What about W8?
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I've been watching the blogs and info about W8 and how it is so different than W7, gets rid of the desktop, etc. I haven't tried it yet, mainly because I'm not sure I have a spare PC to wipe and install. However, some of the information being passed around seems pretty alarming. I do desktop engineering applications using WinForms and there is no way that these could be done on a tablet or smart phone, because there just isn't enough screen space to show everything. I've tried using my apps on a netbook and they are painful to use to say the least. There's just too much to display for an integrated engineering evaluation system. I've thought about porting everything to Linux (last time I tried, it seemed to run OK with Wine, etc.), but that brings up other issues. Turning the system into web apps seems to be out of the question for various reasons, including the massive amounts of data that would need to be transferred, high compute performance needs, and data security concerns. Is anyone else concerned about Microsoft's apparent abandonment of us desktop developers? Are the press and bloggers complaining about nothing? What plans do other desktop developers have for dealing with W8 when it comes out? Or am I just misunderstanding the whole issue?
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
I've tried all the preview versions of Win8 on a test machine except the latest release preview. I've downloaded it but haven't installed it yet. I hope it's 1000 times better than the ones I've seen so far. One issue - I am constantly cutting and pasting information from one document to another. Win8 (at least the versions I've tried so far) brings every application up full screen so that is no longer possible. And, just shutting down your PC is, like, a five step process - if you can even find it in the first place. :thumbsdown: What a cluster. Let's start a petition to bring back Windows ME, BOB and Clippy... ;P
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I've tried all the preview versions of Win8 on a test machine except the latest release preview. I've downloaded it but haven't installed it yet. I hope it's 1000 times better than the ones I've seen so far. One issue - I am constantly cutting and pasting information from one document to another. Win8 (at least the versions I've tried so far) brings every application up full screen so that is no longer possible. And, just shutting down your PC is, like, a five step process - if you can even find it in the first place. :thumbsdown: What a cluster. Let's start a petition to bring back Windows ME, BOB and Clippy... ;P
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Oh, please feel free to let me know which point you seem not understand. What's a pity is I can't attach a flowchart here for Wins series' development from Dos up to the coming Wins8 & WinsServer8, from WinsCE, WinsMobile5 till to the new black horse "WinsPhone7.5" or the coming WinsPhone8 or WinsPhone8Pro. However, at least three points I can state clear here: You know, Tablet is initiated by Microsoft through her Eng Version of WinsXpPro(Tablet with Touchscreen); even in Wins98, Fujitsu had already produced a 12.1" notebook with Touchscreen. However, present winner is iPad instead of WinsPad even Acer W501 was produced as a computer and eventually pushed to the market far before The New iPad but such 3rd version of iPad is user friendly more easier to use than Wins7 as Wins7 has its own historical (mouse oriented operation) limitation's background! The second point is: Microsoft had run so fast & frontier to the market but she had not fine tuned her WinsMobile6.5 which was also limited by her thinking or creative. She always create thing with complicated, slowly and need us to chase something like Intel's hardware again & again! If not complicated, IT has no value to learn, then Microsoft can't issue renewable licenses or certificates again and again & hardware is not worth to upgrade & upgrade at all! However, think about iPhone's previous success. What's a pity is iPhone is so monopoly versus Android is so opened to consumers' orientation. Yes, WinsPhone maybe the black horse one day as which stands between them. Both benefits from programmers & consumers can gain from it. However, she maybe so late to enter into market and WinsPhone7.5 is not stable at this moment! Unless she can win Galaxy SIII, SIV, Asus Panphone Transformer (Mixture & Separator of Phone+Pad), iPhone5 by her WinsPhone8/8Pro. Otherwise she will totally lose her phone's market! As Android is already the king of mobile and she may win iPad also (through her Android4 / ChromeOS ) in the coming Pad/Tablet or even PC's market. Cloud server may not be safe for human eventually and OS with Application Software may still be mainly controlled back by enterprises & personal users for avoiding to depend on broadband furthermore (save broadband cost, being internet controlled & upgradable software's costs & confidential information)! Third point is : Apple seems to forgo her X-Server's series from MacBookPro's server version. She uses iPhone to iPad to MacAir to MacBook to MacBookPro to MacServer to keep fat by herself just starting f
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I've been watching the blogs and info about W8 and how it is so different than W7, gets rid of the desktop, etc. I haven't tried it yet, mainly because I'm not sure I have a spare PC to wipe and install. However, some of the information being passed around seems pretty alarming. I do desktop engineering applications using WinForms and there is no way that these could be done on a tablet or smart phone, because there just isn't enough screen space to show everything. I've tried using my apps on a netbook and they are painful to use to say the least. There's just too much to display for an integrated engineering evaluation system. I've thought about porting everything to Linux (last time I tried, it seemed to run OK with Wine, etc.), but that brings up other issues. Turning the system into web apps seems to be out of the question for various reasons, including the massive amounts of data that would need to be transferred, high compute performance needs, and data security concerns. Is anyone else concerned about Microsoft's apparent abandonment of us desktop developers? Are the press and bloggers complaining about nothing? What plans do other desktop developers have for dealing with W8 when it comes out? Or am I just misunderstanding the whole issue?
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
"about W8 and how it is so different than W7, gets rid of the desktop, etc" Ive been using Win 8 for a couple months now, the desktop is still there and that's where I spend most of my time, what is different from win7 is the new metro apps that run outside the desktop (think of the desktop as an app) and the start screen (which is kinda cool once you get used to it) "I do desktop engineering applications using WinForms and there is no way that these could be done on a tablet or smart phone, because there just isn't enough screen space to show everything." Agree with you, the new metro design thing its probably not for this kinds of applications but we should probably look at the problem of our own design ideas (after years of designing windows forms changing the whole layout of things its kinda hard to imagine but not impossible) the metro apps really give you a greater user experience than a desktop app "Turning the system into web apps seems to be out of the question for various reasons, including the massive amounts of data that would need to be transferred, high compute performance needs, and data security concerns." Ive been developing metro apps and they are far from being "web apps" they run locally like a desktop app would. I think this is a big shift from what we are all used to but I believe that as a developer I shouldn't close myself to new ways of doing things, probably the new metro design stuff and philosophy its not right for your apps but then again...I think the desktop is dying and if you stick with it...well...you're not gonna die but your opportunities probably will.
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Yes, you're right. I'm just a Chinese guy in using my poor English to talk with you. How about you? Nevertheless, nice to get your response till to now! Wish you all the best :)
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I've been watching the blogs and info about W8 and how it is so different than W7, gets rid of the desktop, etc. I haven't tried it yet, mainly because I'm not sure I have a spare PC to wipe and install. However, some of the information being passed around seems pretty alarming. I do desktop engineering applications using WinForms and there is no way that these could be done on a tablet or smart phone, because there just isn't enough screen space to show everything. I've tried using my apps on a netbook and they are painful to use to say the least. There's just too much to display for an integrated engineering evaluation system. I've thought about porting everything to Linux (last time I tried, it seemed to run OK with Wine, etc.), but that brings up other issues. Turning the system into web apps seems to be out of the question for various reasons, including the massive amounts of data that would need to be transferred, high compute performance needs, and data security concerns. Is anyone else concerned about Microsoft's apparent abandonment of us desktop developers? Are the press and bloggers complaining about nothing? What plans do other desktop developers have for dealing with W8 when it comes out? Or am I just misunderstanding the whole issue?
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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"about W8 and how it is so different than W7, gets rid of the desktop, etc" Ive been using Win 8 for a couple months now, the desktop is still there and that's where I spend most of my time, what is different from win7 is the new metro apps that run outside the desktop (think of the desktop as an app) and the start screen (which is kinda cool once you get used to it) "I do desktop engineering applications using WinForms and there is no way that these could be done on a tablet or smart phone, because there just isn't enough screen space to show everything." Agree with you, the new metro design thing its probably not for this kinds of applications but we should probably look at the problem of our own design ideas (after years of designing windows forms changing the whole layout of things its kinda hard to imagine but not impossible) the metro apps really give you a greater user experience than a desktop app "Turning the system into web apps seems to be out of the question for various reasons, including the massive amounts of data that would need to be transferred, high compute performance needs, and data security concerns." Ive been developing metro apps and they are far from being "web apps" they run locally like a desktop app would. I think this is a big shift from what we are all used to but I believe that as a developer I shouldn't close myself to new ways of doing things, probably the new metro design stuff and philosophy its not right for your apps but then again...I think the desktop is dying and if you stick with it...well...you're not gonna die but your opportunities probably will.
Thanks for the info. I'm not averse to changing a paradigm, but most of that depends on my clients and how much work is involved in the change, versus, of course, the long term benefits.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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Hello again. My granddaughters call my son's wife Joma. The also speak a few words of Chinese. I've visited Taiwan but never mainland China. You folks have something better than Windows - you have the Great Wall! :omg:
Hi! Bud (Joma's father-in-law), My name is Paul Wong, please feel free to call me, "Paul". You're welcome to visit China one day! Regarding to the prospect of Windows, I don't think any OS can compete with it especially in workstation & server market at this moment! I just afraid that she seems already fail in mobile, pad & tablet market. If she cannot grasp her UltraNetBook, Notebook market, she will get lost further. One day, she will lose her laptop, desktop and even server market! The key turning point & most important battle is : iPhone5 vs Galaxy SIII-2nd vs Asus's Panphone vs cWinsPhone8Pro; The New iPad vs Asus's Panphone vs cWins8Pro; MacServerOS vs ChromeOS vs cWinsServer8. However, if cWinsPhone7.5 cannot upgrade to cWinsPhone8Pro, she will lose another followers. Indeed, I love Windows so much but I may need to change it to an all-in-one OS and which should be highly used in enterprise market with lowest cost. :laugh: Yours truly, Paul
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Thanks for the info. I'm not averse to changing a paradigm, but most of that depends on my clients and how much work is involved in the change, versus, of course, the long term benefits.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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Walt Fair, Jr. wrote:
What plans do other desktop developers have for dealing with W8 when it comes out?
Pretend it doesn't exist and continue as normal. I installed the new preview of W8 in a VM last night...instead of instructing you to click things, it tells you to touch them, confirming my suspicion that MS has forgotten that desktops still exist. Clearly they get all their information from the numerous incorrect news stories that say the desktop is dead and replaced by tablets. :doh:
They are not abandoning desktops. They are answering the market trend to touch screen desktops, and at the same time streamlining the OS for use on different devices to maintain continuity in functionality, UI, and ease of use. I have been testing it since the first beta, and now my touch screen monitor works seamlessly with it. I have found that navigation is faster and it still allows for the use of the KB and mouse. They know they will not be away from desktops for a long time to come. Many businesses will not be able to transition to tablets alone for a while, perhaps never for some. Regardless of the user experience, IT departments and administrators will always need the power of a desktop for network administration and server maintenance. Tablets and even most laptops do not have the power or longevity to handle heavy tasks, and moreover cannot be run for long periods of time (eg days, weeks, or even months) continuously. I also find that your premonition of abandoning the desktop is odd since you are on a programming resource site, and if you are a developer, you may have noticed that good development, even test-driven design, doesn't bode well on tablets or even laptops. It requires a powerful desktop. I tried on an I5 3.2gHz laptop, and it crapped out after 15 hours of continuous load compiling and testing. I had to move back to a desktop with an I7 3.6GHz with 12 gig using win 7 and win 8 64bit just to mesh C# with Metro and not get irritated by the latency from the limitations of a laptop. Basically, good programmers will always need a powerful desktop... At least in the foreseeable future.
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They are not abandoning desktops. They are answering the market trend to touch screen desktops, and at the same time streamlining the OS for use on different devices to maintain continuity in functionality, UI, and ease of use. I have been testing it since the first beta, and now my touch screen monitor works seamlessly with it. I have found that navigation is faster and it still allows for the use of the KB and mouse. They know they will not be away from desktops for a long time to come. Many businesses will not be able to transition to tablets alone for a while, perhaps never for some. Regardless of the user experience, IT departments and administrators will always need the power of a desktop for network administration and server maintenance. Tablets and even most laptops do not have the power or longevity to handle heavy tasks, and moreover cannot be run for long periods of time (eg days, weeks, or even months) continuously. I also find that your premonition of abandoning the desktop is odd since you are on a programming resource site, and if you are a developer, you may have noticed that good development, even test-driven design, doesn't bode well on tablets or even laptops. It requires a powerful desktop. I tried on an I5 3.2gHz laptop, and it crapped out after 15 hours of continuous load compiling and testing. I had to move back to a desktop with an I7 3.6GHz with 12 gig using win 7 and win 8 64bit just to mesh C# with Metro and not get irritated by the latency from the limitations of a laptop. Basically, good programmers will always need a powerful desktop... At least in the foreseeable future.
The problem is even (especially?) on a desktop, most people don't have touch screens. And sure, you can use a keyboard and mouse, but I (and many others I've talked to) feel that it just feels clumsy and awkward with the new interface.
MVandy wrote:
I also find that your premonition of abandoning the desktop is odd since you are on a programming resource site, and if you are a developer, you may have noticed that good development, even test-driven design, doesn't bode well on tablets or even laptops. It requires a powerful desktop.
Yes and if you read my other posts in this topic I already brought that up. Which is the reason I think they need better support for traditional mouse and keyboard users, or they'll lose developers. Without developers you have no apps, and without apps your OS is useless. Believe me, I know the desktop isn't going anywhere, I'm just not sure MS does.