Affirmative action..Why it's wrong?
-
Michael Dunn wrote: "Affirmative action" is a euphemism for "discrimination against caucasians", nothing more. Sometimes
-
It's wrong when people of greed take advantage of a system that was created originally for people in need. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka MuraokaMarc Clifton wrote: It's wrong when people of greed take advantage of a system that was created originally for people in need. I agree there also. It's like the labor unions here in the US. There was a time that the working man needed to be protected and properly represented. Now it's merely a system of lazy people who want more money to do less work! (IMO of course) - Nitron
"Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb
-
What's wrong in University of Michigan admission plan?? Bush on attack over affirmative action[^] In India, we have "reservation policy" for Women and Lower caste people, so that they can get better education and jobs(of course, that policy being misused by others that's a different story) Personally I disagree that policy, but before India's independence they were branded as "untouchables", so Gandhi made that "reservation policy" which is going on for more than 50 years. Kant Sonork-100.28114 Don't :beer: and Drive.
Affirmative action: Bad: It is discrimination pure and simple. If people are truly equal, then there is no need for affirmative action. Affirmative action is basically racism is an a strange sort of way. (i.e. "Those people" aren't as good enough as whites, so they need help.) Good: One of the problems with the "bad" view of affirmative action is it assumes that all races are equal and more importantly, it assumes all races enjoy the same opportunities. The second part is the key here. But the cause and effect needs to be investigated more. Are the benefactors of affirmative action in need of a helping hand because of their race or is it more of becase of their economic position. (EDIT: The third problem with the "bad" view is that it assumes there is no discrimination. However, there are laws and regulations on the books already to deal with that problem.) My opinion: I happen to believe it has more to do with economic position than race. Affirmative action is flawed because it doesn't properly target the right group of people. We need to improve the economic opportunities of all people. This in turn will mostly help the same groups of people since affirmative action tends to target groups who are on average lower down on the economic scale. (To the best of my knowledge) Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
-
Michael Dunn wrote: "Affirmative action" is a euphemism for "discrimination against caucasians", nothing more. Sometimes
There is no case when it isn't. You are picking someone purely based on their race. You can wrap the discrimination in as many good and noble intentions as you wish, but it is still discrimination. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
-
What's wrong in University of Michigan admission plan?? Bush on attack over affirmative action[^] In India, we have "reservation policy" for Women and Lower caste people, so that they can get better education and jobs(of course, that policy being misused by others that's a different story) Personally I disagree that policy, but before India's independence they were branded as "untouchables", so Gandhi made that "reservation policy" which is going on for more than 50 years. Kant Sonork-100.28114 Don't :beer: and Drive.
It's positive discrimination (i.e. giving someone an advantage because they're difference), but this is still discrimination. Imagine the scenario of a job interview with two candidates, a really highly trained candidate, and someone who is totally average. In a normal world, the best person would be given the job, however, if there is "political correctness" at work, then the less able person may be given the job for the simple reason that they belong to some form of minority, and the company is either scared of being accused of discrimination against them, or they have some kind of "we're against discrimination" policy meaning they're forced to hire the substandard person just to make up numbers in their quota to prove what a modern company they are -- Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit!
-
It's wrong when people of greed take advantage of a system that was created originally for people in need. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka -
zenboy wrote: Sometimes When is it not? - Nitron
"Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb
-
Wow, Bush doing something smart for a change? *rubs eyes* I am awake right? ;) "Affirmative action" is a euphemism for "discrimination against caucasians", nothing more. And in typical political bullshit fashion, a democrat is quoted saying: "They [Republicans] have to decide whether they're for civil rights and diversity or not." Notice how he's saying that Republicans are not supporting civil rights and diversity, when they are supporting exactly that. Rights for all people, not just non-caucasians. And people wonder why my generation is so apathetic towards politics. --Mike-- I'm bored... Episode I bored. 1ClickPicGrabber - Grab & organize pictures from your favorite web pages, with 1 click! My really out-of-date homepage Sonork-100.19012 Acid_Helm
Michael Dunn wrote: "Affirmative action" is a euphemism for "discrimination against caucasians", nothing more. I agree. Wanna piss everybody off? Hold the first annual "white heterosexual male only" gathering. I suppose we brought it upon our selves, though. How many years did we partake in slavery, then later, segregation? How long did we hold the Japenese Americans in concentration camps during WWII? The US, thank God, get's a wee bit better each year toward treating everybody equally, but of course, we've still got a long way to go. Affirmative Action, though, has never been the way to do it, however, in my humble opinion. Kyosa Jamie Nordmeyer - Cho Dan Portland, Oregon, USA
-
What's wrong in University of Michigan admission plan?? Bush on attack over affirmative action[^] In India, we have "reservation policy" for Women and Lower caste people, so that they can get better education and jobs(of course, that policy being misused by others that's a different story) Personally I disagree that policy, but before India's independence they were branded as "untouchables", so Gandhi made that "reservation policy" which is going on for more than 50 years. Kant Sonork-100.28114 Don't :beer: and Drive.
The way I see it, affirmative action means well, but should be used as a "band-aid" type fix. If, say, a college feels that it has to use affirmative action to get a diverse mix of students, then it signals other problems (e.g., there are inequalities in high schools, or something about the university turns off minority applicants.) There are more subtle problems, too. Often there can be an attitude amongst Caucasions that if they see a minority in a job or in school, think, "Man, he/she only got in because he's [insert race other than white]." A terrible attitude, but affirmative action can make it worse. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
-
Wow, Bush doing something smart for a change? *rubs eyes* I am awake right? ;) "Affirmative action" is a euphemism for "discrimination against caucasians", nothing more. And in typical political bullshit fashion, a democrat is quoted saying: "They [Republicans] have to decide whether they're for civil rights and diversity or not." Notice how he's saying that Republicans are not supporting civil rights and diversity, when they are supporting exactly that. Rights for all people, not just non-caucasians. And people wonder why my generation is so apathetic towards politics. --Mike-- I'm bored... Episode I bored. 1ClickPicGrabber - Grab & organize pictures from your favorite web pages, with 1 click! My really out-of-date homepage Sonork-100.19012 Acid_Helm
-
Affirmative action: Bad: It is discrimination pure and simple. If people are truly equal, then there is no need for affirmative action. Affirmative action is basically racism is an a strange sort of way. (i.e. "Those people" aren't as good enough as whites, so they need help.) Good: One of the problems with the "bad" view of affirmative action is it assumes that all races are equal and more importantly, it assumes all races enjoy the same opportunities. The second part is the key here. But the cause and effect needs to be investigated more. Are the benefactors of affirmative action in need of a helping hand because of their race or is it more of becase of their economic position. (EDIT: The third problem with the "bad" view is that it assumes there is no discrimination. However, there are laws and regulations on the books already to deal with that problem.) My opinion: I happen to believe it has more to do with economic position than race. Affirmative action is flawed because it doesn't properly target the right group of people. We need to improve the economic opportunities of all people. This in turn will mostly help the same groups of people since affirmative action tends to target groups who are on average lower down on the economic scale. (To the best of my knowledge) Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
I do agree to most of what you have said, but your statement: ..it assumes that all races are equal .. . Maybe you got your wording wrong, but that would imply that you think that certain races 'better', or superior to another. Perhaps you meant certain cultural,regional or ecomomical upbringing rather that a persons race? just my bird beak or the day rc
-
-
Affirmative action: Bad: It is discrimination pure and simple. If people are truly equal, then there is no need for affirmative action. Affirmative action is basically racism is an a strange sort of way. (i.e. "Those people" aren't as good enough as whites, so they need help.) Good: One of the problems with the "bad" view of affirmative action is it assumes that all races are equal and more importantly, it assumes all races enjoy the same opportunities. The second part is the key here. But the cause and effect needs to be investigated more. Are the benefactors of affirmative action in need of a helping hand because of their race or is it more of becase of their economic position. (EDIT: The third problem with the "bad" view is that it assumes there is no discrimination. However, there are laws and regulations on the books already to deal with that problem.) My opinion: I happen to believe it has more to do with economic position than race. Affirmative action is flawed because it doesn't properly target the right group of people. We need to improve the economic opportunities of all people. This in turn will mostly help the same groups of people since affirmative action tends to target groups who are on average lower down on the economic scale. (To the best of my knowledge) Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
Tim Smith wrote: We need to improve the economic opportunities of all people. This in turn will mostly help the same groups of people since affirmative action tends to target groups who are on average lower down on the economic scale. (To the best of my knowledge) I agree on your point. Kant Sonork-100.28114 Don't :beer: and Drive.
-
I do agree to most of what you have said, but your statement: ..it assumes that all races are equal .. . Maybe you got your wording wrong, but that would imply that you think that certain races 'better', or superior to another. Perhaps you meant certain cultural,regional or ecomomical upbringing rather that a persons race? just my bird beak or the day rc
Did I say that? Nope I did not. "it assumes that all races are equal" is a statement about a position that makes no statement about my position. This is why it is so hard to talk honestly about race since so many people have such logically weak arguments, they start resorting to saying others are racist. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
-
LOL... So I guess equal rights means equal right, but we get more. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
-
What's wrong in University of Michigan admission plan?? Bush on attack over affirmative action[^] In India, we have "reservation policy" for Women and Lower caste people, so that they can get better education and jobs(of course, that policy being misused by others that's a different story) Personally I disagree that policy, but before India's independence they were branded as "untouchables", so Gandhi made that "reservation policy" which is going on for more than 50 years. Kant Sonork-100.28114 Don't :beer: and Drive.
A totally different point of AA that I have never heard mention is this: Less QUALIFIED people get to attend and graduate. Lets say a candidate was admitted through Affirmative Action, who otherwise would not have qualified because they were simply not good enough (grades not high enough, entry test scores not high enough what have you not), to a medical school, and pulls through (barely) and makes MD... My question is.. WHAT ABOUT HIS/HER PATIENTS? They would obviously get care for a less qualified individual, who by pure academic standards would never made it into med. school in the first place? If they get hurt by this substandard care, should they be allowed to sue the college that allowed the person to attend despite being academically unsuited? In my opinion, and in this case, FAIRNESS means... "to take no consideration in any way shape and or form to a persons, skin color, gender, religion or sexual preference"... it does NOT mean "giving some people preference due to their skin color". /CMH
-
The problem is you are trying to solve one problem by reversing the problem and creating a new one. That is logically flawed. "Hey, you stabbed me in the back, so I am going to stab you in the back." Correct the problem at hand, discrimination in ALL forms. It seems to be a commonly held belief that people who want to see affirmative action abolished are also giving admittance boards a big *nudge* *nudge* *wink* *wink*. Sure, there are some who do think like that. Then there are those of us who are truly sincere and are the first ones in line to jail a few "good old boys" when we have evidence of institutionalized discrimination. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
-
Hey lauren, I am a non-white person who feels discrimination is wrong. Simply because I have experienced it; I don't think people who have not wronged people should have to experience the life long anger that follows. I just don't understand why people who have been discriminated against would argue to continue a practice that has the potential to perpetuate discrimination. Fill me with your knowledge, your wisdom, your coffee.
-
The problem is you are trying to solve one problem by reversing the problem and creating a new one. That is logically flawed. "Hey, you stabbed me in the back, so I am going to stab you in the back." Correct the problem at hand, discrimination in ALL forms. It seems to be a commonly held belief that people who want to see affirmative action abolished are also giving admittance boards a big *nudge* *nudge* *wink* *wink*. Sure, there are some who do think like that. Then there are those of us who are truly sincere and are the first ones in line to jail a few "good old boys" when we have evidence of institutionalized discrimination. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
u do make me laugh on the one hand u criticize paul for his "naive belief that we live in a perfect world" and on the other hand u advocate we should all live happily ever after in such a perfect world discrimination exists and thats a fact ... to address the inbalance caused by history a little nudge on the opposite side will help while the rest of the human race gets its head out of its ass and sees "geeee hiring gay black women as programmers is actually cool" (assuming they can program) thinking the ship that has been sailing on the wrong course for the last 2000 years or more will magically correct itself is naive in the extreme
"traffic lights are for people who can't make their own decisions"
biz stuff about me -
Hey lauren, I am a non-white person who feels discrimination is wrong. Simply because I have experienced it; I don't think people who have not wronged people should have to experience the life long anger that follows. I just don't understand why people who have been discriminated against would argue to continue a practice that has the potential to perpetuate discrimination. Fill me with your knowledge, your wisdom, your coffee.