The metro UI
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Marc A. Brown wrote:
Plus, keep in mind how many people out there "use" one app at a time
Fewer and fewer rather than more and more, I'd say. Facebook, email, uTube all at once is common amongst the kiddiewinks today. And that's in class, so they probably also have Excel or something open.
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
But you're kind of proving my point (at least until you threw excel in there). Facebook and YouTube are browser based. Which means a single app (the web browser) or even better, Facebook becomes a small Metro app that pops notifications when something interesting happens and stays out of the way otherwise. Email doesn't need to run continuously if you have a notification system to let you know that new messages have arrived. YouTube doesn't work in the Metro browser at this point because it requires Flash, but once it goes all html 5, that problem goes away. Excel then becomes the only problem in your example. And in that case, you run it as a desktop app unless and until MS turns Office into Metro apps too. The thing is, if you need to go to the desktop, it is there, but if you don't, it's not. Exciting new world coming up.
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But you're kind of proving my point (at least until you threw excel in there). Facebook and YouTube are browser based. Which means a single app (the web browser) or even better, Facebook becomes a small Metro app that pops notifications when something interesting happens and stays out of the way otherwise. Email doesn't need to run continuously if you have a notification system to let you know that new messages have arrived. YouTube doesn't work in the Metro browser at this point because it requires Flash, but once it goes all html 5, that problem goes away. Excel then becomes the only problem in your example. And in that case, you run it as a desktop app unless and until MS turns Office into Metro apps too. The thing is, if you need to go to the desktop, it is there, but if you don't, it's not. Exciting new world coming up.
Don't plop me in the Metro nay-sayers. I have only used it for about three minutes (couldn't find out how to get back to it after going to the legacy desktop, and time too short to play) My point was that people are (in my experience) using multiple windows simultaneously more and not less. Now if I can swipe with my mouse to move across applications, or still run applications not maximised to he screen, I figure all will be well. If I am limited to having a single application filling the whole screen, then it is, as they say in grade 9, fucked up the ass.
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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Don't plop me in the Metro nay-sayers. I have only used it for about three minutes (couldn't find out how to get back to it after going to the legacy desktop, and time too short to play) My point was that people are (in my experience) using multiple windows simultaneously more and not less. Now if I can swipe with my mouse to move across applications, or still run applications not maximised to he screen, I figure all will be well. If I am limited to having a single application filling the whole screen, then it is, as they say in grade 9, fucked up the ass.
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
_Maxxx_ wrote:
Don't plop me in the Metro nay-sayers.
Duly noted. :-D I believe that switching between Metro apps, at least with a mouse, means moving to the left edge of the screen and using the scroll wheel. I haven't verified this, since I don't use a mouse with my laptop. Also, you can dock a second Metro app to the left side of the screen. The second app winds up being a strip that's taller than it is wide. The interesting thing is that you can flip to the desktop and the second app will still be docked, which means that your desktop runs in the space that's left on the screen. Kind of strange the first time you see it, but it works.
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Check out the Building Windows 8 blog (I don't have the link handy and am too lazy to Bing/Google it) where they talk about the reasons for the moves they've made. Then use it for a while. It will be awesome on a touchscreen PC and is very nice on a regular PC, though the developer preview is pretty sparse. Plus, unless you're using Metro apps, you're going to spend most of your time in the desktop anyway, only seeing the Live Tiles when you hit the Start button.
Marc A. Brown wrote:
It will be awesome on a touchscreen PC
A what? You mean someone will actually use a touch screen on their desktop? Just sit there all day with their arms stretched out in front of them like a sleepwalker or a zombie?
So I rounded up my camel Just to ask him for a smoke He handed me a Lucky, I said "Hey, you missed the joke." My Mu[sic] My Films My Windows Programs, etc.
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Marc A. Brown wrote:
It will be awesome on a touchscreen PC
A what? You mean someone will actually use a touch screen on their desktop? Just sit there all day with their arms stretched out in front of them like a sleepwalker or a zombie?
So I rounded up my camel Just to ask him for a smoke He handed me a Lucky, I said "Hey, you missed the joke." My Mu[sic] My Films My Windows Programs, etc.
Um... no. But what's wrong with using a touch interface in place of (or even in addition to) a mouse? If I'm sitting at my desk, I could definitely see using a touchscreen for most or all "mousing" activities while using an attached keyboard (instead of onscreen keyboard) for keyboarding. Besides, PC may not simply mean a traditional desktop but a notebook or tablet, since we're talking about a full Windows experience.
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Um... no. But what's wrong with using a touch interface in place of (or even in addition to) a mouse? If I'm sitting at my desk, I could definitely see using a touchscreen for most or all "mousing" activities while using an attached keyboard (instead of onscreen keyboard) for keyboarding. Besides, PC may not simply mean a traditional desktop but a notebook or tablet, since we're talking about a full Windows experience.
Marc A. Brown wrote:
If I'm sitting at my desk, I could definitely see using a touchscreen for most or all "mousing" activities while using . . .
If you can touch your screen from where you're sitting and still see what it is you're touching, you're much too close.
So I rounded up my camel Just to ask him for a smoke He handed me a Lucky, I said "Hey, you missed the joke." My Mu[sic] My Films My Windows Programs, etc.
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Agreed, but it is still better than seeing something designed by a Comic Sans fan.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
What do you mean by that?
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Marc A. Brown wrote:
If I'm sitting at my desk, I could definitely see using a touchscreen for most or all "mousing" activities while using . . .
If you can touch your screen from where you're sitting and still see what it is you're touching, you're much too close.
So I rounded up my camel Just to ask him for a smoke He handed me a Lucky, I said "Hey, you missed the joke." My Mu[sic] My Films My Windows Programs, etc.
Well now you're just being silly. :laugh: Seriously though, I'm sitting in front of my (non-touch) display. It's at the back of my desk and I'm at the front. I can reach out and touch the display from where I sit (though I don't, since doing so would do no good!). If I had a touchscreen, I would probably move it slightly closer for a more comfortable reach, but doing so wouldn't be a bad thing. When I'm at home (or on the go in my personal time), my laptop screen is generally closer to me than the display I'm in front of now, whether it's on a desk or a table or my lap. It would be quite comfortable to use as a touch interface.
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Am I the only one who cringes when he sees the metro UI being used outside of a phone? Actually - I cringe when I see it on a phone too.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Metro: Good for tablets. Not good for the desktop. Compared to the Android UI (Google's Linux implementation?) on tablets it does not look as slick. And what am I supposed to do with all the icons on my desktop? Actually with a few tweaks our Console Express (free download at WindigoSystems.com) would be a better alternative for business users.
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exactly - it flicks between the two modes like crazy! I hate it! metro is fine for phones/tablets but I'd prefer to keep it well clear of my desktop
-- The Obliterator
I don't understand, a lot of people is in love with Apple iOS and MacOS, but when Microsoft tries to make a change to give the design and animation to its systems to make it "pretty" like Apple do, is doing wrong? I can't understand what does people want? I think this is a good movement, like the Xbox, I used new dashboard, is like Metro, and works fine, easy and the technoogy is behind, a lot of tools and programming skills used.
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Am I the only one who cringes when he sees the metro UI being used outside of a phone? Actually - I cringe when I see it on a phone too.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
I'm gonna wait and see. I am old enough to remember saying out loud how stupid and inefficient the WIMP interface was compared to command-line tools and keyboard shortcuts. I was way wrong about that, though I do like my keyboard shortcuts still. I wanna see Excell in Metro, to see if it's better. It won't be for 2500 line monster spreadsheets, but maybe for those little charts and graphs it will be. I want to see what new things you can do and show and work with in metro. I'm betting it will be pretty useful, and I way like the visual simplicity of it.
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Chris Maunder wrote:
Am I the only one who cringes when he sees the metro UI
No, you are not.
Just along for the ride. "the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011)Agreed.
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Am I the only one who cringes when he sees the metro UI being used outside of a phone? Actually - I cringe when I see it on a phone too.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
MS UIs often aren't sleek or intuitive. It's not surprising to see many of the MS MVPs I work with and those I've seen at TechEd now have mac's as a result of Fista and it's upgrade Win 7. The tiles on metro are very ugly compared to the UI's of Android and the IPhone where things generally are where they should be, you can fit more app icons on a non-tiled screen and have a nice desktop pic behind them. To find a setting and change it on these devices 90% of the time doesn't require you to google how to, unlike Windows 7's control panel which I find kinda confusing.
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I was lucky enough to be given a touch screen with Win 8 on it, and can confirm it's pretty darned good once you get used to it. My only gripe is having the Shutdown option on something labelled Settings - that doesn't sit too well. Apart from that, excellent.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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Am I the only one who cringes when he sees the metro UI being used outside of a phone? Actually - I cringe when I see it on a phone too.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Obviously Microsoft is indicating the future will be touch sensitive screens for the uneducated (non-programmers) public.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
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I don't understand, a lot of people is in love with Apple iOS and MacOS, but when Microsoft tries to make a change to give the design and animation to its systems to make it "pretty" like Apple do, is doing wrong? I can't understand what does people want? I think this is a good movement, like the Xbox, I used new dashboard, is like Metro, and works fine, easy and the technoogy is behind, a lot of tools and programming skills used.
Most of those people who like apple and the such doing animations are probably not high-end users. I prefer having all my information present, easy to get to (text wise), and have my computer accessible. I'm starting to get annoyed that the newer OS' (especially the phones) use these animations instead and sometimes don't even present me with error codes/useful ones (intelegisync error, no number or other reference, listed as one of 50'000 possible errors on their webpage). So I can understand disdain to microsoft doing this.
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Am I the only one who cringes when he sees the metro UI being used outside of a phone? Actually - I cringe when I see it on a phone too.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
Am I the only one who cringes when he sees the metro UI being used outside of a phone? Actually - I cringe when I see it on a phone too.
No, you're not alone. I don't care for it either. It's just ugly, IMHO. I'm not likely to develop for it, myself. -Max
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
it's pretty darned good once you get used to it
That's where it fails a UI should be intuitive enough that you don't have to "get use to it" or "learn how to use it". Microsoft has never understood this principle.
So you're saying that a complicated piece of general purpose machinery (as opposed to something single-purposed that has the "big red button") should be instantly usable as if the user were an expert with no training? I respectfully disagree. Think of your VCR (if you're old enough to remember those). How do I record? How do I set the frickin' clock? Any UI, whether it is a real world or virtual interface, requires that the user be trained in order to use it to its fullest.
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MS UIs often aren't sleek or intuitive. It's not surprising to see many of the MS MVPs I work with and those I've seen at TechEd now have mac's as a result of Fista and it's upgrade Win 7. The tiles on metro are very ugly compared to the UI's of Android and the IPhone where things generally are where they should be, you can fit more app icons on a non-tiled screen and have a nice desktop pic behind them. To find a setting and change it on these devices 90% of the time doesn't require you to google how to, unlike Windows 7's control panel which I find kinda confusing.
NZRob wrote:
The tiles on metro are very ugly compared to the UI's of Android and the IPhone
To each his own. I personally find the live tiles to be much nicer than Android and iOS, not to mention useful as more than just a launch point for an app.
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So you're saying that a complicated piece of general purpose machinery (as opposed to something single-purposed that has the "big red button") should be instantly usable as if the user were an expert with no training? I respectfully disagree. Think of your VCR (if you're old enough to remember those). How do I record? How do I set the frickin' clock? Any UI, whether it is a real world or virtual interface, requires that the user be trained in order to use it to its fullest.
It should be as easy as saying "record Fringe episode 6 season 4", "set the time to..." we have the technology to do this, hell I've prototyped code that does stuff like that round my home. Because MS has stunted good UI design for so long people now expect unintuitive UIs with bad human-machine interfaces to be the norm. You forget where windows came from, Xerox Park tested many UI designs on kids (should have tested them on more adults) and the one with Windows was the most intuitive and easy to pick up. That's why MS and Apple nabbed it off them. Unfortunately now MS takes an ok UI concept and makes a hash of it. You shouldn't need to train users to use your UI. Did you read a whole training manual before you played Angry Birds?