Slammin' the Apple announcment sticky
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That sticky was fine with me, Chris; of course I have a hide that's turned teflon with age, so nothing sticks for long. Damn right it's an important announcement ! Similarly, the appearance (when it ships, and when people can fully test it) of the Nokia Lumia 920, and the upcoming MS Surface (when it ships, and when people can fully test it), and ... ditto ... the next-gen UltraBooks, will be widely significant in the geo-political battle in the arena of mobile/small-form-factor/Net Book for "world domination." In an "ideal world," I think your post might have turned into an excellent discussion (perhaps on a topic forum, rather than the Lounge ?) of what the best tools are for Windows devs who want to create IOS apps for varying sizes, models, and screen resolutions (buzzword: "responsive") of iWhatEvers, assuming they are willing to make some sacrifice (of performance ?), in order not to have to shift to Objective-C, think in brackets, rather than curly braces, and switch from Guinness to Cocoa. Keep on sticking-it to us, please, for right now many us (Win devs) are like rabbits at night on the highway, frozen, immobile, in the headlights of a monster semi-trailer truck (UK: "articulated lorry") bearing down on us at high-speed. We need a sharp pricking to get us hopping before we are turned into road-kill. best, Bill
"When it comes to atoms, language can be used only as in poetry. The poet, too, is not nearly so concerned with describing facts as with creating images." Niels Bohr
BillWoodruff wrote:
I think your post might have turned into an excellent discussion
I think it already has ;)
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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There's a couple of ways to take it when someone says you're [pause] "special" ;)
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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There's a couple of ways to take it when someone says you're [pause] "special" ;)
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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That sticky was fine with me, Chris; of course I have a hide that's turned teflon with age, so nothing sticks for long. Damn right it's an important announcement ! Similarly, the appearance (when it ships, and when people can fully test it) of the Nokia Lumia 920, and the upcoming MS Surface (when it ships, and when people can fully test it), and ... ditto ... the next-gen UltraBooks, will be widely significant in the geo-political battle in the arena of mobile/small-form-factor/Net Book for "world domination." In an "ideal world," I think your post might have turned into an excellent discussion (perhaps on a topic forum, rather than the Lounge ?) of what the best tools are for Windows devs who want to create IOS apps for varying sizes, models, and screen resolutions (buzzword: "responsive") of iWhatEvers, assuming they are willing to make some sacrifice (of performance ?), in order not to have to shift to Objective-C, think in brackets, rather than curly braces, and switch from Guinness to Cocoa. Keep on sticking-it to us, please, for right now many us (Win devs) are like rabbits at night on the highway, frozen, immobile, in the headlights of a monster semi-trailer truck (UK: "articulated lorry") bearing down on us at high-speed. We need a sharp pricking to get us hopping before we are turned into road-kill. best, Bill
"When it comes to atoms, language can be used only as in poetry. The poet, too, is not nearly so concerned with describing facts as with creating images." Niels Bohr
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If ever there's a case for keeping downvotes it's got to be my sticky post yesterday regarding the Apple iPhone announcement. I'm amazed at the 1-votes. Where did the magic go, guys? Apple creates tech gadgets. Overpriced, overhyped, overhyperboly'd, sure. But they are gadgets and they are a way for developers to create applications that millions of people will use and enjoy. This isn't restricted to the iPhone, though. Android devices, Windows Phone, and Blackberries all provide the developer with the most interesting developer challenge and opportunity in the last decade. So I'm just curious: Do people hate Apple for being Apple? Hate the devices? Hate the hype? The OS? The development environment? The available apps? The design? Is it the tall poppy syndrome, or is it a feeling that other companies are more worthy of the over-the-top media attention? I don't want to start the same old boring religious war, and I'm not interested in discussions regarding the Reality Distortion Field since every single company does the same thing. I'd just like to know what, specifically, people dislike about an announcement regarding an Apple launch, but also what, specifically, you guys would be interested in hearing regarding Apple. And Google. And Samsung. And RIM. And whatever other handset make you care to name.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
Overpriced, overhyped, overhyperboly'd, sure.
The answer might be simpler than you think Chris, many of the community members are a smidgen jaded from the industry (hype, hyperbole, vapor ware, acronym soup, ect). Add in all of the hype and it starts becoming a poke an angry bear with a stick. Almost every where you look, you hear something about apples iPhone, as if it was the saving grace of humanity. I for one am a little tired of the hype, it’s a phone, a phone that almost needs app to do anything… Just my two cents :)
Common sense is admitting there is cause and effect and that you can exert some control over what you understand.
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No but it gives you an idea. 1 down vote, ok you've posted something one person didn't like, probably ignore it. 5, 10 or 20 downvotes then that's definitely a message that what you have posted is probably 'frowned upon'.
That's not how I've observed voting occur in these forums. But then that's how it's in real life too.
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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If ever there's a case for keeping downvotes it's got to be my sticky post yesterday regarding the Apple iPhone announcement. I'm amazed at the 1-votes. Where did the magic go, guys? Apple creates tech gadgets. Overpriced, overhyped, overhyperboly'd, sure. But they are gadgets and they are a way for developers to create applications that millions of people will use and enjoy. This isn't restricted to the iPhone, though. Android devices, Windows Phone, and Blackberries all provide the developer with the most interesting developer challenge and opportunity in the last decade. So I'm just curious: Do people hate Apple for being Apple? Hate the devices? Hate the hype? The OS? The development environment? The available apps? The design? Is it the tall poppy syndrome, or is it a feeling that other companies are more worthy of the over-the-top media attention? I don't want to start the same old boring religious war, and I'm not interested in discussions regarding the Reality Distortion Field since every single company does the same thing. I'd just like to know what, specifically, people dislike about an announcement regarding an Apple launch, but also what, specifically, you guys would be interested in hearing regarding Apple. And Google. And Samsung. And RIM. And whatever other handset make you care to name.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
I'm amazed at the 1-votes. Where did the magic go, guys?
I don't 1 vote for stuff like that but the iPhone is not new. When it was introduce it was new. Now it is just marketing.
Chris Maunder wrote:
But they are gadgets and they are a way for developers to create applications that millions of people will use and enjoy.
But if you want to participate in that market then you must pass the Apple censorship.
Chris Maunder wrote:
So I'm just curious: Do people hate Apple for being Apple? Hate the devices? Hate the hype? The OS? The development environment? The available apps? The design? Is it the tall poppy syndrome, or is it a feeling that other companies are more worthy of the over-the-top media attention?
I don't care for their censorship. The marketing now has nothing to do with the "device". It has everything to do with the buzz. Similar to a new release by any manufactured boy band. And they are becoming dangerously close to becoming a monopoly.
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Chris Maunder wrote:
I'm amazed at the 1-votes. Where did the magic go, guys?
I don't 1 vote for stuff like that but the iPhone is not new. When it was introduce it was new. Now it is just marketing.
Chris Maunder wrote:
But they are gadgets and they are a way for developers to create applications that millions of people will use and enjoy.
But if you want to participate in that market then you must pass the Apple censorship.
Chris Maunder wrote:
So I'm just curious: Do people hate Apple for being Apple? Hate the devices? Hate the hype? The OS? The development environment? The available apps? The design? Is it the tall poppy syndrome, or is it a feeling that other companies are more worthy of the over-the-top media attention?
I don't care for their censorship. The marketing now has nothing to do with the "device". It has everything to do with the buzz. Similar to a new release by any manufactured boy band. And they are becoming dangerously close to becoming a monopoly.
jschell wrote:
But if you want to participate in that market then you must pass the Apple censorship
Oh dear. Have you looked at how the Windows App store works? Or the Intel store? Or the moves Google is making to try and clean up the mess that is their store? I'm all for hearty debate, but we shouldn't have one yardstick for one company and another yard stick for another. It's funny, but it seems Apple is the new Microsoft.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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BillWoodruff wrote:
I think your post might have turned into an excellent discussion
I think it already has ;)
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
I think it already has ;)
For me, the discussion, to date, has been trivial, beating the same-old dead-horse of "which is more evil, MS or Apple," and will rapidly submerge in the Lounge-Swamp, where so much interesting technical content, that should go onto an appropriate technical forum, unfortunately, submerges (with the technical forums, in these cases, diluted in value). imho, the issue of what Windows devs are doing now, or may be able to do in the near future, to port existing, or create new, apps, using MS tools, that will run within IOS, or Android, performantly, is quite significant, and germane to MS devs' future in the mobile/small-form-factor phone/tablet/ultrabook touch-driven ... blah blah blah ... domain now so dominated at the high-end by Apple, and, in terms of sheer number of devices shipped, by Android: a topic worthy of its own Forum. But, I believe I've already expressed, several times, on the "Suggestions" Forum, my opinion that the Lounge needs the equivalent of a good old-fashioned Stalinist purge: Ooh, hey, here's a thought: let's have a forum called "Siberia," where all stale jokes posted on the Lounge are "exiled," as well as "gimme codez," and other totally inane posts, drunken fugal (in the psychiatric sense of that term) rambling, etc. go ! That some (many ?) of my own posts on the Lounge would certainly be subject to deportation to this "Gulag:" has crossed my mind. :) best, Bill
"When it comes to atoms, language can be used only as in poetry. The poet, too, is not nearly so concerned with describing facts as with creating images." Niels Bohr
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Chris Maunder wrote:
I think it already has ;)
For me, the discussion, to date, has been trivial, beating the same-old dead-horse of "which is more evil, MS or Apple," and will rapidly submerge in the Lounge-Swamp, where so much interesting technical content, that should go onto an appropriate technical forum, unfortunately, submerges (with the technical forums, in these cases, diluted in value). imho, the issue of what Windows devs are doing now, or may be able to do in the near future, to port existing, or create new, apps, using MS tools, that will run within IOS, or Android, performantly, is quite significant, and germane to MS devs' future in the mobile/small-form-factor phone/tablet/ultrabook touch-driven ... blah blah blah ... domain now so dominated at the high-end by Apple, and, in terms of sheer number of devices shipped, by Android: a topic worthy of its own Forum. But, I believe I've already expressed, several times, on the "Suggestions" Forum, my opinion that the Lounge needs the equivalent of a good old-fashioned Stalinist purge: Ooh, hey, here's a thought: let's have a forum called "Siberia," where all stale jokes posted on the Lounge are "exiled," as well as "gimme codez," and other totally inane posts, drunken fugal (in the psychiatric sense of that term) rambling, etc. go ! That some (many ?) of my own posts on the Lounge would certainly be subject to deportation to this "Gulag:" has crossed my mind. :) best, Bill
"When it comes to atoms, language can be used only as in poetry. The poet, too, is not nearly so concerned with describing facts as with creating images." Niels Bohr
Ah - then we get to enjoy everyone complaining about the Thought Police. We already have The Soapbox for the ramblings and ravings, and The Back Room. The only way a purge would work is if we had many, many moderators constantly working to sort and filter. And that in itself is a tricky endeavour because the decision as to whether a thread is suited best for one forum or another is very subjective. People want to post where they think their post will most likely be read. So, they gravitate to the most popular, vaguely relevant forum and it becomes a battle of constant moderation. It's not impossible, but it sounds tiring. Maybe I just give everyone a "Nuke Thread" token and each week you can nuke a thread you think shouldn't exist. No holds barred.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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Ah - then we get to enjoy everyone complaining about the Thought Police. We already have The Soapbox for the ramblings and ravings, and The Back Room. The only way a purge would work is if we had many, many moderators constantly working to sort and filter. And that in itself is a tricky endeavour because the decision as to whether a thread is suited best for one forum or another is very subjective. People want to post where they think their post will most likely be read. So, they gravitate to the most popular, vaguely relevant forum and it becomes a battle of constant moderation. It's not impossible, but it sounds tiring. Maybe I just give everyone a "Nuke Thread" token and each week you can nuke a thread you think shouldn't exist. No holds barred.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
Maybe I just give everyone a "Nuke Thread" token and each week you can nuke a thread you think shouldn't exist. No holds barred.
Glad to see you thinking "out of the box" here Chris: the "Nuke Thread" concept seems like the opposite of "Weapons of Mass Destruction:" a one-shot weapon of individual destruction ? :) But, I think there is an alternative: let the members vote and "winnow-out" messages that probably should be moved: put a third item in the "Report" drop-down: "Wrong Forum:" a Lounge message gets some number of that category of Reports, then let some members with very high-reps, or CP staff, decide where the messages should be moved, or: leave the message in place on the Lounge and copy it over to the appropriate technical Forum so it enriches the technical Fora. I think that's consistent with your principles and values on CP, as I experience them, and avoids the "thought police" issue. best, Bill
"When it comes to atoms, language can be used only as in poetry. The poet, too, is not nearly so concerned with describing facts as with creating images." Niels Bohr
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jschell wrote:
But if you want to participate in that market then you must pass the Apple censorship
Oh dear. Have you looked at how the Windows App store works? Or the Intel store? Or the moves Google is making to try and clean up the mess that is their store? I'm all for hearty debate, but we shouldn't have one yardstick for one company and another yard stick for another. It's funny, but it seems Apple is the new Microsoft.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
Have you looked at how the Windows App store works? Or the Intel store? Or the moves Google is making to try and clean up the mess that is their store?
Pretty sure that I can buy android apps and run them without having them pass through one single vendors non-technical filter.
Chris Maunder wrote:
It's funny, but it seems Apple is the new Microsoft.
I didn't say I was condemning the company - I said I didn't like their policy in regards to this. And other than that I don't engage in emotional condemnations of companies based on specific policies. True for Apple and true for Microsoft.
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That's not how I've observed voting occur in these forums. But then that's how it's in real life too.
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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I grant you that it is sometimes abused. But in this case, I think it was used correctly. P.S. I didn't downvote as I was clever enough to deduce from the title of the sticky that it was something I wasn't bothered about so didn't click it.
TPFKAPB wrote:
I didn't downvote as I was clever enough to deduce from the title of the sticky that it was something I wasn't bothered about so didn't click it.
Wish more people did that.
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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If ever there's a case for keeping downvotes it's got to be my sticky post yesterday regarding the Apple iPhone announcement. I'm amazed at the 1-votes. Where did the magic go, guys? Apple creates tech gadgets. Overpriced, overhyped, overhyperboly'd, sure. But they are gadgets and they are a way for developers to create applications that millions of people will use and enjoy. This isn't restricted to the iPhone, though. Android devices, Windows Phone, and Blackberries all provide the developer with the most interesting developer challenge and opportunity in the last decade. So I'm just curious: Do people hate Apple for being Apple? Hate the devices? Hate the hype? The OS? The development environment? The available apps? The design? Is it the tall poppy syndrome, or is it a feeling that other companies are more worthy of the over-the-top media attention? I don't want to start the same old boring religious war, and I'm not interested in discussions regarding the Reality Distortion Field since every single company does the same thing. I'd just like to know what, specifically, people dislike about an announcement regarding an Apple launch, but also what, specifically, you guys would be interested in hearing regarding Apple. And Google. And Samsung. And RIM. And whatever other handset make you care to name.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Perhaps a few is just a bit frustrated since they can't slam the United States Patent and Trademark Office[^]. I think more than a few are miffed by the slew of patent wars we've seen lately ... Just to quote Wikipedia on a Patent[^]: A patent is, in effect, a limited property right that the government offers to inventors in exchange for their agreement to share the details of their inventions with the public I guess many feel that patents are granted too freely, with too little benefit for the society and public at large, and that Apple holds too many patents that fits this description - thus misusing the legal system to prevent what many feel would be fair competition in a healthy market. So, while I think the sticky was just fine, I guess Apple is misjudging the severity of the emotional response caused by their patent lawsuits - you just got a lot of downvotes because Apple is starting to get a bit unpopular among developers.
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra
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Chris Maunder wrote:
Maybe I just give everyone a "Nuke Thread" token and each week you can nuke a thread you think shouldn't exist. No holds barred.
Glad to see you thinking "out of the box" here Chris: the "Nuke Thread" concept seems like the opposite of "Weapons of Mass Destruction:" a one-shot weapon of individual destruction ? :) But, I think there is an alternative: let the members vote and "winnow-out" messages that probably should be moved: put a third item in the "Report" drop-down: "Wrong Forum:" a Lounge message gets some number of that category of Reports, then let some members with very high-reps, or CP staff, decide where the messages should be moved, or: leave the message in place on the Lounge and copy it over to the appropriate technical Forum so it enriches the technical Fora. I think that's consistent with your principles and values on CP, as I experience them, and avoids the "thought police" issue. best, Bill
"When it comes to atoms, language can be used only as in poetry. The poet, too, is not nearly so concerned with describing facts as with creating images." Niels Bohr
I'll have to put this on the TODO list.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP