But unfortunately many of the most active guys here can't resist making a rude response within minutes of an off-topic thread. It's very easy to say people need to be thick-skinned and all that, but is that the image this site wants to portray? That people need to be prepared to be insulted and abused if they are new here and can't fight back? If this sort of things continues to exist here, it may be in the site's best interest to shut down the Lounge. It's giving you a bad name, Chris. Remembering Shog's words from a few years ago, the Soapbox is not CP's sole a-hole anymore, the Lounge is not far behind.
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com You've gotta read this : Using lambdas - C++ vs. C# vs. C++/CX vs. C++/CLI
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Chris Maunder wrote:
How can we make it easier for new posters in the Lounge to avoid posting programming questions and instead keep the conversation flowing?
Over 90% of the forums here are technical. And the site gets 100s of new posts a day. I'd say there are about 4-5 incidents a week where a programming question is posted in the Lounge. So what's the big deal there? Given the site stats, that's a very low ratio. It will take a few seconds for a moderator/staff member to move it to the right forum. But unfortunately many of the most active guys here can't resist making a rude response within minutes of an off-topic thread. It's very easy to say people need to be thick-skinned and all that, but is that the image this site wants to portray? That people need to be prepared to be insulted and abused if they are new here and can't fight back? If this sort of things continues to exist here, it may be in the site's best interest to shut down the Lounge. It's giving you a bad name, Chris. Remembering Shog's words from a few years ago, the Soapbox is not CP's sole a-hole anymore, the Lounge is not far behind.
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com You've gotta read this : Using lambdas - C++ vs. C# vs. C++/CX vs. C++/CLI
Then again, with 8 million members, who cares if 4-5 are offended each week? I think the Lounge attracts far more members than it repulses.
Somebody in an online forum wrote:
INTJs never really joke. They make a point. The joke is just a gift wrapper.
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Welcome to the internet. If you think this is bad, I can provide you with a list of places to avoid like the plague.
Please post the list... so I can promptly visit these places... :suss:
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Then again, with 8 million members, who cares if 4-5 are offended each week? I think the Lounge attracts far more members than it repulses.
Somebody in an online forum wrote:
INTJs never really joke. They make a point. The joke is just a gift wrapper.
AspDotNetDev wrote:
I think the Lounge attracts far more members than it repulses.
Yeah, true but it also seems to attract people with bullying tendencies. I assume that many people here are so weak and timid in real life that they like to play tough-guy in these forums here.
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com You've gotta read this : Using lambdas - C++ vs. C# vs. C++/CX vs. C++/CLI
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Then again, with 8 million members, who cares if 4-5 are offended each week? I think the Lounge attracts far more members than it repulses.
Somebody in an online forum wrote:
INTJs never really joke. They make a point. The joke is just a gift wrapper.
I think more programmers offend people with their looks/smell[^] than lounge posts...
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First of all, I love the code fragment! LOL Oh, I'm not taking any of this personally. Just trying to help promote professionalism in this industry. A number of the responses have indicated that I should lighten up and not take things personally, and to view it from the viewpoint of those that are regular contributors to The Lounge. This is sort of like a restaurant owner suggesting to a first time patron that he should have not expected good professional service from the wait staff because if the person knew them, he would understand. A completely true statement, but one that is likely to ensure that the first visit to the restaurant is the last visit. Forums like The Lounge are very much professional forums and should be treated as such. And the words you say in these forums has a VERY long life, and CAN come back to bite you! This is exactly why I very seldom let someone I know from my business world be a friend on Facebook, where I let down my hair. And I never let my personal jokes, wise cracks, etc. show up on linkedin.com, so as not to tarnish my professional appearance.
I completely agree that the reactions on your question were uncalled for. The restaurant metaphor is not completely correct though. We are here out of our free will. Especially the lounge people come here for their pleasure and relaxation. Waiting staff gets paid to do their job, we don't. That being said someone should simply have pointed you to the correct forum and leave it at that. I believe that would have been decent human being behaviour. Another thing I want to point out, in defence of Nagy, is that he did actually contribute a lot to CP, even though you might not tell from his reaction. So I'm sure he meant no harm :)
diverbw wrote:
First of all, I love the code fragment! LOL
Did it answer your question though? I got downvoted for answering you by the way :laugh: I hope this whole affair has not traumatized you for life and that you will come back here in the future. Either for help with your problems (not this forum obviously) or just to chat :)
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
} -
First of all, I love the code fragment! LOL Oh, I'm not taking any of this personally. Just trying to help promote professionalism in this industry. A number of the responses have indicated that I should lighten up and not take things personally, and to view it from the viewpoint of those that are regular contributors to The Lounge. This is sort of like a restaurant owner suggesting to a first time patron that he should have not expected good professional service from the wait staff because if the person knew them, he would understand. A completely true statement, but one that is likely to ensure that the first visit to the restaurant is the last visit. Forums like The Lounge are very much professional forums and should be treated as such. And the words you say in these forums has a VERY long life, and CAN come back to bite you! This is exactly why I very seldom let someone I know from my business world be a friend on Facebook, where I let down my hair. And I never let my personal jokes, wise cracks, etc. show up on linkedin.com, so as not to tarnish my professional appearance.
I think the problem you've run into is that the difference between linkedin.com and facebook.com is obvious. The difference between [Code Project professional forums] and [Code Project casual forums] is less obvious. Still, there is a difference.
Somebody in an online forum wrote:
INTJs never really joke. They make a point. The joke is just a gift wrapper.
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AspDotNetDev wrote:
I think the Lounge attracts far more members than it repulses.
Yeah, true but it also seems to attract people with bullying tendencies. I assume that many people here are so weak and timid in real life that they like to play tough-guy in these forums here.
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com You've gotta read this : Using lambdas - C++ vs. C# vs. C++/CX vs. C++/CLI
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Yeah, true but it also seems to attract people with bullying tendencies.
Think that's true of any anonymous (or semi-anonymous) board though. [although some of us have our names on our profile]
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I think more programmers offend people with their looks/smell[^] than lounge posts...
6/10 :laugh:
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
} -
Another GREAT example of the unprofessionalism, elitism, and cronyism I am referring to in this post.
Oh, come off it. His reply was a bit snarky, but hey that's what you get with the intertubes. Relax. Yes, what you said in your post was well written and has hit the mark, but your choice to be offended is only self-defeating. Get over yourself.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Yeah, true but it also seems to attract people with bullying tendencies.
Think that's true of any anonymous (or semi-anonymous) board though. [although some of us have our names on our profile]
Albert Holguin wrote:
Think that's true of any anonymous (or semi-anonymous) board though.
I agree.
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com You've gotta read this : Using lambdas - C++ vs. C# vs. C++/CX vs. C++/CLI
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6/10 :laugh:
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
}I just guessed they were all serial killers (5/10)... :laugh:
