Non-programming question about Java...
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So I've made my first aquintance with Java since I need it for my study at OU. I've heard some colleagues and friends say that Java is absolutely terrible, so I wasn't to happy about having to use Java. I started using JCreator (which looks nice, but is quite limited in features). After that I was introduced to Eclipse which looks a lot better. Of course the editor has nothing to do with the language, but it makes programming in it a lot more pleasant. So what did I think of Java? It's not bad. Missing the Properties of C# and the Namespace Imports (using), but they're stuff I can get used to. I could run it on my desktop or in my browser without much trouble. Am I missing something or is Java just not the horrible language I was told it is?
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
}I don't think Java is horrible. In fact, I'm quite looking forward to returning to it for Android development. Don't get me wrong - I also :love: C# and Microsoft's tools. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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So I've made my first aquintance with Java since I need it for my study at OU. I've heard some colleagues and friends say that Java is absolutely terrible, so I wasn't to happy about having to use Java. I started using JCreator (which looks nice, but is quite limited in features). After that I was introduced to Eclipse which looks a lot better. Of course the editor has nothing to do with the language, but it makes programming in it a lot more pleasant. So what did I think of Java? It's not bad. Missing the Properties of C# and the Namespace Imports (using), but they're stuff I can get used to. I could run it on my desktop or in my browser without much trouble. Am I missing something or is Java just not the horrible language I was told it is?
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
}I don't think the language is terrible, but I think the run time is a steaming pile.
CPallini wrote:
You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile:
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So I've made my first aquintance with Java since I need it for my study at OU. I've heard some colleagues and friends say that Java is absolutely terrible, so I wasn't to happy about having to use Java. I started using JCreator (which looks nice, but is quite limited in features). After that I was introduced to Eclipse which looks a lot better. Of course the editor has nothing to do with the language, but it makes programming in it a lot more pleasant. So what did I think of Java? It's not bad. Missing the Properties of C# and the Namespace Imports (using), but they're stuff I can get used to. I could run it on my desktop or in my browser without much trouble. Am I missing something or is Java just not the horrible language I was told it is?
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
}I like Java better than most of the languages invented recently. I'm not as big a fan of garbage collection as most people; I'm more impressed by things like RAII, and (having cleaned up my garbage on my own for many years) I think many people make a bigger deal out of its benefits than they ought to. As far as languages with a garbage collector go, though, Java is probably my favorite. My first impression when it was new was that Java was like a cleaned-up version of C++. My reaction to C# was similar, but C# has really grown a bit out-of-control in its own right. As for properties, I like the Java approach better: getter / setter functions are not a special case (and the programmer isn't tacitly encouraged by the language to think in terms of fields).
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loctrice wrote:
NetBeans for an IDE
I've always preferred Eclipse, but again that could be because I learned Java using Eclipse. In one of my classes my last year of college, we had a group project that was to implement a new refactoring for Eclipse. My group's refactoring was to extract duplicate code from conditional statements.
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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So I've made my first aquintance with Java since I need it for my study at OU. I've heard some colleagues and friends say that Java is absolutely terrible, so I wasn't to happy about having to use Java. I started using JCreator (which looks nice, but is quite limited in features). After that I was introduced to Eclipse which looks a lot better. Of course the editor has nothing to do with the language, but it makes programming in it a lot more pleasant. So what did I think of Java? It's not bad. Missing the Properties of C# and the Namespace Imports (using), but they're stuff I can get used to. I could run it on my desktop or in my browser without much trouble. Am I missing something or is Java just not the horrible language I was told it is?
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
}The problem isn't the language; it's what it's used for. I concentrate on C++ on Windows because it's typically used in those areas I enjoy working in. I've never bothered to learn Java because I have little to no interest in the applications for which it is used.
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So I've made my first aquintance with Java since I need it for my study at OU. I've heard some colleagues and friends say that Java is absolutely terrible, so I wasn't to happy about having to use Java. I started using JCreator (which looks nice, but is quite limited in features). After that I was introduced to Eclipse which looks a lot better. Of course the editor has nothing to do with the language, but it makes programming in it a lot more pleasant. So what did I think of Java? It's not bad. Missing the Properties of C# and the Namespace Imports (using), but they're stuff I can get used to. I could run it on my desktop or in my browser without much trouble. Am I missing something or is Java just not the horrible language I was told it is?
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
}There's nothing particularly horrible about Java at all. I don't like the syntax, but I never liked C/C++ either; that's just a personal preference. Part of the horror of Java, I suppose, is that for a long time people were trying to make it do everything, while its designers intended it to run smart coffee pots. Over time, things got better, expectations got more realistic, and the language (along with its libraries) got a lot better. Enjoy it... :-D
Will Rogers never met me.
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So I've made my first aquintance with Java since I need it for my study at OU. I've heard some colleagues and friends say that Java is absolutely terrible, so I wasn't to happy about having to use Java. I started using JCreator (which looks nice, but is quite limited in features). After that I was introduced to Eclipse which looks a lot better. Of course the editor has nothing to do with the language, but it makes programming in it a lot more pleasant. So what did I think of Java? It's not bad. Missing the Properties of C# and the Namespace Imports (using), but they're stuff I can get used to. I could run it on my desktop or in my browser without much trouble. Am I missing something or is Java just not the horrible language I was told it is?
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
}No unsigned types, they couldn't get it done in over a decade. :laugh: (They're botching some support in the new version).
Wout
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I don't think the language is terrible, but I think the run time is a steaming pile.
CPallini wrote:
You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile:
The runtime is actually a lot faster than the .NET runtime.
Wout
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I like Java better than most of the languages invented recently. I'm not as big a fan of garbage collection as most people; I'm more impressed by things like RAII, and (having cleaned up my garbage on my own for many years) I think many people make a bigger deal out of its benefits than they ought to. As far as languages with a garbage collector go, though, Java is probably my favorite. My first impression when it was new was that Java was like a cleaned-up version of C++. My reaction to C# was similar, but C# has really grown a bit out-of-control in its own right. As for properties, I like the Java approach better: getter / setter functions are not a special case (and the programmer isn't tacitly encouraged by the language to think in terms of fields).
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I'd avoid getting caught up in the typical language war. There are no horrible languages--though there are horrible combinations of languages for the task at hand. I wouldn't want perl powering the airplanes I fly in, and I wouldn't expect a full custom C-driven web site solution for a very small e-commerce site. For anything in between, just find something you enjoy and become proficient at it.
Jason Hooper wrote:
I'd avoid getting caught up in the typical language war.
I try to avoid it. I'd best not mention I'm a VB programmer... :~
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
} -
So I've made my first aquintance with Java since I need it for my study at OU. I've heard some colleagues and friends say that Java is absolutely terrible, so I wasn't to happy about having to use Java. I started using JCreator (which looks nice, but is quite limited in features). After that I was introduced to Eclipse which looks a lot better. Of course the editor has nothing to do with the language, but it makes programming in it a lot more pleasant. So what did I think of Java? It's not bad. Missing the Properties of C# and the Namespace Imports (using), but they're stuff I can get used to. I could run it on my desktop or in my browser without much trouble. Am I missing something or is Java just not the horrible language I was told it is?
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
} -
So I've made my first aquintance with Java since I need it for my study at OU. I've heard some colleagues and friends say that Java is absolutely terrible, so I wasn't to happy about having to use Java. I started using JCreator (which looks nice, but is quite limited in features). After that I was introduced to Eclipse which looks a lot better. Of course the editor has nothing to do with the language, but it makes programming in it a lot more pleasant. So what did I think of Java? It's not bad. Missing the Properties of C# and the Namespace Imports (using), but they're stuff I can get used to. I could run it on my desktop or in my browser without much trouble. Am I missing something or is Java just not the horrible language I was told it is?
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
}I like Java - maybe I am biased as it was one of my first languages (apart from C++) that I had learned. I used it a lot, both at university and professionally. This was before Microsoft.NET was around. Personally, I think it is a great language to get the basics right.
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No! The first frame of that cartoon reads "smart pointers are dumb." Smart pointers are RAII- something I actually praised in my post. I don't believe in disorganization, I just believe that having another thread constantly running a garbage collector is not necessarily the best way to avoid disorganization. Or, more subjectively, it doesn't lend itself well to the sort of applications and platforms I enjoy working with. As I've mentioned elsewhere, garbage collection results in a performance profile I would describe as fast-but-uneven, and can make it difficult to make worst-case performance guarantees. RAII (and plain old automatic variables) make more sense to me. Besides that, it doesn't ring true to me when people talk about things like "chasing memory leaks." I've spent much more of my programming career scratching my head at UML diagrams than I have chasing memory leaks (and yet few people, in "IT" at least, are trying to get rid of OOP).
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The runtime is actually a lot faster than the .NET runtime.
Wout
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I wouldn't say "absolutely terrible", there's worse stuff out there.. but I still maintain that C# is "Java done right".
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So I've made my first aquintance with Java since I need it for my study at OU. I've heard some colleagues and friends say that Java is absolutely terrible, so I wasn't to happy about having to use Java. I started using JCreator (which looks nice, but is quite limited in features). After that I was introduced to Eclipse which looks a lot better. Of course the editor has nothing to do with the language, but it makes programming in it a lot more pleasant. So what did I think of Java? It's not bad. Missing the Properties of C# and the Namespace Imports (using), but they're stuff I can get used to. I could run it on my desktop or in my browser without much trouble. Am I missing something or is Java just not the horrible language I was told it is?
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
}Just beware of objectfuscation[^]
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Just beware of objectfuscation[^]
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
return IAnswer;pIt's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
} -
So I've made my first aquintance with Java since I need it for my study at OU. I've heard some colleagues and friends say that Java is absolutely terrible, so I wasn't to happy about having to use Java. I started using JCreator (which looks nice, but is quite limited in features). After that I was introduced to Eclipse which looks a lot better. Of course the editor has nothing to do with the language, but it makes programming in it a lot more pleasant. So what did I think of Java? It's not bad. Missing the Properties of C# and the Namespace Imports (using), but they're stuff I can get used to. I could run it on my desktop or in my browser without much trouble. Am I missing something or is Java just not the horrible language I was told it is?
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
}I used Java and eclipse a lot in my last job and got to like it; it did what was expected of it. As with all languages, hardware platforms and operating systems, there are pros and cons, lovers and haters, and, worst of all, bigots.
One of these days I'm going to think of a really clever signature.
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So I've made my first aquintance with Java since I need it for my study at OU. I've heard some colleagues and friends say that Java is absolutely terrible, so I wasn't to happy about having to use Java. I started using JCreator (which looks nice, but is quite limited in features). After that I was introduced to Eclipse which looks a lot better. Of course the editor has nothing to do with the language, but it makes programming in it a lot more pleasant. So what did I think of Java? It's not bad. Missing the Properties of C# and the Namespace Imports (using), but they're stuff I can get used to. I could run it on my desktop or in my browser without much trouble. Am I missing something or is Java just not the horrible language I was told it is?
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
}I like Java. The 'big' thing that people often point out is the lack of properties. It takes a bit of getting used to but becomes second nature, everything, everything I say, is performed through a method. But it's just another language with advantages and disadvantages. If you know how to code, then it is as good, or as bad, as any other. If I need performance or low level control then I'd use C or C++, but for most jobs Java is just fine. Pick the right tool for the right job. Simples.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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There are large areas where .NET is just not very efficient, e.g. in passing around structs to methods. In theory it could be made efficient (like the java VM), but MS has shown little interest in doing so. Have a look here for some numeric performance measurements: http://www.itu.dk/people/sestoft/papers/numericperformance.pdf[^].
Wout
