US tribe sues beer makers for $500m over alcohol abuse
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The general trend seems to be pushing the idea that substance abuse is a disease. If you go with that, then how would this be any different than a lung cancer patient with a lawsuit against a tobacco company?
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Dalek Dave wrote:
I was referring to the fact that the life expectancy was rather short.
it is. from what i've read, a lot of that has to do with the general poor economic situations of many tribes. there's not a lot of economic opportunity on a reservation, and health care is not up the same standard as the rest of the US. that probably has something to do with the alcoholism rates, too - no job, nothing to do...
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An American-Indian tribe in South Dakota has sued some of the world's biggest beer firms over severe alcohol-related issues in the community.
Before you jump up and down saying it's their own fault:
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The lawsuit also names the nearby town of Whiteclay, Nebraska, which has four beer shops that sold nearly five million beer cans in 2010 despite having only about a dozen residents.
Now you can jump up and down and blame the injuns!
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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There is the burden of proof. The patient has to prove the cigarettes caused the lung cancer and that they would not have got it from any other means. On the other hand, alcohol has beneficial effects, it is like anything, moderation is the watchword.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
There is the burden of proof.
The patient has to prove the cigarettes caused the lung cancer and that they would not have got it from any other means.Okay, so....
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They do not have the enzymes necessary to metabolise the hooch, similar to people of the far east and aborigines in Australia, so they get affected much more than those of an indo-european background who have had beers and wines in their cultures for tens of thousands of years.
I don't know where you get your info, but wouldn't that be evidence that the alcohol caused the substance abuse for these people? I really can't say I have an opinion either way on this subject, but instead of just reading it and jumping on my first impulse to say this is right or this is wrong I'd rather give it some thought. You say "moderation is the watchword", and I agree...but I think what they are saying here is that they CAN'T moderate it, and who am I to say they are wrong and/or lying about that?
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An American-Indian tribe in South Dakota has sued some of the world's biggest beer firms over severe alcohol-related issues in the community.
Before you jump up and down saying it's their own fault:
Quote:
The lawsuit also names the nearby town of Whiteclay, Nebraska, which has four beer shops that sold nearly five million beer cans in 2010 despite having only about a dozen residents.
Now you can jump up and down and blame the injuns!
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
About 30 years ago I visited an indian reservation in New York. My guide told me that the government came in and built each family a new home and that each family received a substantial monthly income. Imagine my surprise when we actually toured the reservation and the entire community looked like a hurricane had been through - trash everywhere, broken windows, stuff tore up. You see the same thing in inner city communities throughout our country. This all sounds racist, doesn't it? In a single post I've managed to nail Native Americans and African Americans with a big brush that seems to say that they cannot handle money or responsibility; however, if I examine myself I don't think an honest assesment can take us to those conclusions. The lesson that we fail to learn is that a fundamental component of human nature is that if you don't earn something you've a tendency to not take care of it. Time and time again we've demonstrated that if you want to destroy a particular group of people the quickest way to do it is to hand out money to them left and right - and it isn't long before they're utterly destroyed. Would a White example help? No problem - just look at what happens to white guys who win the lottery - how many of them are bankrupt in just a matter of years? Turns out, human nature applies to White people as well. Go figure. So to blame the alcohol makers for this one is insanity simply because those of us who have to work to eat don't have time to go on 3 week benders that rot our brains and melt our livers. That isn't a bragging point - admitting that the need to work hard is actually good for our psyche isn't arrogance - but rather a common sense approach that binds us all together as brothers and sisters equal in nature. I'm sorry that our welfare state has wiped out entire communities of people. Native Amerians are an awesome part of our collective heritage. Too bad the real bastards (politicans) who orchestrated this benevolent genocide couldn't be made to suffer for it.
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There is the burden of proof. The patient has to prove the cigarettes caused the lung cancer and that they would not have got it from any other means. On the other hand, alcohol has beneficial effects, it is like anything, moderation is the watchword.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
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How can it be the beer companies' fault that people buy and abuse their product ... :wtf:
Don't you know that we aren't responsible for anything we do. It is always the other guys fault. In fact, it's your fault I am even responding instead of working. Thank you the lame lady who sued McDonald's for the hot coffee and the lamer jury that awarded her. That opened it all up.
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I don't dispute any of that. I guess I'm just posing the question, why is the sale of alcohol different? It can also be dangerous and addictive.
there have been suits against alcohol makers, but the courts usually say things like "the dangers are commonly known". people have known about alcohol's effects since the beginning of history, so it's hard to argue that you didn't know what you were getting into.
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Ah, The Noble Savage. Of course part of the problem is physiological. They do not have the enzymes necessary to metabolise the hooch, similar to people of the far east and aborigines in Australia, so they get affected much more than those of an indo-european background who have had beers and wines in their cultures for tens of thousands of years.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
If this is the case, then why do the filthy dirty thieving gypsies Roma suffer in a similar way? They've been living in Europe for ages and so should be used to the effects of alcohol. That said, I'm pretty ropey after a night on the Pálinka and I think it can be said I can take a few glasses.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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It'll get you a date.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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It'll get you a date.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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Too lazy to back it up? That's fine. I never heard anyone say there was a benefit to alcohol so I was curious what you were making up.
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I don't dispute any of that. I guess I'm just posing the question, why is the sale of alcohol different? It can also be dangerous and addictive.
It can also be beneficial. Carrots will kill you if eaten in a large enough quantity, but I do not see warning sign on them.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
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That's just silly. One of them says it may be "casually" related to lower heart disease. That's a stretch. Another talks about wine and helping the heart. What is wine made of? Grapes. Yes, grapes are excellent for the heart so, no, it is not the alcohol. I challenge anyone to drink straight alcohol and see if it has benefits. It's a poison. Even if it has side-effects of helping the heart, which is a long stretch why would you, drink poison to strengthen your heart? I could lose weight by cutting of an arm too. So, what's your point?
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It can also be beneficial. Carrots will kill you if eaten in a large enough quantity, but I do not see warning sign on them.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
Carrots will kill you if eaten in a large enough quantity, but I do not see warning sign on them.
Ha. :-D True...but I don't think the numbers are very high for the number of people killed in car accidents due to people abusing carrots, or the number of people who seek treatment for carrot addiction, or carrot overdose.