Ownage someone during a salary negotiation
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Hi Guys Does anybody care to share some tips on how to do a killer negotiation for wages during a job interview ? I got screwed over more than once by recruitment agencies ? Even jokes are welcome I just want to kick back a bit and get some clear perspective
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
Most agencies charge 30% on top of your rate which turns your rate into an astronomical rate when presented to the client. Step 1 is discovering who the client is and a good guesstimate of what they will pay, Step 2 negotiate rate before submission so you can still pursue other vendors. Step 3, like so many vendors have done to me, bait and switch. I will now tell you the secret to the bait and switch: Tell the company that is actually doing the hiring (usually the hiring manager, direct) that you are taking the position. This way the agency can't come to them and say, "Candidate X has declined your offer". This tactic puts the squeeze in the middle. Giving you better leverage. I have never bait and switched my rate but the way things are going I may have to start.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
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Have you tried strategically placing a gun on the table?
I are n00b.
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Chona1171 wrote:
I got screwed over more than once by recruitment agencies
Don't use recruitment agencies... Especially the ones who find you on sites like LinkedIn, most of those "agencies" are just generating body counts and are more interested in selling their services to companies than they are in getting you a job you like.
It was broke, so I fixed it.
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Utilize the power of silence[^]. Not the sound of silence, the power of silence.
Henry Minute Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is. Cogito ergo thumb - Sucking my thumb helps me to think.
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Chona1171 wrote:
I got screwed over more than once by recruitment agencies
Don't use recruitment agencies... Especially the ones who find you on sites like LinkedIn, most of those "agencies" are just generating body counts and are more interested in selling their services to companies than they are in getting you a job you like.
It was broke, so I fixed it.
Something else to keep in mind, is recruiters don't work for the applicant. They are hired by or competing to fill the position for the company that has the job. Think of them as an extension of the company themselves. They can be useful and have access to some jobs the general public cannot access.
All of my software is powered by a single Watt.
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Hi Guys Does anybody care to share some tips on how to do a killer negotiation for wages during a job interview ? I got screwed over more than once by recruitment agencies ? Even jokes are welcome I just want to kick back a bit and get some clear perspective
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
Patrick McKenzie recently wrote a really good article on just this topic. Highly recommended. http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/[^]
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Hi Guys Does anybody care to share some tips on how to do a killer negotiation for wages during a job interview ? I got screwed over more than once by recruitment agencies ? Even jokes are welcome I just want to kick back a bit and get some clear perspective
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
It is very simple in concept, but can be difficult until you practice a bit. 1) First person to name their price, loses. You see that printed everywhere there is a negotiation aritcle. It's true. How do you avoid naming your price? Redirect the question. First of all, if you are asked your salary requirements before you know the full details of the job it is simple enough to say, "I would like to find out more about what I will be expected to do". You can always say "I will consider any reasonable offer the work required." This is the answer you should tell the recruiter. You can use "Salary is only one component of the total compensation, tell me about the benefits and perks." The point, keep pushing the question back to get them to continue to answer more. 2) Set the trap: First it helps to find out if the person who is asking this is in charge of if you get the job or not. When you dance around the question for so long, and they just dont seem to want to name their price, start asking what they think of you. The general concept is a dialog that looks like this: Intervier(I): "So what are your salary requirements?" You(Y): "Let me ask you a question first. Based on what I have told you so far, how well do you think my skills match the candidate you are looking for to fill the position." I: "You seem like a very good fit" Y: "I assume you have salary range in mind for what you are willing to pay for this position, can you tell me what that is?" This is a very difficult question to ask, but once you have done it a few times, it becomes very natural. I: "Yes we do, but I cannot tell you" Y: "Well you say I am a great fit, I would expect to be at the top of your range you are willing to pay, what is that?" keep pressing, rewording, stick to your guns. I have had great success with this. You also have much more power if you are willing to walk away from an offer. That is why the best time to look for a job is when you dont need one. Because cant always be that fortunate. Good Luck
All of my software is powered by a single Watt.
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Hi Guys Does anybody care to share some tips on how to do a killer negotiation for wages during a job interview ? I got screwed over more than once by recruitment agencies ? Even jokes are welcome I just want to kick back a bit and get some clear perspective
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
For engineering, my experience is that most places don't bother negotiating except in rare circumstances and rarely more than a few thousand. In part that's because engineering managers typically don't like negotiating and start with competitive offers (it's in their interest--if they want a raise, the best thing to do is hire people close to their salary.) The big exception is if you have a specific, rare skill that the company truly needs. Even then, you have to be careful that you offer a reasonable salary if you want to keep your job once your initial task is done.
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Hi Guys Does anybody care to share some tips on how to do a killer negotiation for wages during a job interview ? I got screwed over more than once by recruitment agencies ? Even jokes are welcome I just want to kick back a bit and get some clear perspective
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
Chona1171 wrote:
tips on how to do a killer negotiation for wages during a job interview ?
Do your homework, many tools are there to establish what is the average pay rate for the job you're interested in - don't walk into an interview without that knowledge first hand. Research the company as much as possible. Early in the interview (before any compensation is ever touched) try to find out what challenges is the hiring company facing, are you replacing someone or is it a new position? what are their expectations if hired? - good companies will be candid about that, those who go into vague mode you should keep your eyes open for. So get the average figure, if you feel more than capable for the job go ahead and pad it 20% up as someone else suggested and start working from there - remember that is not just a number, the compensation should take in account your track record at any given abilities being sought by the hiring company. -- RP
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Hi Guys Does anybody care to share some tips on how to do a killer negotiation for wages during a job interview ? I got screwed over more than once by recruitment agencies ? Even jokes are welcome I just want to kick back a bit and get some clear perspective
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
We are geeks, not sales people, we are not used to selling and negotiating, so we are not so good at "selling" ourselves, and employers take advantage of this. I wish I had more skill in this area. If the potential employers do not know you, if you are just another generic engineer and your productivity is unknown to them, then you are in a tough spot. They will want to stick with their typical salary for your degree+experience, etc. You can't argue that you are a "super awesome hard working programmer", because they don't really know you. On the other hand, by the time they make you an offer, they have invested some time into you, so you can usually get something out of them, even if it is not a big salary increase. There are other things to negotiate for besides money. Sometimes they just cannot negotiate on salary, but maybe they can give you more vacation time or a signing bonus, etc. - Read everything you can on the web about negotiating. I see some very good info from other people here. - Hit youtube. The videos may help to drive home things text would not. If you have time, search for "Sales Techniques", it is the same sort of thing. - If you can, practice. If you can get a friend (preferably a salesman or similar) to take you seriously, you could learn a lot in 15 minutes. - No matter what they offer at first, act disappointed. They will be reading your face, so immediately making them think you are not happy will put them in a position where they need to respond. - No matter what, I suggest refusing to give them an answer immediately, ask for "time to think about it". Hopefully they will interpret this as "time to do more interviews" and increase their offer. The only thing you are bringing to the table is...you. If they do not think you are willing to walk away, you have no leverage.
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I built a motion tracking sentry gun a few months back maybe it be be perfect buddy to bring with :laugh:
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
I'm claiming prior art. You must destroy all plans, components, prototypes, and any other related material... Check it...[^]
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Hi Guys Does anybody care to share some tips on how to do a killer negotiation for wages during a job interview ? I got screwed over more than once by recruitment agencies ? Even jokes are welcome I just want to kick back a bit and get some clear perspective
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
If you're realistic about what you're actually worth in real-world dollars (taking into account the nature of the company and their ability to meet your salary requirements), there won't be any negotiation necessary. You'll say "I want this much", and they'll either agree or not.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
I'm claiming prior art. You must destroy all plans, components, prototypes, and any other related material... Check it...[^]
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997Under which patent, are you from Apple ? My design , spec and mechanisms is out of my own design. Thus far there has been plenty military and indy application of an idea of your prior art / idea. Check it: http://www.paintballsentry.com/[^] http://letsmakerobots.com/node/22279[^] http://hackaday.com/2009/06/26/automated-paintball-sentry/[^] http://hackedgadgets.com/2009/04/12/paintball-sentry-multiple-enemy-tracking/[^] And lets not forget those time old classic games that implement some manner of "your" prior art Half Life Portal Every single tower defense game. ect ... ect.... So for your request , no thank you
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
