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  • D David Stone

    Yet Another Math Puzzle Proof that playing math games with smart people isn't fun. If I gave that to my friends, they wouldn't be able to spot it for at least a little bit. Anyway, here's another one:


    The following is what seems to be a mathematical proof that ten equals 9.999999.... What's wrong with it?

        a = 9.999999...
      10a = 99.999999...
    

    10a - a = 90
    9a = 90
    a = 10


    I don't know whether it's just the light but I swear the database server gives me dirty looks everytime I wander past. -Chris Maunder Microsoft has reinvented the wheel, this time they made it round. -Peterchen on VS.NET

    B Offline
    B Offline
    Brit
    wrote on last edited by
    #7

    This may not be right, but...

         a = 9.9999...  = 10  - 1/infinity
       10a = 99.9999... = 100 - 10/infinity
    

    10a - a = 90? no
    10a - a = (100 - 10/infinity) - (10 - 1/infinity)
    = ( 90 - 9/infinity) = 89.9999999...

    ------------------------------------------ "Isn't it funny how people say they'll never grow up to be their parents, then one day they look in the mirror and they're moving aircraft carriers into the Gulf region?" - The Onion

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    • D David Stone

      Assume that the .999999... part goes on ad infinitum.;P


      I don't know whether it's just the light but I swear the database server gives me dirty looks everytime I wander past. -Chris Maunder Microsoft has reinvented the wheel, this time they made it round. -Peterchen on VS.NET

      T Offline
      T Offline
      Taka Muraoka
      wrote on last edited by
      #8

      Isn't the second line wrong? 10a = 99.999999...0 :-)


      he he he. I like it in the kitchen! - Marc Clifton (on taking the heat when being flamed) Awasu v0.4a[^]: A free RSS reader with support for Code Project.

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      • T Taka Muraoka

        Isn't the second line wrong? 10a = 99.999999...0 :-)


        he he he. I like it in the kitchen! - Marc Clifton (on taking the heat when being flamed) Awasu v0.4a[^]: A free RSS reader with support for Code Project.

        C Offline
        C Offline
        Chris Richardson
        wrote on last edited by
        #9

        I don't think so. Multiplying it by 10 just shifts the decimal place right by one place. Chris Richardson Programmers find all sorts of ingenious ways to screw ourselves over. - Tim Smith

        T 1 Reply Last reply
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        • C Chris Richardson

          If the .999 goes on forever, all that's different is that the 1 will be way further out. Chris Richardson Programmers find all sorts of ingenious ways to screw ourselves over. - Tim Smith

          D Offline
          D Offline
          David Stone
          wrote on last edited by
          #10

          No it won't. The repeating nines will cancel each other out. If you have 3.99... - 3.99... doesn't that equal 0?


          I don't know whether it's just the light but I swear the database server gives me dirty looks everytime I wander past. -Chris Maunder Microsoft has reinvented the wheel, this time they made it round. -Peterchen on VS.NET

          N 1 Reply Last reply
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          • D David Stone

            Yet Another Math Puzzle Proof that playing math games with smart people isn't fun. If I gave that to my friends, they wouldn't be able to spot it for at least a little bit. Anyway, here's another one:


            The following is what seems to be a mathematical proof that ten equals 9.999999.... What's wrong with it?

                a = 9.999999...
              10a = 99.999999...
            

            10a - a = 90
            9a = 90
            a = 10


            I don't know whether it's just the light but I swear the database server gives me dirty looks everytime I wander past. -Chris Maunder Microsoft has reinvented the wheel, this time they made it round. -Peterchen on VS.NET

            N Offline
            N Offline
            Nitron
            wrote on last edited by
            #11

            Nothing! 10 is an asymptote. It's like having:

              \_        \_
              |     1  |
            

            lim |y = --- | ====> y = 0
            | x | x-->(infinity)
            ¯ ¯

            - Nitron


            "Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb

            N 1 Reply Last reply
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            • C Chris Richardson

              I don't think so. Multiplying it by 10 just shifts the decimal place right by one place. Chris Richardson Programmers find all sorts of ingenious ways to screw ourselves over. - Tim Smith

              T Offline
              T Offline
              Taka Muraoka
              wrote on last edited by
              #12

              Not true (I think :~) Multiplying by ten doesn't mean you play games with the symbols you use to write the number with, it means you add it ten times. Multiplying by 10 has the side-effect of "moving the decimal place" but: 1.234 * 10 = 12.340 if you want to keep the same number of decimal places. But this doesn't work if you have an infinite number of decimal places i.e. 9.999... * 10 != 99.999... Brit posted something where he used 1/infinity but you can't do that. Infinity is a concept, not a number.


              he he he. I like it in the kitchen! - Marc Clifton (on taking the heat when being flamed) Awasu v0.4a[^]: A free RSS reader with support for Code Project.

              B 1 Reply Last reply
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              • D David Stone

                No it won't. The repeating nines will cancel each other out. If you have 3.99... - 3.99... doesn't that equal 0?


                I don't know whether it's just the light but I swear the database server gives me dirty looks everytime I wander past. -Chris Maunder Microsoft has reinvented the wheel, this time they made it round. -Peterchen on VS.NET

                N Offline
                N Offline
                Nick Seng
                wrote on last edited by
                #13

                not true, we have to assume that a and 10a have the same number of significant digits.What this means is that:

                a = 9.999 ... 999
                then
                10a = 99.99 ... 990
                thus
                10a - a = 89.99 ... 991

                Notorious SMC


                The difference between the almost-right word & the right word is a really large matter - it's the difference between the lightning bug and the Lightning Mark Twain
                Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please Mark Twain

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                • N Nitron

                  Nothing! 10 is an asymptote. It's like having:

                    \_        \_
                    |     1  |
                  

                  lim |y = --- | ====> y = 0
                  | x | x-->(infinity)
                  ¯ ¯

                  - Nitron


                  "Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb

                  N Offline
                  N Offline
                  Nick Seng
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #14

                  X| X| X| X| Arrghh! I thought i left all those calculus back in College!! :Runs around in fear, remembering the nightmare of calculus: Notorious SMC


                  The difference between the almost-right word & the right word is a really large matter - it's the difference between the lightning bug and the Lightning Mark Twain
                  Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please Mark Twain

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • D David Stone

                    Yet Another Math Puzzle Proof that playing math games with smart people isn't fun. If I gave that to my friends, they wouldn't be able to spot it for at least a little bit. Anyway, here's another one:


                    The following is what seems to be a mathematical proof that ten equals 9.999999.... What's wrong with it?

                        a = 9.999999...
                      10a = 99.999999...
                    

                    10a - a = 90
                    9a = 90
                    a = 10


                    I don't know whether it's just the light but I swear the database server gives me dirty looks everytime I wander past. -Chris Maunder Microsoft has reinvented the wheel, this time they made it round. -Peterchen on VS.NET

                    M Offline
                    M Offline
                    Michael Dunn
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #15

                    I like this version: 0.9 / 9 = 0.1 1 / 9 = 0.1 Thus 0.9 = 1 :cool: --Mike-- When 900 years old you reach, look as good you will not. Hmm. 1ClickPicGrabber - Grab & organize pictures from your favorite web pages, with 1 click! My really out-of-date homepage Sonork-100.19012 Acid_Helm

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                    • D David Stone

                      Yet Another Math Puzzle Proof that playing math games with smart people isn't fun. If I gave that to my friends, they wouldn't be able to spot it for at least a little bit. Anyway, here's another one:


                      The following is what seems to be a mathematical proof that ten equals 9.999999.... What's wrong with it?

                          a = 9.999999...
                        10a = 99.999999...
                      

                      10a - a = 90
                      9a = 90
                      a = 10


                      I don't know whether it's just the light but I swear the database server gives me dirty looks everytime I wander past. -Chris Maunder Microsoft has reinvented the wheel, this time they made it round. -Peterchen on VS.NET

                      P Offline
                      P Offline
                      peterchen
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #16

                      If it goes on ad infinitum, 9.9... = 10. because 0.9... = 3* 1/3 = 1


                      Those who not hear the music think the dancers are mad.  [sighist] [Agile]

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                      • D David Stone

                        Yet Another Math Puzzle Proof that playing math games with smart people isn't fun. If I gave that to my friends, they wouldn't be able to spot it for at least a little bit. Anyway, here's another one:


                        The following is what seems to be a mathematical proof that ten equals 9.999999.... What's wrong with it?

                            a = 9.999999...
                          10a = 99.999999...
                        

                        10a - a = 90
                        9a = 90
                        a = 10


                        I don't know whether it's just the light but I swear the database server gives me dirty looks everytime I wander past. -Chris Maunder Microsoft has reinvented the wheel, this time they made it round. -Peterchen on VS.NET

                        G Offline
                        G Offline
                        geoneoration
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #17

                        if your assumption is > a = 9.999999... > 10a = 99.999999... > 10a - a = 90 > 9a = 90 > a = 10 change a to 1.1111111... or 2.22222222... or 3.33333333... or ......... the result are the same that ten will equal 1.111111... or 2.222222... or 3.333333... or ...... :)

                        Richard DeemingR 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • D David Stone

                          Yet Another Math Puzzle Proof that playing math games with smart people isn't fun. If I gave that to my friends, they wouldn't be able to spot it for at least a little bit. Anyway, here's another one:


                          The following is what seems to be a mathematical proof that ten equals 9.999999.... What's wrong with it?

                              a = 9.999999...
                            10a = 99.999999...
                          

                          10a - a = 90
                          9a = 90
                          a = 10


                          I don't know whether it's just the light but I swear the database server gives me dirty looks everytime I wander past. -Chris Maunder Microsoft has reinvented the wheel, this time they made it round. -Peterchen on VS.NET

                          K Offline
                          K Offline
                          KaRl
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #18

                          The infinite is not equal to (infinite - 1) ?


                          Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop

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                          • D David Stone

                            Yet Another Math Puzzle Proof that playing math games with smart people isn't fun. If I gave that to my friends, they wouldn't be able to spot it for at least a little bit. Anyway, here's another one:


                            The following is what seems to be a mathematical proof that ten equals 9.999999.... What's wrong with it?

                                a = 9.999999...
                              10a = 99.999999...
                            

                            10a - a = 90
                            9a = 90
                            a = 10


                            I don't know whether it's just the light but I swear the database server gives me dirty looks everytime I wander past. -Chris Maunder Microsoft has reinvented the wheel, this time they made it round. -Peterchen on VS.NET

                            K Offline
                            K Offline
                            Kastellanos Nikos
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #19

                            It's the second line. You must see it as: a = 9.999999... 10a = 10(9.999999...) 10a - a = 9(9.999999...) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Memory leaks is the price we pay \0 01234567890123456789012345678901234

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                            • G geoneoration

                              if your assumption is > a = 9.999999... > 10a = 99.999999... > 10a - a = 90 > 9a = 90 > a = 10 change a to 1.1111111... or 2.22222222... or 3.33333333... or ......... the result are the same that ten will equal 1.111111... or 2.222222... or 3.333333... or ...... :)

                              Richard DeemingR Offline
                              Richard DeemingR Offline
                              Richard Deeming
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #20

                              No:

                              a = 1.111...
                              10a = 11.111...
                              10a - a = 10
                              9a = 10
                              a = 10 / 9 = 1 + 1/9

                              a = 2.222...
                              10a = 22.222...
                              10a - a = 20
                              9a = 20
                              a = 20 / 9 = 2 + 2/9

                              etc.


                              "These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer

                              "These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined" - Homer

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                              • T Taka Muraoka

                                Not true (I think :~) Multiplying by ten doesn't mean you play games with the symbols you use to write the number with, it means you add it ten times. Multiplying by 10 has the side-effect of "moving the decimal place" but: 1.234 * 10 = 12.340 if you want to keep the same number of decimal places. But this doesn't work if you have an infinite number of decimal places i.e. 9.999... * 10 != 99.999... Brit posted something where he used 1/infinity but you can't do that. Infinity is a concept, not a number.


                                he he he. I like it in the kitchen! - Marc Clifton (on taking the heat when being flamed) Awasu v0.4a[^]: A free RSS reader with support for Code Project.

                                B Offline
                                B Offline
                                Brit
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #21

                                Brit posted something where he used 1/infinity but you can't do that. Infinity is a concept, not a number. I thought I heard once that "not all infinities are the same". ------------------------------------------ "Isn't it funny how people say they'll never grow up to be their parents, then one day they look in the mirror and they're moving aircraft carriers into the Gulf region?" - The Onion

                                T 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • B Brit

                                  Brit posted something where he used 1/infinity but you can't do that. Infinity is a concept, not a number. I thought I heard once that "not all infinities are the same". ------------------------------------------ "Isn't it funny how people say they'll never grow up to be their parents, then one day they look in the mirror and they're moving aircraft carriers into the Gulf region?" - The Onion

                                  T Offline
                                  T Offline
                                  Taka Muraoka
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #22

                                  Yep. For example, say A is the set of all positive, non-zero integers. This is a set of infinite size, of course. Let B be the set of all non-zero integers, positive and negative which is also of infinite size. But for every element in A, there are 2 in B e.g. the number 10 in A corresponds to +10 and -10 in B. So B is twice as big as A. It's a long time since I did any of this but I think to be of "infinite" size means to be uncountable but you can still set up mappings between uncountable sets like the one above and compare their sizes.


                                  he he he. I like it in the kitchen! - Marc Clifton (on taking the heat when being flamed) Awasu v0.4a[^]: A free RSS reader with support for Code Project.

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