Slammin' the Apple announcment sticky
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May I suggest you remove voting from stickies. The Bugs & Suggestions is where they can comment and complain. A sticky is just a sticky. Don't give the masses ammo. :rose: Hmmm, we need a "peace out" icon for guys. The rose is too feminine and the other icons aren't appropriate. I could give you a sheep.
Any sheep being given out are the exclusive property of OG.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
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BobJanova wrote:
I 1-voted it for the clear favouritism
It still doesn't make sense. The only stickies I've posted in the past for product launches have been Microsoft products. By posting one for Apple I'm actively now promoting other companies, and will continue to do so. This is actually the opposite of favouritism. I guess it's just because it was Apple since I am doubting if I'd posted a Samsung link there would have been the 1 votes. I accuse you, sir, of the bias ;)
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
The stickies that I've noticed in the past (and they're pretty rare) have been for development oriented things. VS, for example – this site is mostly aimed at people who use VS as part of their job, and so it makes sense to promote a new version of that. If you make one for a major release of .Net, or a C++ standards update, that would be sensible too, though personally I'd prefer them all to just go into Insider News. This one was a piece of consumer tech, though, so it's rather different. And, well, I might not have 1-voted a sticky about a Samsung Galaxy launch event, because they aren't so over-exposed already that I get annoyed with the very mention of their name, but I'd have questioned why it deserved one and no other company had done so before.
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If ever there's a case for keeping downvotes it's got to be my sticky post yesterday regarding the Apple iPhone announcement. I'm amazed at the 1-votes. Where did the magic go, guys? Apple creates tech gadgets. Overpriced, overhyped, overhyperboly'd, sure. But they are gadgets and they are a way for developers to create applications that millions of people will use and enjoy. This isn't restricted to the iPhone, though. Android devices, Windows Phone, and Blackberries all provide the developer with the most interesting developer challenge and opportunity in the last decade. So I'm just curious: Do people hate Apple for being Apple? Hate the devices? Hate the hype? The OS? The development environment? The available apps? The design? Is it the tall poppy syndrome, or is it a feeling that other companies are more worthy of the over-the-top media attention? I don't want to start the same old boring religious war, and I'm not interested in discussions regarding the Reality Distortion Field since every single company does the same thing. I'd just like to know what, specifically, people dislike about an announcement regarding an Apple launch, but also what, specifically, you guys would be interested in hearing regarding Apple. And Google. And Samsung. And RIM. And whatever other handset make you care to name.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
For me, why I dislike Apple is the barrier to entry for developing, the closed-boxed-ness of their devices and development process, and the general overpriced-ness. I voted it 1 because, well, it's feedback to as to what us users like. I voted it one because the users in the Lounge that are interested in the release are surely aware of it and where to watch it. I also feel that it was a little slanted because it is just one new generation of an existing product, not exactly groundbreaking. Was the same done for, or will be done for, the Wii, Samsung III, Google glasses, new XBox's/PS's, Samsung Tablet, Facebook Phone, Droid OS, .NET release that probably effects just as many developers as the new iPhone?
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If ever there's a case for keeping downvotes it's got to be my sticky post yesterday regarding the Apple iPhone announcement. I'm amazed at the 1-votes. Where did the magic go, guys? Apple creates tech gadgets. Overpriced, overhyped, overhyperboly'd, sure. But they are gadgets and they are a way for developers to create applications that millions of people will use and enjoy. This isn't restricted to the iPhone, though. Android devices, Windows Phone, and Blackberries all provide the developer with the most interesting developer challenge and opportunity in the last decade. So I'm just curious: Do people hate Apple for being Apple? Hate the devices? Hate the hype? The OS? The development environment? The available apps? The design? Is it the tall poppy syndrome, or is it a feeling that other companies are more worthy of the over-the-top media attention? I don't want to start the same old boring religious war, and I'm not interested in discussions regarding the Reality Distortion Field since every single company does the same thing. I'd just like to know what, specifically, people dislike about an announcement regarding an Apple launch, but also what, specifically, you guys would be interested in hearing regarding Apple. And Google. And Samsung. And RIM. And whatever other handset make you care to name.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
That sticky was fine with me, Chris; of course I have a hide that's turned teflon with age, so nothing sticks for long. Damn right it's an important announcement ! Similarly, the appearance (when it ships, and when people can fully test it) of the Nokia Lumia 920, and the upcoming MS Surface (when it ships, and when people can fully test it), and ... ditto ... the next-gen UltraBooks, will be widely significant in the geo-political battle in the arena of mobile/small-form-factor/Net Book for "world domination." In an "ideal world," I think your post might have turned into an excellent discussion (perhaps on a topic forum, rather than the Lounge ?) of what the best tools are for Windows devs who want to create IOS apps for varying sizes, models, and screen resolutions (buzzword: "responsive") of iWhatEvers, assuming they are willing to make some sacrifice (of performance ?), in order not to have to shift to Objective-C, think in brackets, rather than curly braces, and switch from Guinness to Cocoa. Keep on sticking-it to us, please, for right now many us (Win devs) are like rabbits at night on the highway, frozen, immobile, in the headlights of a monster semi-trailer truck (UK: "articulated lorry") bearing down on us at high-speed. We need a sharp pricking to get us hopping before we are turned into road-kill. best, Bill
"When it comes to atoms, language can be used only as in poetry. The poet, too, is not nearly so concerned with describing facts as with creating images." Niels Bohr
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May I suggest you remove voting from stickies. The Bugs & Suggestions is where they can comment and complain. A sticky is just a sticky. Don't give the masses ammo. :rose: Hmmm, we need a "peace out" icon for guys. The rose is too feminine and the other icons aren't appropriate. I could give you a sheep.
That would remove the fun - and why should I prevent members expressing an opinion on my posts? I'm not that special.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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That would remove the fun - and why should I prevent members expressing an opinion on my posts? I'm not that special.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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That sticky was fine with me, Chris; of course I have a hide that's turned teflon with age, so nothing sticks for long. Damn right it's an important announcement ! Similarly, the appearance (when it ships, and when people can fully test it) of the Nokia Lumia 920, and the upcoming MS Surface (when it ships, and when people can fully test it), and ... ditto ... the next-gen UltraBooks, will be widely significant in the geo-political battle in the arena of mobile/small-form-factor/Net Book for "world domination." In an "ideal world," I think your post might have turned into an excellent discussion (perhaps on a topic forum, rather than the Lounge ?) of what the best tools are for Windows devs who want to create IOS apps for varying sizes, models, and screen resolutions (buzzword: "responsive") of iWhatEvers, assuming they are willing to make some sacrifice (of performance ?), in order not to have to shift to Objective-C, think in brackets, rather than curly braces, and switch from Guinness to Cocoa. Keep on sticking-it to us, please, for right now many us (Win devs) are like rabbits at night on the highway, frozen, immobile, in the headlights of a monster semi-trailer truck (UK: "articulated lorry") bearing down on us at high-speed. We need a sharp pricking to get us hopping before we are turned into road-kill. best, Bill
"When it comes to atoms, language can be used only as in poetry. The poet, too, is not nearly so concerned with describing facts as with creating images." Niels Bohr
BillWoodruff wrote:
I think your post might have turned into an excellent discussion
I think it already has ;)
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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There's a couple of ways to take it when someone says you're [pause] "special" ;)
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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There's a couple of ways to take it when someone says you're [pause] "special" ;)
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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That sticky was fine with me, Chris; of course I have a hide that's turned teflon with age, so nothing sticks for long. Damn right it's an important announcement ! Similarly, the appearance (when it ships, and when people can fully test it) of the Nokia Lumia 920, and the upcoming MS Surface (when it ships, and when people can fully test it), and ... ditto ... the next-gen UltraBooks, will be widely significant in the geo-political battle in the arena of mobile/small-form-factor/Net Book for "world domination." In an "ideal world," I think your post might have turned into an excellent discussion (perhaps on a topic forum, rather than the Lounge ?) of what the best tools are for Windows devs who want to create IOS apps for varying sizes, models, and screen resolutions (buzzword: "responsive") of iWhatEvers, assuming they are willing to make some sacrifice (of performance ?), in order not to have to shift to Objective-C, think in brackets, rather than curly braces, and switch from Guinness to Cocoa. Keep on sticking-it to us, please, for right now many us (Win devs) are like rabbits at night on the highway, frozen, immobile, in the headlights of a monster semi-trailer truck (UK: "articulated lorry") bearing down on us at high-speed. We need a sharp pricking to get us hopping before we are turned into road-kill. best, Bill
"When it comes to atoms, language can be used only as in poetry. The poet, too, is not nearly so concerned with describing facts as with creating images." Niels Bohr
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If ever there's a case for keeping downvotes it's got to be my sticky post yesterday regarding the Apple iPhone announcement. I'm amazed at the 1-votes. Where did the magic go, guys? Apple creates tech gadgets. Overpriced, overhyped, overhyperboly'd, sure. But they are gadgets and they are a way for developers to create applications that millions of people will use and enjoy. This isn't restricted to the iPhone, though. Android devices, Windows Phone, and Blackberries all provide the developer with the most interesting developer challenge and opportunity in the last decade. So I'm just curious: Do people hate Apple for being Apple? Hate the devices? Hate the hype? The OS? The development environment? The available apps? The design? Is it the tall poppy syndrome, or is it a feeling that other companies are more worthy of the over-the-top media attention? I don't want to start the same old boring religious war, and I'm not interested in discussions regarding the Reality Distortion Field since every single company does the same thing. I'd just like to know what, specifically, people dislike about an announcement regarding an Apple launch, but also what, specifically, you guys would be interested in hearing regarding Apple. And Google. And Samsung. And RIM. And whatever other handset make you care to name.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
Overpriced, overhyped, overhyperboly'd, sure.
The answer might be simpler than you think Chris, many of the community members are a smidgen jaded from the industry (hype, hyperbole, vapor ware, acronym soup, ect). Add in all of the hype and it starts becoming a poke an angry bear with a stick. Almost every where you look, you hear something about apples iPhone, as if it was the saving grace of humanity. I for one am a little tired of the hype, it’s a phone, a phone that almost needs app to do anything… Just my two cents :)
Common sense is admitting there is cause and effect and that you can exert some control over what you understand.
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No but it gives you an idea. 1 down vote, ok you've posted something one person didn't like, probably ignore it. 5, 10 or 20 downvotes then that's definitely a message that what you have posted is probably 'frowned upon'.
That's not how I've observed voting occur in these forums. But then that's how it's in real life too.
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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If ever there's a case for keeping downvotes it's got to be my sticky post yesterday regarding the Apple iPhone announcement. I'm amazed at the 1-votes. Where did the magic go, guys? Apple creates tech gadgets. Overpriced, overhyped, overhyperboly'd, sure. But they are gadgets and they are a way for developers to create applications that millions of people will use and enjoy. This isn't restricted to the iPhone, though. Android devices, Windows Phone, and Blackberries all provide the developer with the most interesting developer challenge and opportunity in the last decade. So I'm just curious: Do people hate Apple for being Apple? Hate the devices? Hate the hype? The OS? The development environment? The available apps? The design? Is it the tall poppy syndrome, or is it a feeling that other companies are more worthy of the over-the-top media attention? I don't want to start the same old boring religious war, and I'm not interested in discussions regarding the Reality Distortion Field since every single company does the same thing. I'd just like to know what, specifically, people dislike about an announcement regarding an Apple launch, but also what, specifically, you guys would be interested in hearing regarding Apple. And Google. And Samsung. And RIM. And whatever other handset make you care to name.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
I'm amazed at the 1-votes. Where did the magic go, guys?
I don't 1 vote for stuff like that but the iPhone is not new. When it was introduce it was new. Now it is just marketing.
Chris Maunder wrote:
But they are gadgets and they are a way for developers to create applications that millions of people will use and enjoy.
But if you want to participate in that market then you must pass the Apple censorship.
Chris Maunder wrote:
So I'm just curious: Do people hate Apple for being Apple? Hate the devices? Hate the hype? The OS? The development environment? The available apps? The design? Is it the tall poppy syndrome, or is it a feeling that other companies are more worthy of the over-the-top media attention?
I don't care for their censorship. The marketing now has nothing to do with the "device". It has everything to do with the buzz. Similar to a new release by any manufactured boy band. And they are becoming dangerously close to becoming a monopoly.
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Chris Maunder wrote:
I'm amazed at the 1-votes. Where did the magic go, guys?
I don't 1 vote for stuff like that but the iPhone is not new. When it was introduce it was new. Now it is just marketing.
Chris Maunder wrote:
But they are gadgets and they are a way for developers to create applications that millions of people will use and enjoy.
But if you want to participate in that market then you must pass the Apple censorship.
Chris Maunder wrote:
So I'm just curious: Do people hate Apple for being Apple? Hate the devices? Hate the hype? The OS? The development environment? The available apps? The design? Is it the tall poppy syndrome, or is it a feeling that other companies are more worthy of the over-the-top media attention?
I don't care for their censorship. The marketing now has nothing to do with the "device". It has everything to do with the buzz. Similar to a new release by any manufactured boy band. And they are becoming dangerously close to becoming a monopoly.
jschell wrote:
But if you want to participate in that market then you must pass the Apple censorship
Oh dear. Have you looked at how the Windows App store works? Or the Intel store? Or the moves Google is making to try and clean up the mess that is their store? I'm all for hearty debate, but we shouldn't have one yardstick for one company and another yard stick for another. It's funny, but it seems Apple is the new Microsoft.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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BillWoodruff wrote:
I think your post might have turned into an excellent discussion
I think it already has ;)
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
I think it already has ;)
For me, the discussion, to date, has been trivial, beating the same-old dead-horse of "which is more evil, MS or Apple," and will rapidly submerge in the Lounge-Swamp, where so much interesting technical content, that should go onto an appropriate technical forum, unfortunately, submerges (with the technical forums, in these cases, diluted in value). imho, the issue of what Windows devs are doing now, or may be able to do in the near future, to port existing, or create new, apps, using MS tools, that will run within IOS, or Android, performantly, is quite significant, and germane to MS devs' future in the mobile/small-form-factor phone/tablet/ultrabook touch-driven ... blah blah blah ... domain now so dominated at the high-end by Apple, and, in terms of sheer number of devices shipped, by Android: a topic worthy of its own Forum. But, I believe I've already expressed, several times, on the "Suggestions" Forum, my opinion that the Lounge needs the equivalent of a good old-fashioned Stalinist purge: Ooh, hey, here's a thought: let's have a forum called "Siberia," where all stale jokes posted on the Lounge are "exiled," as well as "gimme codez," and other totally inane posts, drunken fugal (in the psychiatric sense of that term) rambling, etc. go ! That some (many ?) of my own posts on the Lounge would certainly be subject to deportation to this "Gulag:" has crossed my mind. :) best, Bill
"When it comes to atoms, language can be used only as in poetry. The poet, too, is not nearly so concerned with describing facts as with creating images." Niels Bohr
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Chris Maunder wrote:
I think it already has ;)
For me, the discussion, to date, has been trivial, beating the same-old dead-horse of "which is more evil, MS or Apple," and will rapidly submerge in the Lounge-Swamp, where so much interesting technical content, that should go onto an appropriate technical forum, unfortunately, submerges (with the technical forums, in these cases, diluted in value). imho, the issue of what Windows devs are doing now, or may be able to do in the near future, to port existing, or create new, apps, using MS tools, that will run within IOS, or Android, performantly, is quite significant, and germane to MS devs' future in the mobile/small-form-factor phone/tablet/ultrabook touch-driven ... blah blah blah ... domain now so dominated at the high-end by Apple, and, in terms of sheer number of devices shipped, by Android: a topic worthy of its own Forum. But, I believe I've already expressed, several times, on the "Suggestions" Forum, my opinion that the Lounge needs the equivalent of a good old-fashioned Stalinist purge: Ooh, hey, here's a thought: let's have a forum called "Siberia," where all stale jokes posted on the Lounge are "exiled," as well as "gimme codez," and other totally inane posts, drunken fugal (in the psychiatric sense of that term) rambling, etc. go ! That some (many ?) of my own posts on the Lounge would certainly be subject to deportation to this "Gulag:" has crossed my mind. :) best, Bill
"When it comes to atoms, language can be used only as in poetry. The poet, too, is not nearly so concerned with describing facts as with creating images." Niels Bohr
Ah - then we get to enjoy everyone complaining about the Thought Police. We already have The Soapbox for the ramblings and ravings, and The Back Room. The only way a purge would work is if we had many, many moderators constantly working to sort and filter. And that in itself is a tricky endeavour because the decision as to whether a thread is suited best for one forum or another is very subjective. People want to post where they think their post will most likely be read. So, they gravitate to the most popular, vaguely relevant forum and it becomes a battle of constant moderation. It's not impossible, but it sounds tiring. Maybe I just give everyone a "Nuke Thread" token and each week you can nuke a thread you think shouldn't exist. No holds barred.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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Ah - then we get to enjoy everyone complaining about the Thought Police. We already have The Soapbox for the ramblings and ravings, and The Back Room. The only way a purge would work is if we had many, many moderators constantly working to sort and filter. And that in itself is a tricky endeavour because the decision as to whether a thread is suited best for one forum or another is very subjective. People want to post where they think their post will most likely be read. So, they gravitate to the most popular, vaguely relevant forum and it becomes a battle of constant moderation. It's not impossible, but it sounds tiring. Maybe I just give everyone a "Nuke Thread" token and each week you can nuke a thread you think shouldn't exist. No holds barred.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
Maybe I just give everyone a "Nuke Thread" token and each week you can nuke a thread you think shouldn't exist. No holds barred.
Glad to see you thinking "out of the box" here Chris: the "Nuke Thread" concept seems like the opposite of "Weapons of Mass Destruction:" a one-shot weapon of individual destruction ? :) But, I think there is an alternative: let the members vote and "winnow-out" messages that probably should be moved: put a third item in the "Report" drop-down: "Wrong Forum:" a Lounge message gets some number of that category of Reports, then let some members with very high-reps, or CP staff, decide where the messages should be moved, or: leave the message in place on the Lounge and copy it over to the appropriate technical Forum so it enriches the technical Fora. I think that's consistent with your principles and values on CP, as I experience them, and avoids the "thought police" issue. best, Bill
"When it comes to atoms, language can be used only as in poetry. The poet, too, is not nearly so concerned with describing facts as with creating images." Niels Bohr
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jschell wrote:
But if you want to participate in that market then you must pass the Apple censorship
Oh dear. Have you looked at how the Windows App store works? Or the Intel store? Or the moves Google is making to try and clean up the mess that is their store? I'm all for hearty debate, but we shouldn't have one yardstick for one company and another yard stick for another. It's funny, but it seems Apple is the new Microsoft.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
Have you looked at how the Windows App store works? Or the Intel store? Or the moves Google is making to try and clean up the mess that is their store?
Pretty sure that I can buy android apps and run them without having them pass through one single vendors non-technical filter.
Chris Maunder wrote:
It's funny, but it seems Apple is the new Microsoft.
I didn't say I was condemning the company - I said I didn't like their policy in regards to this. And other than that I don't engage in emotional condemnations of companies based on specific policies. True for Apple and true for Microsoft.
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That's not how I've observed voting occur in these forums. But then that's how it's in real life too.
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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I grant you that it is sometimes abused. But in this case, I think it was used correctly. P.S. I didn't downvote as I was clever enough to deduce from the title of the sticky that it was something I wasn't bothered about so didn't click it.
TPFKAPB wrote:
I didn't downvote as I was clever enough to deduce from the title of the sticky that it was something I wasn't bothered about so didn't click it.
Wish more people did that.
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com