How do you get your first job?
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I don't party. Occasionally (maybe once a month if that) my girlfriend, my best friend, and I will play a Mario Party drinking game... that's about as wild as I get lol. The only big hobby I have right now is Backpacking. I bought some really good ones for my birthday along with a professional water filter. It helps me to work off my programmer's gut. Problem is, I don't have a job so I can rarely afford the like $30 dollars it takes to go. (gas + food) Money is a big factor for why I posted this. I feel like if I can get a job programming, I'd be motivated to perform well in my job. Where as retail... I'm just going to be doing it for the money.
Because you're using your name on the Internet, I'd also be weary of providing too much personal information which can easily be found through a simple Google search. I think the next up-and-coming generation has been caught up in sharing their lives on the internet. They have lost sight of the general bent most people have to judge/generalize others, especially others who may be looking to hire them.
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Those are examples of people that left school to pursue their own companies. They wouldn't be applying for an entry level job. And if they did, they probably would not have been good employees. So yeah, I wouldn't hire someone without a degree that is expecting to walk into an entry level dev job, I'd assume they wouldn't last. Even Ellison, who worked odd jobs as a developer after dropping out, bounced around so much he would've been a bad hire.
Fair comment but not everyone goes down the degree path and I wouldn't exclude someone simply because of that.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Because you're using your name on the Internet, I'd also be weary of providing too much personal information which can easily be found through a simple Google search. I think the next up-and-coming generation has been caught up in sharing their lives on the internet. They have lost sight of the general bent most people have to judge/generalize others, especially others who may be looking to hire them.
Eh, someone found out my complete info when I did my hacking under another name. Past 3 addresses, where I went to school, etc. There is no anonymity on the internet. No sense in worrying. If an employer doesn't hire me for anything in this thread, I don't want to work for them anyways. : /
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I've been programming since I was in middle school nine years (almost 10) ago. I've known since then that this was the career for me. The only problem is, I can't find my first job. It doesn't help that I'm in a small town with no programming jobs. I'm slowly working towards a degree but due to two bad years, I feel I'm falling behind. I'm 22... I should have graduated by now but I haven't even earned my associates degree. I don't know if I can make it through 3 more years of college. It's very tempting to save up some money and just move to a big city with lots of jobs (like Seattle) but I'd have no guarantee that I'd get a job. I'm so bored with my life. I want to earn a living programming. How do you get your first programming job? <.>
Don't worry, I started off college rocky. To be honest the degree isn't necessary. If you think you have the chops, start consulting while in school to build your experience and you may never need a real job. Heck, if you want to work for free I even have a start-up you can code on.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
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Fair comment but not everyone goes down the degree path and I wouldn't exclude someone simply because of that.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
Unless they have another way to prove they can commit to some task for at least 4 years, I will exclude them. A previous job for this long would be fine for me, but then again, they probably wouldn't be seeking entry level work, so that would raise a flag, too.
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I've been programming since I was in middle school nine years (almost 10) ago. I've known since then that this was the career for me. The only problem is, I can't find my first job. It doesn't help that I'm in a small town with no programming jobs. I'm slowly working towards a degree but due to two bad years, I feel I'm falling behind. I'm 22... I should have graduated by now but I haven't even earned my associates degree. I don't know if I can make it through 3 more years of college. It's very tempting to save up some money and just move to a big city with lots of jobs (like Seattle) but I'd have no guarantee that I'd get a job. I'm so bored with my life. I want to earn a living programming. How do you get your first programming job? <.>
I got my career start because I was in school. One of my instructors offered me a job at another college where he also worked, doing lab tech work. After a year of that, another instructor asked me to come to work at his primary employer, General Dynamics. Most of the really capable instructors at my college had real jobs; the academics were pretty much useless. After I graduated, GD kept me on until I got tired of being stuck there. Had I not stuck out the tedium of 5 years of college, I'd probably still be tossing pizzas for a living. Give it a shot - you're still a kid. Move out while it's still fairly easy to move back home. Try a big city for a while, take a break for a year, then get your ass back in school and graduate. You'll probably find better schools in a bigger city, as well, and you'll certainly find more jobs and better pay. Just don't take too long a break, as it will only get harder to go back to class.
Will Rogers never met me.
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Unless they have another way to prove they can commit to some task for at least 4 years, I will exclude them. A previous job for this long would be fine for me, but then again, they probably wouldn't be seeking entry level work, so that would raise a flag, too.
Your job, your rules but I like to give people a chance to prove themselves, especially youngsters. I know plenty that got themselves through university despite themselves and the only commitment they showed was to having a good time. BTW, most degrees in the UK are 3 years (still a year too long really, Why are they 4 years here? Universities not making enough money?)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Up
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "But you probably have the smoothest scrotum of any grown man" - Pete O'Hanlon (2012) -
madre
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011) "But you probably have the smoothest scrotum of any grown man" - Pete O'Hanlon (2012) -
Unless they have another way to prove they can commit to some task for at least 4 years, I will exclude them. A previous job for this long would be fine for me, but then again, they probably wouldn't be seeking entry level work, so that would raise a flag, too.
OOhh, so working for you is so terrible that you want someone who'll look like they'll stay no matter how bad it gets.
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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OOhh, so working for you is so terrible that you want someone who'll look like they'll stay no matter how bad it gets.
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
They leave when he starts doing stand-up in tech meetings. :-)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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OOhh, so working for you is so terrible that you want someone who'll look like they'll stay no matter how bad it gets.
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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Your job, your rules but I like to give people a chance to prove themselves, especially youngsters. I know plenty that got themselves through university despite themselves and the only commitment they showed was to having a good time. BTW, most degrees in the UK are 3 years (still a year too long really, Why are they 4 years here? Universities not making enough money?)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
mark merrens wrote:
Your job, your rules but I like to give people a chance to prove themselves, especially youngsters.
I'd say that's fine if it's your company, but at most companies, you get judged by the performance of who you hire. I wouldn't put my ass on the line to give a guy who didn't go to college (or as I mentioned earlier, has no decent amount of work experience)a chance to prove anything.
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They leave when he starts doing stand-up in tech meetings. :-)
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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I've been programming since I was in middle school nine years (almost 10) ago. I've known since then that this was the career for me. The only problem is, I can't find my first job. It doesn't help that I'm in a small town with no programming jobs. I'm slowly working towards a degree but due to two bad years, I feel I'm falling behind. I'm 22... I should have graduated by now but I haven't even earned my associates degree. I don't know if I can make it through 3 more years of college. It's very tempting to save up some money and just move to a big city with lots of jobs (like Seattle) but I'd have no guarantee that I'd get a job. I'm so bored with my life. I want to earn a living programming. How do you get your first programming job? <.>
With no degree internships are what you want to aim for. Most are paid (I haven't heard of any in this field that aren't), and generally not bad pay either (I only work 8 hours a week and it covers my rent). Don't limit yourself to your local area for summer internships, some companies will cover expenses for you to work in a different city. As for my first job, I got lucky really, I applied for an internship the summer of my freshmen year of college, they called me back, did a phone interview, and I got the job and worked there for 10 weeks. The next year I entered a local programming contest, won second place and got the internship at the company hosting the competition, and I'm still working there a year later. But my experience isn't typical, most people can't get hired until their sophomore or junior year (at least around here), and they apply for a lot more internships than I did.
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You, sir, underestimate how much I enjoy programming. XD I worked for weeks with very little sleep when I did that stuff on the PS3 I can't really talk about <.<; >.>; And I did that for FREE! (Well... someone donated me $50 but that doesn't count.)
No, because I've been there, done that, got the T shirt and eaten the cast - probably like most of the people here. But that is not sustainable. It is a recipe for burnout and personal disaster. You need down time, you need a life outside work. If you don't - you will suffer in the long term. But nothing I say will change your mind! :laugh:
Ideological Purity is no substitute for being able to stick your thumb down a pipe to stop the water
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mark merrens wrote:
Your job, your rules but I like to give people a chance to prove themselves, especially youngsters.
I'd say that's fine if it's your company, but at most companies, you get judged by the performance of who you hire. I wouldn't put my ass on the line to give a guy who didn't go to college (or as I mentioned earlier, has no decent amount of work experience)a chance to prove anything.
That's the thing though... what's the person that can't afford the $20k it costs per year supposed to do? Especially if congress decides to double loan interest rates. How is that person supposed to get work experience to get the job? It's a never ending cycle. They can't get the experience to get the job that would BE good experience. Give the guy a chance. The fact is, you give a test to that guy with the degree right?... why not give the test to the guy without one. If he does just as well or better, then what does the guy who has a degree have over him? Proof that he can pay for a piece of paper? It doesn't mean he learned anything more than the other guy. It sucks how much money matters in this world. I'm going to have to fork out $40 k (minus scholarships if I get any) to get a *chance* at supporting myself. And that's not including interest. <.>
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I don't party. Occasionally (maybe once a month if that) my girlfriend, my best friend, and I will play a Mario Party drinking game... that's about as wild as I get lol. The only big hobby I have right now is Backpacking. I bought some really good ones for my birthday along with a professional water filter. It helps me to work off my programmer's gut. Problem is, I don't have a job so I can rarely afford the like $30 dollars it takes to go. (gas + food) Money is a big factor for why I posted this. I feel like if I can get a job programming, I'd be motivated to perform well in my job. Where as retail... I'm just going to be doing it for the money.
Stephen Dycus wrote:
Where as retail... I'm just going to be doing it for the money.
Nothing wrong with that! When I was working as a janitor, every time I cleaned a toilet I'd think about why I was studying. And when the studying got tough, I'd think about cleaning toilets the rest of my life. There's no doubt - the only reason I did it was for the money. (Of course now I clean the toilet when my wife tells me to. ;P )
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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My good looks, wit, and charm won the day for me. That was over 30 years ago. It won't be long before I can no longer rely on just being pretty.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997yeah but now you can just tell em that you have went green and drive a Prius..... sorry couldn't resist a shot
Common sense is not a gift it's a curse. Those of us who have it have to deal with those that don't.... Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
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That's the thing though... what's the person that can't afford the $20k it costs per year supposed to do? Especially if congress decides to double loan interest rates. How is that person supposed to get work experience to get the job? It's a never ending cycle. They can't get the experience to get the job that would BE good experience. Give the guy a chance. The fact is, you give a test to that guy with the degree right?... why not give the test to the guy without one. If he does just as well or better, then what does the guy who has a degree have over him? Proof that he can pay for a piece of paper? It doesn't mean he learned anything more than the other guy. It sucks how much money matters in this world. I'm going to have to fork out $40 k (minus scholarships if I get any) to get a *chance* at supporting myself. And that's not including interest. <.>
It costs muuuuch less than 20k per year to go to junior college. Let's say you do 2 years to finish your degree, that's only 40k. Have you done the math on what your loan repayments will be per month on 40k and what your expected post grad income is? You'll be able to afford it. I also worked, sometimes really shit jobs, to get through college, so it took a while. There is nothing wrong with that. Otherwise, as I've mentioned, have you worked somewhere for 4 years straight or have any other way to prove commitment? That would be the only time I'd interview someone without a degree.
