Should Hackers Get Jail Time?
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I've been enjoying online games for about 12 years. In every online game I've played sooner or later someone develops a hack (aimbot, speed hack, etc) and makes a little bit of money marketing it to other players. For a recent example see the Mass Murder hack for Battlefield 3: Mass Murder[^] There are a couple of things that I understand: 1: I understand developing such a hack can be a fun challenge. 2: I understand that the hack has a humorous side to it. That said, in the end a bunch of paying customers for a company are having their entertainment ruined by people who obviously have no interest in playing the game with any integrity. Time and time again I've seen hundreds, and even thousands of people, disrupted because of these sorts of hacks. This seems to be a threat to real people's livelyhood and it ruins the fun for many paying customers. I know it seems draconian, but I'd like to see hard jail time for the people who develop these programs. Somehow, I think if I could program McDonald's coffee machines to spray the interior of restaurant that I'd get some jail time for that behavior. If I could program Ford automobiles to flash their lights randomly or cause city buses to be late there would also be severe punishment. Maybe I'm getting old - but one thing I really dislike about the internet is the sub-culture that seems to feed off making other people's lives miserable. It would be nice to read about these "shops" getting busted up and some hacker kiddies getting slapped around a bit. I realize the hacks are not dangerous and these are games, it's just the opportunistic mindset of a n'vr-do-well that bugs me to no end. It's like they wake up and think: Oh, a new game. How can I ruin it for thousands of people? Weeding these folks out of the gene pool would be good for the long term success of human kind. Too harsh?
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I've been enjoying online games for about 12 years. In every online game I've played sooner or later someone develops a hack (aimbot, speed hack, etc) and makes a little bit of money marketing it to other players. For a recent example see the Mass Murder hack for Battlefield 3: Mass Murder[^] There are a couple of things that I understand: 1: I understand developing such a hack can be a fun challenge. 2: I understand that the hack has a humorous side to it. That said, in the end a bunch of paying customers for a company are having their entertainment ruined by people who obviously have no interest in playing the game with any integrity. Time and time again I've seen hundreds, and even thousands of people, disrupted because of these sorts of hacks. This seems to be a threat to real people's livelyhood and it ruins the fun for many paying customers. I know it seems draconian, but I'd like to see hard jail time for the people who develop these programs. Somehow, I think if I could program McDonald's coffee machines to spray the interior of restaurant that I'd get some jail time for that behavior. If I could program Ford automobiles to flash their lights randomly or cause city buses to be late there would also be severe punishment. Maybe I'm getting old - but one thing I really dislike about the internet is the sub-culture that seems to feed off making other people's lives miserable. It would be nice to read about these "shops" getting busted up and some hacker kiddies getting slapped around a bit. I realize the hacks are not dangerous and these are games, it's just the opportunistic mindset of a n'vr-do-well that bugs me to no end. It's like they wake up and think: Oh, a new game. How can I ruin it for thousands of people? Weeding these folks out of the gene pool would be good for the long term success of human kind. Too harsh?
MehGerbil wrote:
Too harsh?
Uh... yes.
MehGerbil wrote:
It's like they wake up and think: Oh, a new game. How can I ruin it for thousands of people?
But that's not what they're thinking at all. They are thinking that they are very good at this and they can make some money or impress some people with their cleverness. Really: they're not out to get you (well, some are) at all. Your ire should be directed at the game maker for allowing these hacks in the first place. The game makers are the ones who should go to jail (just kidding).
m.bergman
For Bruce Schneier, quanta only have one state : afraid.
To succeed in the world it is not enough to be stupid, you must also be well-mannered. -- Voltaire
Honesty is the best policy, but insanity is a better defense. -- Steve Landesberg
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I've been enjoying online games for about 12 years. In every online game I've played sooner or later someone develops a hack (aimbot, speed hack, etc) and makes a little bit of money marketing it to other players. For a recent example see the Mass Murder hack for Battlefield 3: Mass Murder[^] There are a couple of things that I understand: 1: I understand developing such a hack can be a fun challenge. 2: I understand that the hack has a humorous side to it. That said, in the end a bunch of paying customers for a company are having their entertainment ruined by people who obviously have no interest in playing the game with any integrity. Time and time again I've seen hundreds, and even thousands of people, disrupted because of these sorts of hacks. This seems to be a threat to real people's livelyhood and it ruins the fun for many paying customers. I know it seems draconian, but I'd like to see hard jail time for the people who develop these programs. Somehow, I think if I could program McDonald's coffee machines to spray the interior of restaurant that I'd get some jail time for that behavior. If I could program Ford automobiles to flash their lights randomly or cause city buses to be late there would also be severe punishment. Maybe I'm getting old - but one thing I really dislike about the internet is the sub-culture that seems to feed off making other people's lives miserable. It would be nice to read about these "shops" getting busted up and some hacker kiddies getting slapped around a bit. I realize the hacks are not dangerous and these are games, it's just the opportunistic mindset of a n'vr-do-well that bugs me to no end. It's like they wake up and think: Oh, a new game. How can I ruin it for thousands of people? Weeding these folks out of the gene pool would be good for the long term success of human kind. Too harsh?
Too harsh, I'm afraid. You see, they usually aren't causing much actual damage. They're just pissing a handful of people off for a bit, cause a couple of ragequits.. But they'll get over it. That's why your analogies are flawed - it's not an actual problem, it's more like promising people cake and then not giving it to them. And anyway, developing any kind of program should never be illegal. That's basically censorship and the tools aren't the problem - using them is.
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Too harsh, I'm afraid. You see, they usually aren't causing much actual damage. They're just pissing a handful of people off for a bit, cause a couple of ragequits.. But they'll get over it. That's why your analogies are flawed - it's not an actual problem, it's more like promising people cake and then not giving it to them. And anyway, developing any kind of program should never be illegal. That's basically censorship and the tools aren't the problem - using them is.
Scenerio: 1: You and your friends invest big $$$ to develop a game. 2: You and your friends work endless hours on the game. 3: You and your friends invest additional $$$ to market the game. 4: You and your friends get 100,000 happy customers. Then some chuckle-head puts together a hack in his spare time and is now making money off a cheat that allows a small percentage of your customers to make thousands of your honest customers angry. Questions: How much income would such a cheat have to cost you before you saw it has a problem? How much developer time would you have to waste addressing these hacks (instead of adding new content) before you saw this has a problem? Serious questions - because I don't understand the mindset that holds that freedom includes the right to destroy other people's work.
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Instead of throwing them into a cell we could make them serve a few years in the army :)
And from the clouds a mighty voice spoke:
"Smile and be happy, for it could come worse!"And I smiled and was happy
And it came worse. -
How about not using the hack yourself and just playing the game as it was meant to be played?
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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we really seem to complain on a very high level if computer-game hackers get into jail for developing an aimbot for Counter Strike. ;)
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I've been enjoying online games for about 12 years. In every online game I've played sooner or later someone develops a hack (aimbot, speed hack, etc) and makes a little bit of money marketing it to other players. For a recent example see the Mass Murder hack for Battlefield 3: Mass Murder[^] There are a couple of things that I understand: 1: I understand developing such a hack can be a fun challenge. 2: I understand that the hack has a humorous side to it. That said, in the end a bunch of paying customers for a company are having their entertainment ruined by people who obviously have no interest in playing the game with any integrity. Time and time again I've seen hundreds, and even thousands of people, disrupted because of these sorts of hacks. This seems to be a threat to real people's livelyhood and it ruins the fun for many paying customers. I know it seems draconian, but I'd like to see hard jail time for the people who develop these programs. Somehow, I think if I could program McDonald's coffee machines to spray the interior of restaurant that I'd get some jail time for that behavior. If I could program Ford automobiles to flash their lights randomly or cause city buses to be late there would also be severe punishment. Maybe I'm getting old - but one thing I really dislike about the internet is the sub-culture that seems to feed off making other people's lives miserable. It would be nice to read about these "shops" getting busted up and some hacker kiddies getting slapped around a bit. I realize the hacks are not dangerous and these are games, it's just the opportunistic mindset of a n'vr-do-well that bugs me to no end. It's like they wake up and think: Oh, a new game. How can I ruin it for thousands of people? Weeding these folks out of the gene pool would be good for the long term success of human kind. Too harsh?
It's not too harsh! In the last COD MW3 there are no dedicated ranked servers, so no moderators. A random PC from the party becomes server. In every other game there is someone using aim-bot, near immortality etc. and ruining the game completely. Some game types like Team Deadmatch are not playable at all because of this low-life insects. I won’t give my $60 for the next game from this franchise. One of the main reasons that the new StarCraft never get popular was the multiplayer hacks. So this people destroy the industry. I don’t think the people who are using hacks has to be punished apart from banning them by hardware. Anyway they've been already punished from the mother nature quite enough. But the people creating these hacks have to serve some jail time for sure.
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How about not using the hack yourself and just playing the game as it was meant to be played?
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
He isn't, however when there are a few players on a server that are, it makes the game no fun... A friend and I have been playing UT99 (the first one) Assault since it was released, over the last few months we've given up on the game as the servers are now full of cheats using aimbots, This has been a problem before, but before now the community modders have managed to detect and remove these cheats from the game, but the latest bots seems to be undetectable. So for a lot of players a fun challenging game has become pointless playing, because of a few cheats who can't play without computer assistance. You see the same thing on counterstrike and halflife deathmatch servers, players using radar who know you are hiding around corners etc, they are pretty obvious as they just walk around the corner and shoot straight at you, but they claim they are just 'better players'. It's a major problem in online gaming, and it would be nice if it could be dealt with somehow.
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How about not using the hack yourself and just playing the game as it was meant to be played?
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
The problem is that if everybody else is using the hack, you can't play it as intended. You end up in the worst game ever as shown in this diagram (from Cracked.com): http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/photoshop/7/3/8/109738_v1.jpg[^] You get repeatedly killed by everybody without having any hope of killing anybody else. That is not fun.
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Too harsh, I'm afraid. You see, they usually aren't causing much actual damage. They're just pissing a handful of people off for a bit, cause a couple of ragequits.. But they'll get over it. That's why your analogies are flawed - it's not an actual problem, it's more like promising people cake and then not giving it to them. And anyway, developing any kind of program should never be illegal. That's basically censorship and the tools aren't the problem - using them is.
harold aptroot wrote:
And anyway, developing any kind of program should never be illegal. That's basically censorship and the tools aren't the problem - using them is.
Are you serious?! I would like to see you repeating this after some hackers clean your bank account and some malware destroy your work or steal these “special” pictures of your girlfriend and publish them in the web. :-D
There is only one Vera Farmiga and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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Scenerio: 1: You and your friends invest big $$$ to develop a game. 2: You and your friends work endless hours on the game. 3: You and your friends invest additional $$$ to market the game. 4: You and your friends get 100,000 happy customers. Then some chuckle-head puts together a hack in his spare time and is now making money off a cheat that allows a small percentage of your customers to make thousands of your honest customers angry. Questions: How much income would such a cheat have to cost you before you saw it has a problem? How much developer time would you have to waste addressing these hacks (instead of adding new content) before you saw this has a problem? Serious questions - because I don't understand the mindset that holds that freedom includes the right to destroy other people's work.
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harold aptroot wrote:
And anyway, developing any kind of program should never be illegal. That's basically censorship and the tools aren't the problem - using them is.
Are you serious?! I would like to see you repeating this after some hackers clean your bank account and some malware destroy your work or steal these “special” pictures of your girlfriend and publish them in the web. :-D
There is only one Vera Farmiga and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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I've been enjoying online games for about 12 years. In every online game I've played sooner or later someone develops a hack (aimbot, speed hack, etc) and makes a little bit of money marketing it to other players. For a recent example see the Mass Murder hack for Battlefield 3: Mass Murder[^] There are a couple of things that I understand: 1: I understand developing such a hack can be a fun challenge. 2: I understand that the hack has a humorous side to it. That said, in the end a bunch of paying customers for a company are having their entertainment ruined by people who obviously have no interest in playing the game with any integrity. Time and time again I've seen hundreds, and even thousands of people, disrupted because of these sorts of hacks. This seems to be a threat to real people's livelyhood and it ruins the fun for many paying customers. I know it seems draconian, but I'd like to see hard jail time for the people who develop these programs. Somehow, I think if I could program McDonald's coffee machines to spray the interior of restaurant that I'd get some jail time for that behavior. If I could program Ford automobiles to flash their lights randomly or cause city buses to be late there would also be severe punishment. Maybe I'm getting old - but one thing I really dislike about the internet is the sub-culture that seems to feed off making other people's lives miserable. It would be nice to read about these "shops" getting busted up and some hacker kiddies getting slapped around a bit. I realize the hacks are not dangerous and these are games, it's just the opportunistic mindset of a n'vr-do-well that bugs me to no end. It's like they wake up and think: Oh, a new game. How can I ruin it for thousands of people? Weeding these folks out of the gene pool would be good for the long term success of human kind. Too harsh?
I agree... Killing them may be a little too harsh... But making 'cheating' in an online game illegal somehow would be nice. (see my reply above http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/4126578/Re-Should-Hackers-Get-Jail-Time.aspx[^])
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These are serious questions that are a matter for civil court, if any, not criminal court, and the defendant would be the user of the cheating tool, not the creator. Do you hold the maker of crowbars responsible for their use?
No, but would you hold the maker of a crowbar marketed as a murder weapon culpable?
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I've been enjoying online games for about 12 years. In every online game I've played sooner or later someone develops a hack (aimbot, speed hack, etc) and makes a little bit of money marketing it to other players. For a recent example see the Mass Murder hack for Battlefield 3: Mass Murder[^] There are a couple of things that I understand: 1: I understand developing such a hack can be a fun challenge. 2: I understand that the hack has a humorous side to it. That said, in the end a bunch of paying customers for a company are having their entertainment ruined by people who obviously have no interest in playing the game with any integrity. Time and time again I've seen hundreds, and even thousands of people, disrupted because of these sorts of hacks. This seems to be a threat to real people's livelyhood and it ruins the fun for many paying customers. I know it seems draconian, but I'd like to see hard jail time for the people who develop these programs. Somehow, I think if I could program McDonald's coffee machines to spray the interior of restaurant that I'd get some jail time for that behavior. If I could program Ford automobiles to flash their lights randomly or cause city buses to be late there would also be severe punishment. Maybe I'm getting old - but one thing I really dislike about the internet is the sub-culture that seems to feed off making other people's lives miserable. It would be nice to read about these "shops" getting busted up and some hacker kiddies getting slapped around a bit. I realize the hacks are not dangerous and these are games, it's just the opportunistic mindset of a n'vr-do-well that bugs me to no end. It's like they wake up and think: Oh, a new game. How can I ruin it for thousands of people? Weeding these folks out of the gene pool would be good for the long term success of human kind. Too harsh?
This is why I'm largely uninterested in multiplayer games. Even without cheats, it's still no fun when some 14 year-old with nothing better to do than play all, day every day beats you, because you have a life, and then hurls abuse. See: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/online_gaming[^]
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I would. What am I going to do, sue the authors of metasploit, aircrack or whatever was used? That doesn't even make sense. It's the user of that program that stole the money, not the author.
So the man who smuggled illegal firearms into the country carries none of the responsibility after one is used to rob a bank? If you are making / supplying / selling something to break the law then you are breaking the law.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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No, but would you hold the maker of a crowbar marketed as a murder weapon culpable?
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So the man who smuggled illegal firearms into the country carries none of the responsibility after one is used to rob a bank? If you are making / supplying / selling something to break the law then you are breaking the law.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
