The metro UI
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Marc A. Brown wrote:
If I'm sitting at my desk, I could definitely see using a touchscreen for most or all "mousing" activities while using . . .
If you can touch your screen from where you're sitting and still see what it is you're touching, you're much too close.
So I rounded up my camel Just to ask him for a smoke He handed me a Lucky, I said "Hey, you missed the joke." My Mu[sic] My Films My Windows Programs, etc.
Well now you're just being silly. :laugh: Seriously though, I'm sitting in front of my (non-touch) display. It's at the back of my desk and I'm at the front. I can reach out and touch the display from where I sit (though I don't, since doing so would do no good!). If I had a touchscreen, I would probably move it slightly closer for a more comfortable reach, but doing so wouldn't be a bad thing. When I'm at home (or on the go in my personal time), my laptop screen is generally closer to me than the display I'm in front of now, whether it's on a desk or a table or my lap. It would be quite comfortable to use as a touch interface.
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Am I the only one who cringes when he sees the metro UI being used outside of a phone? Actually - I cringe when I see it on a phone too.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Metro: Good for tablets. Not good for the desktop. Compared to the Android UI (Google's Linux implementation?) on tablets it does not look as slick. And what am I supposed to do with all the icons on my desktop? Actually with a few tweaks our Console Express (free download at WindigoSystems.com) would be a better alternative for business users.
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exactly - it flicks between the two modes like crazy! I hate it! metro is fine for phones/tablets but I'd prefer to keep it well clear of my desktop
-- The Obliterator
I don't understand, a lot of people is in love with Apple iOS and MacOS, but when Microsoft tries to make a change to give the design and animation to its systems to make it "pretty" like Apple do, is doing wrong? I can't understand what does people want? I think this is a good movement, like the Xbox, I used new dashboard, is like Metro, and works fine, easy and the technoogy is behind, a lot of tools and programming skills used.
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Am I the only one who cringes when he sees the metro UI being used outside of a phone? Actually - I cringe when I see it on a phone too.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
I'm gonna wait and see. I am old enough to remember saying out loud how stupid and inefficient the WIMP interface was compared to command-line tools and keyboard shortcuts. I was way wrong about that, though I do like my keyboard shortcuts still. I wanna see Excell in Metro, to see if it's better. It won't be for 2500 line monster spreadsheets, but maybe for those little charts and graphs it will be. I want to see what new things you can do and show and work with in metro. I'm betting it will be pretty useful, and I way like the visual simplicity of it.
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Chris Maunder wrote:
Am I the only one who cringes when he sees the metro UI
No, you are not.
Just along for the ride. "the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011)Agreed.
while (e) { Coyote(); }
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Am I the only one who cringes when he sees the metro UI being used outside of a phone? Actually - I cringe when I see it on a phone too.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
MS UIs often aren't sleek or intuitive. It's not surprising to see many of the MS MVPs I work with and those I've seen at TechEd now have mac's as a result of Fista and it's upgrade Win 7. The tiles on metro are very ugly compared to the UI's of Android and the IPhone where things generally are where they should be, you can fit more app icons on a non-tiled screen and have a nice desktop pic behind them. To find a setting and change it on these devices 90% of the time doesn't require you to google how to, unlike Windows 7's control panel which I find kinda confusing.
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I was lucky enough to be given a touch screen with Win 8 on it, and can confirm it's pretty darned good once you get used to it. My only gripe is having the Shutdown option on something labelled Settings - that doesn't sit too well. Apart from that, excellent.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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Am I the only one who cringes when he sees the metro UI being used outside of a phone? Actually - I cringe when I see it on a phone too.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Obviously Microsoft is indicating the future will be touch sensitive screens for the uneducated (non-programmers) public.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
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I don't understand, a lot of people is in love with Apple iOS and MacOS, but when Microsoft tries to make a change to give the design and animation to its systems to make it "pretty" like Apple do, is doing wrong? I can't understand what does people want? I think this is a good movement, like the Xbox, I used new dashboard, is like Metro, and works fine, easy and the technoogy is behind, a lot of tools and programming skills used.
Most of those people who like apple and the such doing animations are probably not high-end users. I prefer having all my information present, easy to get to (text wise), and have my computer accessible. I'm starting to get annoyed that the newer OS' (especially the phones) use these animations instead and sometimes don't even present me with error codes/useful ones (intelegisync error, no number or other reference, listed as one of 50'000 possible errors on their webpage). So I can understand disdain to microsoft doing this.
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Am I the only one who cringes when he sees the metro UI being used outside of a phone? Actually - I cringe when I see it on a phone too.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
Am I the only one who cringes when he sees the metro UI being used outside of a phone? Actually - I cringe when I see it on a phone too.
No, you're not alone. I don't care for it either. It's just ugly, IMHO. I'm not likely to develop for it, myself. -Max
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
it's pretty darned good once you get used to it
That's where it fails a UI should be intuitive enough that you don't have to "get use to it" or "learn how to use it". Microsoft has never understood this principle.
So you're saying that a complicated piece of general purpose machinery (as opposed to something single-purposed that has the "big red button") should be instantly usable as if the user were an expert with no training? I respectfully disagree. Think of your VCR (if you're old enough to remember those). How do I record? How do I set the frickin' clock? Any UI, whether it is a real world or virtual interface, requires that the user be trained in order to use it to its fullest.
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MS UIs often aren't sleek or intuitive. It's not surprising to see many of the MS MVPs I work with and those I've seen at TechEd now have mac's as a result of Fista and it's upgrade Win 7. The tiles on metro are very ugly compared to the UI's of Android and the IPhone where things generally are where they should be, you can fit more app icons on a non-tiled screen and have a nice desktop pic behind them. To find a setting and change it on these devices 90% of the time doesn't require you to google how to, unlike Windows 7's control panel which I find kinda confusing.
NZRob wrote:
The tiles on metro are very ugly compared to the UI's of Android and the IPhone
To each his own. I personally find the live tiles to be much nicer than Android and iOS, not to mention useful as more than just a launch point for an app.
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So you're saying that a complicated piece of general purpose machinery (as opposed to something single-purposed that has the "big red button") should be instantly usable as if the user were an expert with no training? I respectfully disagree. Think of your VCR (if you're old enough to remember those). How do I record? How do I set the frickin' clock? Any UI, whether it is a real world or virtual interface, requires that the user be trained in order to use it to its fullest.
It should be as easy as saying "record Fringe episode 6 season 4", "set the time to..." we have the technology to do this, hell I've prototyped code that does stuff like that round my home. Because MS has stunted good UI design for so long people now expect unintuitive UIs with bad human-machine interfaces to be the norm. You forget where windows came from, Xerox Park tested many UI designs on kids (should have tested them on more adults) and the one with Windows was the most intuitive and easy to pick up. That's why MS and Apple nabbed it off them. Unfortunately now MS takes an ok UI concept and makes a hash of it. You shouldn't need to train users to use your UI. Did you read a whole training manual before you played Angry Birds?
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It should be as easy as saying "record Fringe episode 6 season 4", "set the time to..." we have the technology to do this, hell I've prototyped code that does stuff like that round my home. Because MS has stunted good UI design for so long people now expect unintuitive UIs with bad human-machine interfaces to be the norm. You forget where windows came from, Xerox Park tested many UI designs on kids (should have tested them on more adults) and the one with Windows was the most intuitive and easy to pick up. That's why MS and Apple nabbed it off them. Unfortunately now MS takes an ok UI concept and makes a hash of it. You shouldn't need to train users to use your UI. Did you read a whole training manual before you played Angry Birds?
NZRob wrote:
easy to pick up
And how does one pick it up? Through training, whether it is formal or trial and error. No matter how simple the UI, you still need to learn how to use it. As to Metro's learning curve, how hard is it to learn that you poke the tile with your finger to start the app? The app you want to start isn't on the screen? Swipe the screen left or right. Pretty simple to get the basics, I would say. Obviously there's more to it than that, but the same is true of any complex system. Coming from a previous version of Windows may be painful in the short run for some, but not as painful and difficult as some people are bemoaning. As to Angry Birds, I would first say that learning to play a basic game isn't comparable to learning the ins and outs of a general purpose operating system, but since you asked, I watched the demo on how to use each new bird as it was opened up for me. Sounds suspiciously like reading the manual for the game, doesn't it? Thanks for the discussion! And to think I wouldn't have seen your comments if someone hadn't downgoted one of my posts on the subject. I went back to see if I had inadvertently posted something offensive (I hadn't) and noticed your post. Cheers!
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NZRob wrote:
easy to pick up
And how does one pick it up? Through training, whether it is formal or trial and error. No matter how simple the UI, you still need to learn how to use it. As to Metro's learning curve, how hard is it to learn that you poke the tile with your finger to start the app? The app you want to start isn't on the screen? Swipe the screen left or right. Pretty simple to get the basics, I would say. Obviously there's more to it than that, but the same is true of any complex system. Coming from a previous version of Windows may be painful in the short run for some, but not as painful and difficult as some people are bemoaning. As to Angry Birds, I would first say that learning to play a basic game isn't comparable to learning the ins and outs of a general purpose operating system, but since you asked, I watched the demo on how to use each new bird as it was opened up for me. Sounds suspiciously like reading the manual for the game, doesn't it? Thanks for the discussion! And to think I wouldn't have seen your comments if someone hadn't downgoted one of my posts on the subject. I went back to see if I had inadvertently posted something offensive (I hadn't) and noticed your post. Cheers!
My point is you shouldn't need any training or as little as possible i.e. learning the English language. Yes metro is pritty simple I give you that, I'm off topic I hate MS's incarnation of windows and that's what I'm ranting about. I think metro's ugly but that's a subjective opinion. My home project was creating an english - machine interface for an off the shelf humanoid robot so I could speak to it and teach it to do stuff in english. It worked, now if I can achieve that in my spare time in 6 months why can't we have better machine - human interfaces from the big guns.
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Well, I've been playing around with Metro on a tablet for a couple of months now, and in certain situations it really works well. Obviously I'm used to it, with working with WP7, so it's not quite the culture shock for me that it is for others. The ironic thing is that people complain about certain features of Metro apps, such as one app to the screen as a default, and blindly accept this behaviour on Android and iPhone.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
Pete, I think there is opportunity here. If MS can allow for more than one app to the screen at a time, then I think more people will flock to MS. The user can open as many apps as his eyes can handle on the screen. A phone may show four apps at once (facebook, twitter, phone book, and weather). A tablet may have 16 apps running, provided you can take in all of the input at one time. This "could" blow Apple out of the water. Think of the possibilities.
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Most of those people who like apple and the such doing animations are probably not high-end users. I prefer having all my information present, easy to get to (text wise), and have my computer accessible. I'm starting to get annoyed that the newer OS' (especially the phones) use these animations instead and sometimes don't even present me with error codes/useful ones (intelegisync error, no number or other reference, listed as one of 50'000 possible errors on their webpage). So I can understand disdain to microsoft doing this.