Abortion
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ryanb31 wrote:
I get downvoted all the time in this forum for believing in God
It's not for believing in god, it's your attitude.
If it moves, compile it
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ryanb31 wrote:
I see much worse go on in here.
If you can find "much worse" that has gone without being down voted, please show us them. It is blanket statements like this that irritate people. If you are going to make a statement, back it up, please. Without backing it up, this last post or yours even carries a sense of arrogance.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
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The real answer for abortion is being morally responsible about sex in the first place. People (men and women) need to understand that the choice is made at the time of intercourse that you will be responsible for the potential outcome: life. (Even if you're using contraception, a pregnancy is still possible. Contraception is not 100% foolproof.) Don't have sex until you're ready and able to be responsible for the possible outcome. Hence, no need for abortion to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. Don't rape women (indeed, don't rape anyone). Hence, no need for abortion because of rape. Don't have sex with your children (just another form of rape). Hence, no need for abortion because of incest. Don't have sex with someone you're not supposed to. Hence, no need for abortion because of adultery or licentious behavior. That leaves only abortion for the life & health of the mother. A relatively rare instance. In many cases, the mother would rather give her life (my wife included). Do I believe this is possible, yes. Do I believe it probable, no. Still that's the only real, viable solution. Wanton killing of babies because you are irresponsible and life is inconvenient is not a moral choice, is not a moral stance.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von BraunThat's all fine and good but it does nothing to address the parking problem. More abortions today means more open parking spaces in the future. Doesn't matter how the pregnancy happened. Think of the future, think of being able to find a parking space, and to the right thing. ;P
Kill some time, play my game Hop Cheops[^]
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You and the others do not understand God, your relationship with Him, who Christ is, what the Bible is, you are not Christian and we are supposed to go with your interpretation of Holy Scripture? How would you feel if a Project Manager tried to interpret a C# book for you? You have contradicted yourself. We can go on and on but the point is none of you have even the basic understanding of who God is therefore you cannot even begin to understand Holy writ authored by Him such as the Bible. Yes, the Bible was translated by men, not prophets, so we cannot take everything directly as written. We need to also have the Spirit to understand, which is where all of you fail. I have provided plenty of evidence to support my point, you simply refuse to accept it. And if you had any evidence to contradict me, I would refuse it as well because it would be wrong. We are at an impasse. I never expected anyone in this forum to believe what I was saying. I just want you all to remember that not everyone in the world thinks like you. It just seems the loudest people in this forum are the left-wing, liberal, anti-god, atheist, anarchist types. I am simply reminding everyone that there are other people that do not believe the same thing so they are not in a delusion that their opinion is shared by everyone. I wouldn't waste my time trying to teach a 3 year old calculus, nor am I going to try and teach you the advanced concepts of the gospel, until you understand the foundation.
Back again? I really must check for 'junk' emails more regularly.
ryanb31 wrote:
You and the others do not understand God, your relationship with Him, who Christ is, what the Bible is, you are not Christian and we are supposed to go with your interpretation of Holy Scripture?
One does not need to be a follower of Jehoshua to read the and understand the Old Testament. A reading of the History & Mythology of the Middle East is all that is required to establish the nature of YHWH.
ryanb31 wrote:
How would you feel if a Project Manager tried to interpret a C# book for you?
Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: Proverbs 9:9 Your arrogance - again. How could a mere Project Manager ever have C# skills greater than a Coder?
ryanb31 wrote:
You have contradicted yourself.
I concur with Marcus Kramer.
ryanb31 wrote:
We can go on and on but the point is none of you have even the basic understanding of who God is therefore you cannot even begin to understand Holy writ authored by Him such as the Bible.
I cannot speak for the others, of course, but I do know the nature of the OT 'Holy Writ'. It is a complex and entertaining (except for the 'begats') amalgam of pagan myths, pagan religious law, poetry, and history.
ryanb31 wrote:
Yes, the Bible was translated by men, not prophets, so we cannot take everything directly as written.
And, prior to the Bible, the Torah had been frequently redacted and revised. God alone knows what he said to Moses.
ryanb31 wrote:
We need to also have the Spirit to understand
How much 'Spirit' did it take to convince you that:
[2]Thou shalt speak all that I command thee; and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he let the children of Israel go out of his land; [3]and I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt. [4]But Pharaoh will not hearken unto you, and I will lay My hand upon Egypt, and bring forth My hosts, My people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt, by great judgements. Exodus 7
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Back again? I really must check for 'junk' emails more regularly.
ryanb31 wrote:
You and the others do not understand God, your relationship with Him, who Christ is, what the Bible is, you are not Christian and we are supposed to go with your interpretation of Holy Scripture?
One does not need to be a follower of Jehoshua to read the and understand the Old Testament. A reading of the History & Mythology of the Middle East is all that is required to establish the nature of YHWH.
ryanb31 wrote:
How would you feel if a Project Manager tried to interpret a C# book for you?
Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: Proverbs 9:9 Your arrogance - again. How could a mere Project Manager ever have C# skills greater than a Coder?
ryanb31 wrote:
You have contradicted yourself.
I concur with Marcus Kramer.
ryanb31 wrote:
We can go on and on but the point is none of you have even the basic understanding of who God is therefore you cannot even begin to understand Holy writ authored by Him such as the Bible.
I cannot speak for the others, of course, but I do know the nature of the OT 'Holy Writ'. It is a complex and entertaining (except for the 'begats') amalgam of pagan myths, pagan religious law, poetry, and history.
ryanb31 wrote:
Yes, the Bible was translated by men, not prophets, so we cannot take everything directly as written.
And, prior to the Bible, the Torah had been frequently redacted and revised. God alone knows what he said to Moses.
ryanb31 wrote:
We need to also have the Spirit to understand
How much 'Spirit' did it take to convince you that:
[2]Thou shalt speak all that I command thee; and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he let the children of Israel go out of his land; [3]and I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt. [4]But Pharaoh will not hearken unto you, and I will lay My hand upon Egypt, and bring forth My hosts, My people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt, by great judgements. Exodus 7
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ryanb31 wrote:
If you do not believe in the Bible then why are you trying to use it against me?
The Old Testament is a complex and entertaining (except for the 'begats') amalgam of pagan myths, pagan religious law, poetry, and history. The Jewish people have preserved it, with redactions and revisions, over time. So, there it is, and it says what it says. I don't have to believe what it says in order to correct anyone who states that it says something different.
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
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ryanb31 wrote:
If you do not believe in the Bible then why are you trying to use it against me?
The Old Testament is a complex and entertaining (except for the 'begats') amalgam of pagan myths, pagan religious law, poetry, and history. The Jewish people have preserved it, with redactions and revisions, over time. So, there it is, and it says what it says. I don't have to believe what it says in order to correct anyone who states that it says something different.
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
The Bible is not only a historical record, it is also scriptural and spiritual. Therefore, you cannot use history or intellect alone to interpret it. Unless you understand the spiritual side as well, you are just like a project manager trying to teach developers C# code. (I use project manager as the example because in my experience they do not understand anything about code but think they know how to get a project done.)
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That's all fine and good but it does nothing to address the parking problem. More abortions today means more open parking spaces in the future. Doesn't matter how the pregnancy happened. Think of the future, think of being able to find a parking space, and to the right thing. ;P
Kill some time, play my game Hop Cheops[^]
LOL. Yeah, think of the parking spaces and then don't do IT!
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
The Bible is not only a historical record, it is also scriptural and spiritual. Therefore, you cannot use history or intellect alone to interpret it. Unless you understand the spiritual side as well, you are just like a project manager trying to teach developers C# code. (I use project manager as the example because in my experience they do not understand anything about code but think they know how to get a project done.)
ryanb31 wrote:
The Bible is not only a historical record, it is also scriptural mythical and spiritual poetical.
As well as containing pagan religious law.
ryanb31 wrote:
Unless you understand the spiritual side
Which I do.
ryanb31 wrote:
I use project manager as the example because in my experience they do not understand anything about code but think they know how to get a project done.)
Tough.
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
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ryanb31 wrote:
The Bible is not only a historical record, it is also scriptural mythical and spiritual poetical.
As well as containing pagan religious law.
ryanb31 wrote:
Unless you understand the spiritual side
Which I do.
ryanb31 wrote:
I use project manager as the example because in my experience they do not understand anything about code but think they know how to get a project done.)
Tough.
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
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Ironic how you say the Bible is not spiritual and then claim to understand the spiritual side. Until you have a foundation, there is no point in trying to explain to you.
ryanb31 wrote:
Ironic how you say the Bible is not spiritual and then claim to understand the spiritual side.
Well spotted. My point being, I do understand the spiritual side, because I have a 'soul'. The text is more than just the literal meaning discerned by the intellect, it is also evocative, speaking directly to the 'soul'. Meaning that is above mere words. That is the nature of poetry.
ryanb31 wrote:
The Bible is not only a historical record, it is also scriptural and spiritual.
- The Bible is ... scriptural. Bible: A book or collection of writings. scriptural: Written or relating to writing. Tautology, even had you used Scriptural. Scriptural: of, in accordance with, or based on Scripture. 2) The Bible is ... spiritual. Spiritual: Of, relating to, or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things. Well, duh, it's a Holy Book. Mythical and poetical, better description.
ryanb31 wrote:
Until you have a foundation, there is no point in trying to explain to you.
Myself when young did eagerly frequent Doctor and Saint, and heard great Argument About it and about; but evermore Came out by the same Door as in I went. And I know that you are not in their league.
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
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ryanb31 wrote:
Ironic how you say the Bible is not spiritual and then claim to understand the spiritual side.
Well spotted. My point being, I do understand the spiritual side, because I have a 'soul'. The text is more than just the literal meaning discerned by the intellect, it is also evocative, speaking directly to the 'soul'. Meaning that is above mere words. That is the nature of poetry.
ryanb31 wrote:
The Bible is not only a historical record, it is also scriptural and spiritual.
- The Bible is ... scriptural. Bible: A book or collection of writings. scriptural: Written or relating to writing. Tautology, even had you used Scriptural. Scriptural: of, in accordance with, or based on Scripture. 2) The Bible is ... spiritual. Spiritual: Of, relating to, or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things. Well, duh, it's a Holy Book. Mythical and poetical, better description.
ryanb31 wrote:
Until you have a foundation, there is no point in trying to explain to you.
Myself when young did eagerly frequent Doctor and Saint, and heard great Argument About it and about; but evermore Came out by the same Door as in I went. And I know that you are not in their league.
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
I am not sure why you claim to understand the spiritual side of it. For starters, if you did, you would know it is absolute absurdity to suggest that God condones or even demands rape. You can't understand the spiritual side if you don't even believe in God, for it is His spirit we are talking about.
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I am not sure why you claim to understand the spiritual side of it. For starters, if you did, you would know it is absolute absurdity to suggest that God condones or even demands rape. You can't understand the spiritual side if you don't even believe in God, for it is His spirit we are talking about.
ryanb31 wrote:
it is absolute absurdity to suggest that God condones or even demands rape.
So you cannot reconcile 'Abba' with 'YHWH'? The loving, forgiving god with the vengeful, wrathful, jealous god who could say:
[2]Thou shalt speak all that I command thee; and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he let the children of Israel go out of his land; [3]and I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt. [4]But Pharaoh will not hearken unto you, and I will lay My hand upon Egypt, and bring forth My hosts, My people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt, by great judgements. Exodus 7
with Jehoshua's loving Dad? But Jehoshua means 'YHWH is salvation', so sit down, take a deep breath, shut your eyes, clench your fists, clench your buttocks and believe! It is all in the Holy Bible, and must be true.
ryanb31 wrote:
You can't understand the spiritual side if you don't even believe in God
Spirituality exists independently of religion, and thus, gods. (Gods don't exist without a religion, you know, spirituality does.)
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
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ryanb31 wrote:
it is absolute absurdity to suggest that God condones or even demands rape.
So you cannot reconcile 'Abba' with 'YHWH'? The loving, forgiving god with the vengeful, wrathful, jealous god who could say:
[2]Thou shalt speak all that I command thee; and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he let the children of Israel go out of his land; [3]and I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt. [4]But Pharaoh will not hearken unto you, and I will lay My hand upon Egypt, and bring forth My hosts, My people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt, by great judgements. Exodus 7
with Jehoshua's loving Dad? But Jehoshua means 'YHWH is salvation', so sit down, take a deep breath, shut your eyes, clench your fists, clench your buttocks and believe! It is all in the Holy Bible, and must be true.
ryanb31 wrote:
You can't understand the spiritual side if you don't even believe in God
Spirituality exists independently of religion, and thus, gods. (Gods don't exist without a religion, you know, spirituality does.)
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
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Religion and God are 2 very different things. Most all religions were created by man to worship a god they believed in and to teach the Bible the way they believed. God exists regardless of religion. Do you believe in God?
ryanb31 wrote:
Most all religions were created by man to worship a god they believed in and to teach the Bible the way they believed.
Nope. Mankind invented beings to explain natural phenomena. To control those phenomena and thus ensure survival and fertility (of crops, herds, population), prayers and offerings were made to these beings. As society became more structured, sophisticated religious and legal structures evolved. Religion gave legitimacy to political and legal structures through divine ordination. Writing codified religious, political, and legal structures in the form of a 'Holy Writ'. Indoctrination of the population by 'Holy Writ' ensured the coherence of society.
ryanb31 wrote:
God exists regardless of religion.
When that 'Holy Writ' and the religion it codifies are no more, these beings, mere figments of human imagination, will also be no more. (Any Ogdoad cultists out there? Speak up! No? Thought not.)
ryanb31 wrote:
Do you believe in God?
Of course not.
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
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ryanb31 wrote:
Most all religions were created by man to worship a god they believed in and to teach the Bible the way they believed.
Nope. Mankind invented beings to explain natural phenomena. To control those phenomena and thus ensure survival and fertility (of crops, herds, population), prayers and offerings were made to these beings. As society became more structured, sophisticated religious and legal structures evolved. Religion gave legitimacy to political and legal structures through divine ordination. Writing codified religious, political, and legal structures in the form of a 'Holy Writ'. Indoctrination of the population by 'Holy Writ' ensured the coherence of society.
ryanb31 wrote:
God exists regardless of religion.
When that 'Holy Writ' and the religion it codifies are no more, these beings, mere figments of human imagination, will also be no more. (Any Ogdoad cultists out there? Speak up! No? Thought not.)
ryanb31 wrote:
Do you believe in God?
Of course not.
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
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Like I said before, you do not even believe in God so there is no point to this discussion as you have no authority to discuss Him nor even a desire to learn about Him. I'm doing arguing Spanish with a Chinese person.
ryanb31 wrote:
you do not even believe in God
As was clear from the get-go. So why have you been wasting so much of your time?
ryanb31 wrote:
you have no authority to discuss Him
I have my Divinity Discussion Licence, signed by the Archbishop of Canterbury, so I have every right to discuss the nature of divine beings.
ryanb31 wrote:
nor even a desire to learn about Him.
Like I said before: Myself when young did eagerly frequent Doctor and Saint, and heard great Argument About it and about; but evermore Came out by the same Door as in I went.
ryanb31 wrote:
I'm doing arguing Spanish with a Chinese person.
You're doing arguing Spanish? And your instructor is Chinese? You'd do better with a Spaniard. (Or did you mean that a fellow student is Chinese?)
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
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ryanb31 wrote:
you do not even believe in God
As was clear from the get-go. So why have you been wasting so much of your time?
ryanb31 wrote:
you have no authority to discuss Him
I have my Divinity Discussion Licence, signed by the Archbishop of Canterbury, so I have every right to discuss the nature of divine beings.
ryanb31 wrote:
nor even a desire to learn about Him.
Like I said before: Myself when young did eagerly frequent Doctor and Saint, and heard great Argument About it and about; but evermore Came out by the same Door as in I went.
ryanb31 wrote:
I'm doing arguing Spanish with a Chinese person.
You're doing arguing Spanish? And your instructor is Chinese? You'd do better with a Spaniard. (Or did you mean that a fellow student is Chinese?)
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
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ryanb31 wrote:
Right, because the Archbishop of Canterbury knows
... more than you ever will. What is more, unlike your good self, he understands what he knows. 1975 Doctor of Philosophy (Theology)- Oxford 1977 Parish and Academic work - Cambridge 1983 Lecturer in Divinity - Cambridge 1986 Professor of Divinity - Oxford 1991 Bishop of Monmouth 1999 Archbishop of Wales 2002 Archbishop of Canterbury An outstanding theological writer, scholar and teacher, he has been involved in many theological, ecumenical and educational commissions. He speaks or reads: English, Welsh, Spanish, French, German, Russian, and Modern Greek. Also Biblical Hebrew, Syriac (Aramaic), Ancient Greek, and Latin. He has written extensively across a very wide range of related fields of professional study – philosophy, theology (especially early and patristic Christianity), spirituality and religious aesthetics. He is also an accomplished poet and translator.
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon
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ryanb31 wrote:
Right, because the Archbishop of Canterbury knows
... more than you ever will. What is more, unlike your good self, he understands what he knows. 1975 Doctor of Philosophy (Theology)- Oxford 1977 Parish and Academic work - Cambridge 1983 Lecturer in Divinity - Cambridge 1986 Professor of Divinity - Oxford 1991 Bishop of Monmouth 1999 Archbishop of Wales 2002 Archbishop of Canterbury An outstanding theological writer, scholar and teacher, he has been involved in many theological, ecumenical and educational commissions. He speaks or reads: English, Welsh, Spanish, French, German, Russian, and Modern Greek. Also Biblical Hebrew, Syriac (Aramaic), Ancient Greek, and Latin. He has written extensively across a very wide range of related fields of professional study – philosophy, theology (especially early and patristic Christianity), spirituality and religious aesthetics. He is also an accomplished poet and translator.
Use carrots and sticks to force the little fish into the big tent - Anon