J2EE
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My boss tells me that as we go for bigger and bigger projects, we more and more are bidding on J2EE rather than .NET projects, using Oracle. The Oracle bit tells me it's a religious decision ( Oracle sucks ), but I wonder, is it the same where you are ? Is J2EE entrenched as far as the big leagues go ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002 -
My boss tells me that as we go for bigger and bigger projects, we more and more are bidding on J2EE rather than .NET projects, using Oracle. The Oracle bit tells me it's a religious decision ( Oracle sucks ), but I wonder, is it the same where you are ? Is J2EE entrenched as far as the big leagues go ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002funny u should mention this cos i was just talking to a colleague today about java based stuff in the enterprise for example a java-based web server (like web sphere i believe) apparently totally sux performance wise against even apache but yet the big corporates seem to be adopting it the only reason we could think of was that the ibm suits come in and schmooooz the management and they get the feel-good factor going and adopt inferior tech cos they feel safe with big blue et al
"traffic lights are for people who can't make their own decisions"
biz stuff about me -
funny u should mention this cos i was just talking to a colleague today about java based stuff in the enterprise for example a java-based web server (like web sphere i believe) apparently totally sux performance wise against even apache but yet the big corporates seem to be adopting it the only reason we could think of was that the ibm suits come in and schmooooz the management and they get the feel-good factor going and adopt inferior tech cos they feel safe with big blue et al
"traffic lights are for people who can't make their own decisions"
biz stuff about meDunno if you've used Oracle or not, but it REALLY blows. Which is why I tend to agree ( I don't have much Java experience, so I'll have to take your word for it ). It seems to me that a lot of anti-Microsoft sentiment is what fuels these decisions, along with the mistaken belief that IBM is still a force to be reckoned with. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002 -
Dunno if you've used Oracle or not, but it REALLY blows. Which is why I tend to agree ( I don't have much Java experience, so I'll have to take your word for it ). It seems to me that a lot of anti-Microsoft sentiment is what fuels these decisions, along with the mistaken belief that IBM is still a force to be reckoned with. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002ive worked with oracle enuff to agree with ur opinion of it thats for sure ... im porting all my web db stuff to mysql these days and to php on the server ... and i just got a linux server box for dev work cos thats the low cost option ppl want these days java and oracle?? shame
"traffic lights are for people who can't make their own decisions"
biz stuff about me -
My boss tells me that as we go for bigger and bigger projects, we more and more are bidding on J2EE rather than .NET projects, using Oracle. The Oracle bit tells me it's a religious decision ( Oracle sucks ), but I wonder, is it the same where you are ? Is J2EE entrenched as far as the big leagues go ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002Well I am seeing more and more large companies go for not necessarily Oracle, but Java on Linux, with either PostGreSQL or MySQL (4.X series). I think that Microsoft is primarily to blame for this actually because they price their products so that most mortals cannot afford them. In this economy, it is not necessarily the best technology that wins (having worked extensively with both Unix/Linux/C++, Windows C++, Windows/.NET/C# and Java on Solaris, Linux and OS-X I have to say that in my opinion, the Microsoft solution in .NET is superior to Java), but the one that can do the job good enough, for the least amount of money. When the bleeding server software from Microsoft, costs more than the hardware it runs on, many businesses see a clear case for going Linux/Java/(PostGreSQL | MySQL) on the server. IMHO
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My boss tells me that as we go for bigger and bigger projects, we more and more are bidding on J2EE rather than .NET projects, using Oracle. The Oracle bit tells me it's a religious decision ( Oracle sucks ), but I wonder, is it the same where you are ? Is J2EE entrenched as far as the big leagues go ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002I think the reason for this is that MS technologies run only on PC, while Java can run on something like this :beer:
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funny u should mention this cos i was just talking to a colleague today about java based stuff in the enterprise for example a java-based web server (like web sphere i believe) apparently totally sux performance wise against even apache but yet the big corporates seem to be adopting it the only reason we could think of was that the ibm suits come in and schmooooz the management and they get the feel-good factor going and adopt inferior tech cos they feel safe with big blue et al
"traffic lights are for people who can't make their own decisions"
biz stuff about meIBM HTTP server is powered by Apache. Websphere itself can be configured with apache or other web servers. lauren wrote: they get the feel-good factor going and adopt inferior tech cos they feel safe with big blue Thats part of it since many times the project they embark on is huge in terms of resources and budget, and they want to make sure support will be there later on, etc.
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Well I am seeing more and more large companies go for not necessarily Oracle, but Java on Linux, with either PostGreSQL or MySQL (4.X series). I think that Microsoft is primarily to blame for this actually because they price their products so that most mortals cannot afford them. In this economy, it is not necessarily the best technology that wins (having worked extensively with both Unix/Linux/C++, Windows C++, Windows/.NET/C# and Java on Solaris, Linux and OS-X I have to say that in my opinion, the Microsoft solution in .NET is superior to Java), but the one that can do the job good enough, for the least amount of money. When the bleeding server software from Microsoft, costs more than the hardware it runs on, many businesses see a clear case for going Linux/Java/(PostGreSQL | MySQL) on the server. IMHO
Chris Hansson wrote: When the bleeding server software from Microsoft, costs more than the hardware it runs on, many businesses see a clear case for going Linux/Java/(PostGreSQL | MySQL) on the server. I have to say I agree - the pricing on every part of Microsoft's platform, from the server to the compiler, is just obscene. Did you know that you pay per *processor* for SQL Server ? Put it in a dual processor box, your price more than doubles. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002 -
IBM HTTP server is powered by Apache. Websphere itself can be configured with apache or other web servers. lauren wrote: they get the feel-good factor going and adopt inferior tech cos they feel safe with big blue Thats part of it since many times the project they embark on is huge in terms of resources and budget, and they want to make sure support will be there later on, etc.
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Chris Hansson wrote: When the bleeding server software from Microsoft, costs more than the hardware it runs on, many businesses see a clear case for going Linux/Java/(PostGreSQL | MySQL) on the server. I have to say I agree - the pricing on every part of Microsoft's platform, from the server to the compiler, is just obscene. Did you know that you pay per *processor* for SQL Server ? Put it in a dual processor box, your price more than doubles. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002Christian Graus wrote: Did you know that you pay per *processor* for SQL Server ? Put it in a dual processor box, your price more than doubles. Yes, which is way I am SOOOO thankful that there is the Blessed Company Store... $30 for XP Professional ($20 for upgrade)... $150 for Visual Studio Enterprise Developer edition, etc. etc.
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My boss tells me that as we go for bigger and bigger projects, we more and more are bidding on J2EE rather than .NET projects, using Oracle. The Oracle bit tells me it's a religious decision ( Oracle sucks ), but I wonder, is it the same where you are ? Is J2EE entrenched as far as the big leagues go ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002Christian Graus wrote: The Oracle bit tells me it's a religious decision ( Oracle sucks ), but I wonder, is it the same where you are ? I am curious, why is your company using Oracle, is it because they need the 'features' it has? My understanding is that people use Oracle because of the extra out of the box functionality provided with it, and I am talking about complex features and solutions, and its ability to run huge(and I mean huge) databases without crumbling. Or is it just the name, or customer requirements? I would like to hear the experience of anyone with huge Oracle deployments? Christian Graus wrote: Is J2EE entrenched as far as the big leagues go ? No doubt about that, especially here on the east coast of the US.
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Christian Graus wrote: The Oracle bit tells me it's a religious decision ( Oracle sucks ), but I wonder, is it the same where you are ? I am curious, why is your company using Oracle, is it because they need the 'features' it has? My understanding is that people use Oracle because of the extra out of the box functionality provided with it, and I am talking about complex features and solutions, and its ability to run huge(and I mean huge) databases without crumbling. Or is it just the name, or customer requirements? I would like to hear the experience of anyone with huge Oracle deployments? Christian Graus wrote: Is J2EE entrenched as far as the big leagues go ? No doubt about that, especially here on the east coast of the US.
We use Oracle because our customers demand it. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002 -
Christian Graus wrote: Did you know that you pay per *processor* for SQL Server ? Put it in a dual processor box, your price more than doubles. Yes, which is way I am SOOOO thankful that there is the Blessed Company Store... $30 for XP Professional ($20 for upgrade)... $150 for Visual Studio Enterprise Developer edition, etc. etc.
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I think the reason for this is that MS technologies run only on PC, while Java can run on something like this :beer:
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: while Java can run on something like this The question is, what is it? :) Seriously though, I've worked on big systesm but "576 GB memory per system" :eek: So has anyone worked with a system this large? No, finding weather patterns doesn't count.
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My boss tells me that as we go for bigger and bigger projects, we more and more are bidding on J2EE rather than .NET projects, using Oracle. The Oracle bit tells me it's a religious decision ( Oracle sucks ), but I wonder, is it the same where you are ? Is J2EE entrenched as far as the big leagues go ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002Your description fits my situation fairly well. May Bob forgive me, but I have to agree that it does make sense for how we operate. Now we really use little of the full J2EE options (no Java Beans). But it does allow us to create the server products we need and then run under a number of server options. Due to the number of networks we have (you would not believe how many) this is very important. Also included in the equation is we pay a support company a fee for maintaining all severs 24/7 per machine. With this factored in a large Unix/Linux what ever is much cheaper than a NTxx cluster no matter what the other costs are, so case closed, we buy the bigger machine. The principle servers on the major networks is Bea WebLogic. We have a number of IPLanet and some Linux with various things on them.) We also have Oracle and I am not a fan, but there are several who I do trust thier opinions, who state the database itself is very good. You just throw out everything else that Oracle Corp offers. So for a small group MySQL may be very maintainable (and we do have pockets of usage) when it comes to data you have to trust they insist on staying with it. As for Postgres I wish I had time to experiment but just not enough hours in the day. I will say that from my limited contact support and ease of usage is better with both MySQL and Oracle than Postgres. But that is a very limited contact statement so it is not quotable if you want any value of your quotes. "I will find a new sig someday."
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Christian Graus wrote: The Oracle bit tells me it's a religious decision ( Oracle sucks ), but I wonder, is it the same where you are ? I am curious, why is your company using Oracle, is it because they need the 'features' it has? My understanding is that people use Oracle because of the extra out of the box functionality provided with it, and I am talking about complex features and solutions, and its ability to run huge(and I mean huge) databases without crumbling. Or is it just the name, or customer requirements? I would like to hear the experience of anyone with huge Oracle deployments? Christian Graus wrote: Is J2EE entrenched as far as the big leagues go ? No doubt about that, especially here on the east coast of the US.
A.A. wrote: its ability to run huge(and I mean huge) databases without crumbling. I am not a DBA but do work closely with several. They pretty much agree that the extra functionality products from Oracle stink. However they would prefer to rely on the database for anything that will grow (as you say huge,) than anything else so we use it. No name brand stigma from how I read it. "I will find a new sig someday."
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Chris Hansson wrote: When the bleeding server software from Microsoft, costs more than the hardware it runs on, many businesses see a clear case for going Linux/Java/(PostGreSQL | MySQL) on the server. I have to say I agree - the pricing on every part of Microsoft's platform, from the server to the compiler, is just obscene. Did you know that you pay per *processor* for SQL Server ? Put it in a dual processor box, your price more than doubles. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002Christian Graus wrote: Did you know that you pay per *processor* for SQL Server ? This is just one license model. You can still buy the base SQL Server with CALs or server licenses but the processor license is an unlimited connection license. So if you have a webfarm and connect to a single SQL Server box and are supporting thousands of users, then this is the option, but if just want to run a regular OLTP system, then you can still buy the CALs or server licenses.
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:rolleyes:
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk "Apart from my kids, I have no sleeping problems" - Christian Graus
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Christian Graus wrote: The Oracle bit tells me it's a religious decision ( Oracle sucks ), but I wonder, is it the same where you are ? I am curious, why is your company using Oracle, is it because they need the 'features' it has? My understanding is that people use Oracle because of the extra out of the box functionality provided with it, and I am talking about complex features and solutions, and its ability to run huge(and I mean huge) databases without crumbling. Or is it just the name, or customer requirements? I would like to hear the experience of anyone with huge Oracle deployments? Christian Graus wrote: Is J2EE entrenched as far as the big leagues go ? No doubt about that, especially here on the east coast of the US.
It really depends on what you're doing. Oracle may be expensive, but it is very stable and has many features that make huge systems easier to manage. - Joshua Nussbaum MCSD, Oracle DBA
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Chris Hansson wrote: When the bleeding server software from Microsoft, costs more than the hardware it runs on, many businesses see a clear case for going Linux/Java/(PostGreSQL | MySQL) on the server. I have to say I agree - the pricing on every part of Microsoft's platform, from the server to the compiler, is just obscene. Did you know that you pay per *processor* for SQL Server ? Put it in a dual processor box, your price more than doubles. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002Christian Graus wrote: I have to say I agree - the pricing on every part of Microsoft's platform, from the server to the compiler, is just obscene. Did you know that you pay per *processor* for SQL Server ? Put it in a dual processor box, your price more than doubles. MS just copied this licensing model from IBM. But the most stupid licensing model I've seen to date is from SSA-NAME3[^]; they charge for the "processing power" you have on the machine. Their price list actually has a list of servers and a price, and, for custom built servers they have a program which measures the "processing power" of the machine, so they can put a price on their software. It's a pity they are so stupid, their product is just great. I see dumb people