Anybody else read the Java thing in the daily news?
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The thing is that Java provides the shells needed to use Java/run Java apps on any platform. DotNET doesn't provide such shells (mono, for example, is third party open-source), so you can't simply copy a DotNET program to a mac or Linux machine and just run it without jumping through several hoops. The biggest problem with Java was performance, which was easy to hold up and sneer at, so, now that its performance has been hugely improved, people are getting antsy, and publishing scare stories that will just make Java supporters turn even more hard core.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Mark Wallace wrote:
DotNET doesn't provide such shells
It does, and there are more implementations available on Linux than merely Mono.
Mark Wallace wrote:
so you can't simply copy a DotNET program to a mac or Linux machine and just run it without jumping through several hoops.
If it is a pure C# application, one can. It's binary compatible, meaning that I can simply run an app that has been compiled using Visual Studio.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: if you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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The thing is that Java provides the shells needed to use Java/run Java apps on any platform. DotNET doesn't provide such shells (mono, for example, is third party open-source), so you can't simply copy a DotNET program to a mac or Linux machine and just run it without jumping through several hoops. The biggest problem with Java was performance, which was easy to hold up and sneer at, so, now that its performance has been hugely improved, people are getting antsy, and publishing scare stories that will just make Java supporters turn even more hard core.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Of course, I didn't think about mac or linux, though in my limited experience of Linux if I need to port an application it's usually dos based written in C or C++ just shove on a memory stick and off you go, recompile, jobs a good-un! So if I wrote a standard GUI (Windows for want of a better word) would that just plain transfer with a memory stick with little or no adjustment? Glenn
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Of course, I didn't think about mac or linux, though in my limited experience of Linux if I need to port an application it's usually dos based written in C or C++ just shove on a memory stick and off you go, recompile, jobs a good-un! So if I wrote a standard GUI (Windows for want of a better word) would that just plain transfer with a memory stick with little or no adjustment? Glenn
There's an outside chance that you might need the Windows API for it to work
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Java...I have never really seen the point of it, okay it was supposed to run everywhere with Java Virtual Machine (like .NET Framework on some things iPaqs, Pocket PC), not give you direct access to the hardware (like .NET annoying), be royalty free (like .NET Runtime). So all in all it has been replaced has it not (discussion in a Pub with Geeky friends led to "Why the ***** would you use Java, C# pretty much the same plus you can blame Microsharft when it goes wrong!) Plus all the hotshot Java people I know (2) came from C++ to Java back C++ a few years ago... Are there features of Java that aren't anywhere else, whats it unique selling point any one (don't want to start a war just interested.)
Java, like any computer language, can solve some problems; end of. It is neither better nor worse than any of the others, it is merely different, and is a 'good' solution to some problems. Sometimes the only reason to write a program in Java is "because it's the language I know best". Language bigots, like any other type (e.g. Mac bigots), are just sad bores. I have used C, C++, C# and Java * and am happy with any or all of them, each one has taught me something that I didn't know. *I've also written programs in machine code, assembler, Cobol, Fortran, RPG and a couple of others whose names I no longer remember.
One of these days I'm going to think of a really clever signature.
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Java...I have never really seen the point of it, okay it was supposed to run everywhere with Java Virtual Machine (like .NET Framework on some things iPaqs, Pocket PC), not give you direct access to the hardware (like .NET annoying), be royalty free (like .NET Runtime). So all in all it has been replaced has it not (discussion in a Pub with Geeky friends led to "Why the ***** would you use Java, C# pretty much the same plus you can blame Microsharft when it goes wrong!) Plus all the hotshot Java people I know (2) came from C++ to Java back C++ a few years ago... Are there features of Java that aren't anywhere else, whats it unique selling point any one (don't want to start a war just interested.)
glennPattonWork wrote:
Are there features of Java that aren't anywhere else, whats it unique selling point any one (don't want to start a war just interested.)
Java was thought at school, even before .NET existed. Before Java, all languages in school were company-agnostic, they'd only use languages that weren't bound to a certain company. It was pushed by the schools, and now it is slowly being replaced by .NET; the platform provides a better integration with the rest of the ecosystem (Office, DB-server), but (logically) it remains popular in the places that have invested much into their Java-systems.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: if you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Java...I have never really seen the point of it, okay it was supposed to run everywhere with Java Virtual Machine (like .NET Framework on some things iPaqs, Pocket PC), not give you direct access to the hardware (like .NET annoying), be royalty free (like .NET Runtime). So all in all it has been replaced has it not (discussion in a Pub with Geeky friends led to "Why the ***** would you use Java, C# pretty much the same plus you can blame Microsharft when it goes wrong!) Plus all the hotshot Java people I know (2) came from C++ to Java back C++ a few years ago... Are there features of Java that aren't anywhere else, whats it unique selling point any one (don't want to start a war just interested.)
At least .NET doesn't scream at you "I want to update" every hour on the hour. Or at least it seemed to whenever I had the JVM installed. Don't anymore, and avoid anything that wants it.
Ideological Purity is no substitute for being able to stick your thumb down a pipe to stop the water
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Java, like any computer language, can solve some problems; end of. It is neither better nor worse than any of the others, it is merely different, and is a 'good' solution to some problems. Sometimes the only reason to write a program in Java is "because it's the language I know best". Language bigots, like any other type (e.g. Mac bigots), are just sad bores. I have used C, C++, C# and Java * and am happy with any or all of them, each one has taught me something that I didn't know. *I've also written programs in machine code, assembler, Cobol, Fortran, RPG and a couple of others whose names I no longer remember.
One of these days I'm going to think of a really clever signature.
Really as I thought Horses for Courses! ;)
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At least .NET doesn't scream at you "I want to update" every hour on the hour. Or at least it seemed to whenever I had the JVM installed. Don't anymore, and avoid anything that wants it.
Ideological Purity is no substitute for being able to stick your thumb down a pipe to stop the water
OriginalGriff wrote:
At least .NET doesn't scream at you "I want to update" every hour on the hour.
That's because .NET would be clashing with the Windows Update mechanism.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
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Java...I have never really seen the point of it, okay it was supposed to run everywhere with Java Virtual Machine (like .NET Framework on some things iPaqs, Pocket PC), not give you direct access to the hardware (like .NET annoying), be royalty free (like .NET Runtime). So all in all it has been replaced has it not (discussion in a Pub with Geeky friends led to "Why the ***** would you use Java, C# pretty much the same plus you can blame Microsharft when it goes wrong!) Plus all the hotshot Java people I know (2) came from C++ to Java back C++ a few years ago... Are there features of Java that aren't anywhere else, whats it unique selling point any one (don't want to start a war just interested.)
glennPattonWork wrote:
Are there features of Java that aren't anywhere else
The sheer number of existing java libraries makes it a compelling choice for many projects - it's one of the platforms "unique selling points", another is that there are a huge number of people who knows a bit of java.
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Whenever methodologies become productized, objectivity is removed from the equation. -- Mike Myatt
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glennPattonWork wrote:
Are there features of Java that aren't anywhere else, whats it unique selling point any one (don't want to start a war just interested.)
Java was thought at school, even before .NET existed. Before Java, all languages in school were company-agnostic, they'd only use languages that weren't bound to a certain company. It was pushed by the schools, and now it is slowly being replaced by .NET; the platform provides a better integration with the rest of the ecosystem (Office, DB-server), but (logically) it remains popular in the places that have invested much into their Java-systems.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: if you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
Quote:
all languages in school were company-agnostic
Mmmm....C... write a custom header for non standard stuff.
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Java...I have never really seen the point of it, okay it was supposed to run everywhere with Java Virtual Machine (like .NET Framework on some things iPaqs, Pocket PC), not give you direct access to the hardware (like .NET annoying), be royalty free (like .NET Runtime). So all in all it has been replaced has it not (discussion in a Pub with Geeky friends led to "Why the ***** would you use Java, C# pretty much the same plus you can blame Microsharft when it goes wrong!) Plus all the hotshot Java people I know (2) came from C++ to Java back C++ a few years ago... Are there features of Java that aren't anywhere else, whats it unique selling point any one (don't want to start a war just interested.)
I primarily come from a Java background. Was the first programming language I learned (I also learned a bit of algorithm basics applied in C, but way too little to count). I always had the opinion that it was a simple and pretty straightforward language. I still do, after having learned C# (which is comparable to Java at any scale and comes as a close second on my list of favorites), PHP and a bit of VB.NET ASPX, and Ruby. Then, I got into mobile (Java Android), and it got even better. I loved the Android Java even more then Java itself (here however I may be in the dark, as I have no experience with other mobile development frameworks). Once I learned the API basics and guidelines, it was all breeze and fifth gear (it was an internal applications targeted to tablets. The purpose was to give the delivery boys and drivers a means to keep track of where they go, what they pick up and what they deliver to customers). Lately I've been mostly caught with C#, building modules for an Oracle ERP automation. While has been, and still is fun, and while I really like what I'm doing at the moment (to me, LINQ does rule btw), I miss Java. C# and VS to me seem too, dunno, businesslike, while Java (both under NetBeans and Eclipse) seemed a little more leaned back. I'm not hardcore fanboy enough to say it has no shortcomings (and I won't even go into details here). Not at all, but then which language doesn't? All in all, I can't even put my finger on why I love Java. I just do. Personal preference maybe, but it's mine and I'm keeping to it. EDIT: I'm not using it for everything and I don't say that it's good for everything, AT ALL! There are languages far better suited for certain tasks (.NET for Windows-targeted development comes to mind). But having to choose between Java and another language equally suited for the task at hand, I'll always choose Java.
Full-fledged Java/.NET lover, full-fledged PHP hater. Full-fledged Google/Microsoft lover, full-fledged Apple hater. Full-fledged Skype lover, full-fledged YM hater.
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At least .NET doesn't scream at you "I want to update" every hour on the hour. Or at least it seemed to whenever I had the JVM installed. Don't anymore, and avoid anything that wants it.
Ideological Purity is no substitute for being able to stick your thumb down a pipe to stop the water
I have the full Java suite installed both on my dev laptop and the home computer. Other than the security update a few days ago, I can't even remember the last time Java bugged me for an update. Yes, .NET doesn't scream 'update' at me, but neither did Java
Full-fledged Java/.NET lover, full-fledged PHP hater. Full-fledged Google/Microsoft lover, full-fledged Apple hater. Full-fledged Skype lover, full-fledged YM hater.
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glennPattonWork wrote:
Are there features of Java that aren't anywhere else
The sheer number of existing java libraries makes it a compelling choice for many projects - it's one of the platforms "unique selling points", another is that there are a huge number of people who knows a bit of java.
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Whenever methodologies become productized, objectivity is removed from the equation. -- Mike Myatt
Quote:
another is that there are a huge number of people who knows a bit of java
a bit of java...oh dear, that sounds like you know enough to be dangerous, get your self in a hole but not enough to get out!
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Java, like any computer language, can solve some problems; end of. It is neither better nor worse than any of the others, it is merely different, and is a 'good' solution to some problems. Sometimes the only reason to write a program in Java is "because it's the language I know best". Language bigots, like any other type (e.g. Mac bigots), are just sad bores. I have used C, C++, C# and Java * and am happy with any or all of them, each one has taught me something that I didn't know. *I've also written programs in machine code, assembler, Cobol, Fortran, RPG and a couple of others whose names I no longer remember.
One of these days I'm going to think of a really clever signature.
Word :thumbsup:
Full-fledged Java/.NET lover, full-fledged PHP hater. Full-fledged Google/Microsoft lover, full-fledged Apple hater. Full-fledged Skype lover, full-fledged YM hater.
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Quote:
another is that there are a huge number of people who knows a bit of java
a bit of java...oh dear, that sounds like you know enough to be dangerous, get your self in a hole but not enough to get out!
glennPattonWork wrote:
a bit of java...oh dear
Developers are not supposed to be experts anymore, at least that's the myth tooted by a surprising number of people.
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Whenever methodologies become productized, objectivity is removed from the equation. -- Mike Myatt
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I primarily come from a Java background. Was the first programming language I learned (I also learned a bit of algorithm basics applied in C, but way too little to count). I always had the opinion that it was a simple and pretty straightforward language. I still do, after having learned C# (which is comparable to Java at any scale and comes as a close second on my list of favorites), PHP and a bit of VB.NET ASPX, and Ruby. Then, I got into mobile (Java Android), and it got even better. I loved the Android Java even more then Java itself (here however I may be in the dark, as I have no experience with other mobile development frameworks). Once I learned the API basics and guidelines, it was all breeze and fifth gear (it was an internal applications targeted to tablets. The purpose was to give the delivery boys and drivers a means to keep track of where they go, what they pick up and what they deliver to customers). Lately I've been mostly caught with C#, building modules for an Oracle ERP automation. While has been, and still is fun, and while I really like what I'm doing at the moment (to me, LINQ does rule btw), I miss Java. C# and VS to me seem too, dunno, businesslike, while Java (both under NetBeans and Eclipse) seemed a little more leaned back. I'm not hardcore fanboy enough to say it has no shortcomings (and I won't even go into details here). Not at all, but then which language doesn't? All in all, I can't even put my finger on why I love Java. I just do. Personal preference maybe, but it's mine and I'm keeping to it. EDIT: I'm not using it for everything and I don't say that it's good for everything, AT ALL! There are languages far better suited for certain tasks (.NET for Windows-targeted development comes to mind). But having to choose between Java and another language equally suited for the task at hand, I'll always choose Java.
Full-fledged Java/.NET lover, full-fledged PHP hater. Full-fledged Google/Microsoft lover, full-fledged Apple hater. Full-fledged Skype lover, full-fledged YM hater.
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glennPattonWork wrote:
a bit of java...oh dear
Developers are not supposed to be experts anymore, at least that's the myth tooted by a surprising number of people.
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Whenever methodologies become productized, objectivity is removed from the equation. -- Mike Myatt
Well I have always thought you should be able to do the basic input/output, file handling, port bashing methods before you can say I know a bit, and even then you get in horrible trouble the first weeks.
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Java...I have never really seen the point of it, okay it was supposed to run everywhere with Java Virtual Machine (like .NET Framework on some things iPaqs, Pocket PC), not give you direct access to the hardware (like .NET annoying), be royalty free (like .NET Runtime). So all in all it has been replaced has it not (discussion in a Pub with Geeky friends led to "Why the ***** would you use Java, C# pretty much the same plus you can blame Microsharft when it goes wrong!) Plus all the hotshot Java people I know (2) came from C++ to Java back C++ a few years ago... Are there features of Java that aren't anywhere else, whats it unique selling point any one (don't want to start a war just interested.)
Ten years ago my mother called me once and was talking to me about Java. Thats how big the Java (SUN) marketing machine was !!!! I never liked it much after that ! It was insane ... Everyone was talking about it but you COULDN"T GIVE AWAY java apps back then. No one wanted it. It was pretty bad...Java fan boys were everywhere. I use to piss them off every now and then and talk about C++ and even Visual Basic out-performed it. LOL .. It was fun ! However, I am hearing from reliable sources that on the Android it is pretty sweet ..
================================================== --I am the STIG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Well I have always thought you should be able to do the basic input/output, file handling, port bashing methods before you can say I know a bit, and even then you get in horrible trouble the first weeks.
These days all you need is to be able to say you've some experience with the spring framework[^], Maven[^] and Eclipse[^]. Don't get me wrong, I really like Eclipse and the eco system that's grown up around it, but sometimes it seems that being able to fire it up and install a couple of plugins constitutes as experience.
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Whenever methodologies become productized, objectivity is removed from the equation. -- Mike Myatt
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Ten years ago my mother called me once and was talking to me about Java. Thats how big the Java (SUN) marketing machine was !!!! I never liked it much after that ! It was insane ... Everyone was talking about it but you COULDN"T GIVE AWAY java apps back then. No one wanted it. It was pretty bad...Java fan boys were everywhere. I use to piss them off every now and then and talk about C++ and even Visual Basic out-performed it. LOL .. It was fun ! However, I am hearing from reliable sources that on the Android it is pretty sweet ..
================================================== --I am the STIG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's like Pascal was -- used for teaching programming, so many people's first love.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
