Is it wrong...
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The OP believes in the client keeping his word, which he didn't. This has nothing to do with anything the OP did wrong or with an methodology. Since the client doesn't want to pay the bill, the only option is to record the entire conversation in video and play it back for them when they get upitty. I very recently went the through the same thing myself with a Vice President. He kept changing the requirements on me on the day of release, after betas, testing and approvals, 4 straight times. When you're deploying the app to 10,000 machines, this gets a bit annoying...
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Dave KreskowiakOK - but I don't fancy working in an environment where respect, never mind trust, is not present. But then I'm lucky. I have remarked in this thread that I have reviewed disputes of this kind before, and in all three cases, it was a complete breakdown in understanding on both sides - not lying by one side. This may well be different.
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Your development methodology has no effect whatsoever when your client is a lying sack of dung. They can be 'engaged', and a 'stakeholder', and 'part of the process', but if they decide to stiff you, they're going to do it anyway. The only way I've found to deal with this problem is to bill them often as the work proceeds. If they stop paying, I stop working, and I'm never more than one billing cycle in the hole.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Your development methodology has no effect whatsoever when your client is a lying sack of dung. They can be 'engaged', and a 'stakeholder', and 'part of the process', but if they decide to stiff you, they're going to do it anyway. The only way I've found to deal with this problem is to bill them often as the work proceeds. If they stop paying, I stop working, and I'm never more than one billing cycle in the hole.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Mark Nischalke wrote:
rip the arms off your client and beat them with the bloody appendages
Only after they've paid you, oh, and given recommendations, then it's OK. (They need their arms to write the check, and fingers to type the recommendation... that sort of stuff.) :-D
It was broke, so I fixed it.
On the other hand ( :laugh: ), I hear that arms and legs are going for lots of $$$ on the body parts black market :~
Steve _________________ I C(++) therefore I am
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OK - but I don't fancy working in an environment where respect, never mind trust, is not present. But then I'm lucky. I have remarked in this thread that I have reviewed disputes of this kind before, and in all three cases, it was a complete breakdown in understanding on both sides - not lying by one side. This may well be different.
There was no breakdown in my case. It was a VP handing down "I've changed my mind" documents, signed of course, saying "you WILL do this". Oh, and the production deployment date never changed. The last (and biggest) design overhaul came 2 days before going to production. Yeah, there's a lot of time to recode and test on a dozen different platforms...
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak -
There was no breakdown in my case. It was a VP handing down "I've changed my mind" documents, signed of course, saying "you WILL do this". Oh, and the production deployment date never changed. The last (and biggest) design overhaul came 2 days before going to production. Yeah, there's a lot of time to recode and test on a dozen different platforms...
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak -
That will work, but doesn't sound a lot of fun working for a client who is a lying sack of dung. Why do you do it?
All clients have the potential for being lying sacks of dung. They usually don't exercise it immediately, which is why you can end up in that situation. I've only had to use my solution to the problem once. In that case, the client was a university professor who didn't want to deal with his institution's bureaucracy to ensure I got paid on a timely basis. I had to 'down tools' in order to get his attention.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Read it, and I agree with it. OP seems to believe that agreeing requirments solves the problem - it doesn't.
What am I thinking now? Oh, that's right you can't read my mind and don't know what I believe.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
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Agreed - don't dispute the OP's view, but the client may have an equally valid view of the world. I was called in to look into a similar situation, and I found that neither "side" was lying. Waterfall requires "sides" and while it works well lots of times, it doesn't guarantee that the parties won't finish up accusing teh other of lying.
You seem to be saying that Agile methodologies don't expect to have requirements and agreements. Nothing could be further from reality. Agile may not have the same strict process as Waterfall but it still has a process and documentation requirements. If you are trying to complete a project with no documentation then you are truly a fool. I deny starting this thread. What methodology would make this statement less false?
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
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So the client denies that the signature is his? Or are you talking about a virtual signature?
Electronic signatures audited by a high grade document repository system and multiple meeting notes and in the presence of multiple people.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
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You seem to be saying that Agile methodologies don't expect to have requirements and agreements. Nothing could be further from reality. Agile may not have the same strict process as Waterfall but it still has a process and documentation requirements. If you are trying to complete a project with no documentation then you are truly a fool. I deny starting this thread. What methodology would make this statement less false?
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
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What am I thinking now? Oh, that's right you can't read my mind and don't know what I believe.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
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He will say no signy->no redesigny-> no money although if this is the case you better loose the money than be a slave for free.
Alberto Bar-Noy --------------- “The city’s central computer told you? R2D2, you know better than to trust a strange computer!” (C3PO)
Alberto Bar-Noy wrote:
better loose the money than be a slave for free.
my thoughts exactly. Assuming you can handle the loss of funds of course.. then again, sounds like there would be no funds anyway so no loss.... :-D
Common sense is not a gift it's a curse. Those of us who have it have to deal with those that don't.... Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
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What is this "bonus" thing you speak of??
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak -
...to want to rip the arms off your client and beat them with the bloody appendages? I'd say beat them senseless, but they already are. Four months of requirements, design, coding, testing and multiple review sessions and now, once in production, the client wants a major redesign and flatly refuses to acknowledge sign-off on requirements and design, even denies any meetings or conversations that have taken place regarding the functionality. I'm seriously considering wearing a video camera and microphone any time I'm with the client.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
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What is not written does not exist. Have you protocolled the meetingsd, and have him signed the specifications ?